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Turf wars between new Avionics and F-402C

Jvon811

Well Known Member
I'm in the early stages of designing and building a new panel for my -4. This is what I've dreamed up and skillfully laid out in the most technical manner...

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It's recently come to my attention that there's a part of the F-402 bulkhead behind where I'd like my 430/327 radios to go. F-402C goes right behind the panel, across the width of the fuselage.

How are others getting around this? Has anyone modified F-402C? Has anyone ever moved it? Is it just something that everybody is building around? It's really limiting me on placement of my radios...

p.s. Yes, I've seen panels with radios mounted between the pilots legs... I'm trying to avoid that at all costs because I have a firewall mounted battery and some really awesome cabin heat I don't want to modify (or cook the radios).

-Justin
 
Bottom line is you should not modify F402C, this forces you to keep the long radios higher in the panel.
 
Thanks Walt,

I saw your response in the other thread too. By the looks of your signature, you've got a bit more experience with the panel rebuilds than I do and I appreciate the input. I think I'm just going to see how high on the panel I have to move the 430/327 to clear 402C and if I have to delete my backup Altimeter and Airspeed, so be it. It's a VFR+ panel anyways. Not going to be intended for any IMC work.
 
Thanks Walt,

I saw your response in the other thread too. By the looks of your signature, you've got a bit more experience with the panel rebuilds than I do and I appreciate the input. I think I'm just going to see how high on the panel I have to move the 430/327 to clear 402C and if I have to delete my backup Altimeter and Airspeed, so be it. It's a VFR+ panel anyways. Not going to be intended for any IMC work.

Not sure why you would waste the space, add the additional weight, along with the cost of updates of a 430 if you're not going to use it for IFR. I have a couple of examples of nice RV4 VFR panels on my site. My advice would be sell the 430 and invest those dollars in some updated glass.

http://www.expaircraft.com/Avionics.htm
 
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Well... because in truthfulness, it's what I've got. I'm slowly working towards an all IFR panel but my airplane doesn't have a heated pitot tube, the wingtips were (I assume) epoxied on after being screwed on (so I can't easily install the NAV antenna yet), the hole in my panel design underneath the GRT EFIS was for some sort of back up artificial horizon someday (funds permitting), and a multitude of other things I'd like fixed before going full blown IFR.

I fly jets for a living so I get my share of Instrument flying there. And if I really need to travel somewhere, the RV stays at home and I can jumpseat on the airlines. This panel is for if I do travel and there's an OVC layer at my destination but 1000' ceilings? I'll be able to do that, no worries. That's why I call it my VFR+ panel.


p.s. Do you build custom wiring harnesses at EXP Aircraft? I can email you or call on the phone if you'd like a formal process started. I called Stein yesterday and was rather unimpressed with the price he quoted me for a seemingly simple panel.
 
Hey its your aiplane but going thru all hard work and expense of a panel upgrade then using outdated equipment just doesn't make sense to me as you haven't increased the value of the airplane after all that effort.

I appreciate the inquiry but I only do in house panel upgrades. If you didn't like Stein's price I can pretty much guarantee you won't like mine either :eek:
 
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Adding to what Walt wrote- harnesses are all about the labor, lots of it. I've built several myself in the last few years, including a new panel in an RV-4 (which had previously had F-402C notched for a radio, though I wouldn't do it myself). I work fast, but having added up the hours, no way can I compete with SteinAir. I recommend to customers that they get as much of a harness built by them as possible.
 
Building the harnesses is half the fun.
Just get the tools off eBay (DMC Daniels). They aren't too bad if you do some searching.
Or go for the Steinair tools.

There are guys out there that will draw your installation up for you.
Then you just follow the drawings as you go.

Let me know if you need some pointers. Im better at avionic than metal(and fibreglass) :)
 
I would hide the EIS since it is redundant and use 2 1/4" backup gauges. That's what I am doing on my 4.
 
Building the harnesses is half the fun.
Just get the tools off eBay (DMC Daniels). They aren't too bad if you do some searching.
Or go for the Steinair tools.

There are guys out there that will draw your installation up for you.
Then you just follow the drawings as you go.

Let me know if you need some pointers. Im better at avionic than metal(and fibreglass) :)

I know that Stein and others build beautiful harnesses, but if the cost surprises you like it did me, it really is not hard to build your own - just time consuming. It's just a bunch of single wires. Buy a few tools and practice. Then measure three times, label everything, use service loops, test all connections before installation, and off you go.

My time wasn't worth enough to pay somebody else to do it for me, but I'm a fireman, so your hourly rate may be different :D

Chris
 
Panel brace

Justin,
I dropped mine to allow for radio and transponder.
You?ll need to check for leg room if your tall. I really need to move my seat back about 1-1/2?
Here?s my layout and a pick with the instruments in- the carbon fiber switch panel just sits in front of the dropped brace and flushed it with the front of the panel. Hope this helps with decisions.
2uf505k.jpg

x6dhli.jpg

351cpwp.jpg
 
wiring

Approach Stack install pro hub and they make harness for your radio and EFIS or any other acc.When you up grade in the future makes it easy.Good people.
Bob
 
Ditto on dump the EIS, it?s redundant. You?ll punch buttons on it only to tweak ?flow-cal? during calibrations.
However some of them report airspeed/altimeter, if so you may want that back up
Tim Andres
 
ok slightly off topic but your complaint about 402C puzzled me. I looked at my project (I bought it at something near the QB stage) and there IS NO 402C. There it is on the plans, but not on the airplane. So thank you for bringing this to my attention :eek:
 
Plans keep changing...

I appreciate everybody's input and I've decided that F-402C is probably left unchanged. I'm not and engineer and certainly not a Test Pilot so we'll just leave it as is... My latest ideas have all been above "The 402C Line". I think letting the radio trays sit on 402C for support is probably easier than modifying anything. I am familiar with the use and operation of the equipment I have already, and I like that the EIS is visible as a back up if the EFIS fails.

But I'm sure that's a whole other conversation on reliability, failure rates, blah blah blah... In 7000+ hours of flying, I've never had a (or what felt like a) serious problem and I'd like to further mitigate that by somewhat planning for the unexpected.

Anyways, design/build/modify/steal/purchase some sort of battery redundancy to the Gemini ADI and EIS, and that's the minimum I'd need to get to the ground in a big problem. Or turn around and find VMC conditions.

Again, thanks for everyone's input.

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p.s. It also looks like I'll be learning to build a wiring harness. My goal is to fly to SnF 2018 so I'd better hop to!
 
p.s. It also looks like I'll be learning to build a wiring harness. My goal is to fly to SnF 2018 so I'd better hop to!

The Garmin manuals have some good explanations on how to make the harnesses.

Or you just continue asking in this thread and we will try to help you out.
 
Look at the links in my signature. I have pics in there that will be helpfull.

I dont have that piece installed. I did however, work out a different solution.
 
EIS

I would hide the EIS since it is redundant and use 2 1/4" backup gauges. That's what I am doing on my 4.

While I understand that panel space in the -4 is even more of a premium than the -8, I will say that I have my EIS in the panel and I'm really happy that I do. It provides nearly instantaneous display of engine parameters after startup while I'm waiting for the EFIS to boot, and it allows me to monitor certain things that may not always be displayed on the EFIS. In addition, I find it very convenient for resetting/adjusting total fuel quantity after fill-up. I have mine back-mounted to the panel:

DSC_2832small.JPG


Skylor
RV-8
 
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