What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Navworx , back in business?

A little over 2 weeks to Oshkosh, where Navworx will be attending.
Still nothing on their website about addressing a fix for the EXP box.

I hope they're working on some sort of resolution for all us potential orphans out there.
 
roadrunner20 said:
A little over 2 weeks to Oshkosh, where Navworx will be attending.
Still nothing on their website about addressing a fix for the EXP box.

I hope they're working on some sort of resolution for all us potential orphans out there.
Click to expand...

If they are not, it might be a bit of an ugly scene there at Oshkosh.
 
I have heard complimentary rumors from two different sources regarding a fix for the EXP. So it appears that there will be one, but the exact plans and details are not yet public.

Regardless, an ugly scene at Oshkosh is essentially unavoidable at this point, but skipping the show would be even worse for the company. My crystal ball says that the situation will turn around, but that might not happen until after Oshkosh.
 
One of the rumors out there is a software update to set SIL=1 to handle the immediate compliance. Secondly, to have a $300 inline gps box to address the reporting issues going forward.
I suspect the SIL=1 will still enable the rebroadcast of TIS-B.
 
DavidBunin said:
I have heard complimentary rumors from two different sources regarding a fix for the EXP. So it appears that there will be one, but the exact plans and details are not yet public.

Regardless, an ugly scene at Oshkosh is essentially unavoidable at this point, but skipping the show would be even worse for the company. My crystal ball says that the situation will turn around, but that might not happen until after Oshkosh.
Click to expand...

Navworx MUST let the EXP owners what will be happening whether or not there is an additional cost for an approved GPS source or not. Otherwise in the experimental community Navworx is burnt toast. Don't think there will be an ugly scene unless Navworx comes clean and lets the EXP user what is happening. Navworx needs someone that can help help with company PR. To date they seem not to care.
 
Fix

I spoke with Bill Moffitt. I was told Navworx will be making an announcement on the EXP fix. A software update as well as a $299.00 hardware GPS (FAA approved) to be attached atop of the Exp box. The GPS will have a serial out feed that could be tied into an EFIS as an external GPS source.
 
agirard7a said:
I spoke with Bill Moffitt. I was told Navworx will be making an announcement on the EXP fix. A software update as well as a $299.00 hardware GPS (FAA approved) to be attached atop of the Exp box. The GPS will have a serial out feed that could be tied into an EFIS as an external GPS source.
Click to expand...

So how many units are out there? 1000?=2000?=3000?? $300,000 $600,000-$900,000
Not to shabby for NaxWorx! If it happens
 
The AD claimed only 800 units total were affected. Of course the AD also claimed the cheapest way of compliance was to just disconnect the navworx box.
 
Thanks, I was told just a few days ago they had not issued the AD yet, guess I ought to look for myself next time.
Tim
 
I will be awaiting the announcement on the EXP fix. If the answer is an approved piggyback receiver than my two questions would be:

1. Will the 1090 in receiver internal hardware finally get the promised software to make it functional?

2. As per BM at the time of install I have a non WAAS Garmin antenna mounted and feeding my EXP. Will I also have to pay for a WAAS antenna upgrade which would add another 300 or so dollars?


Don Bodnar
 
tim2542 said:
Thanks, I was told just a few days ago they had not issued the AD yet, guess I ought to look for myself next time.
Tim
Click to expand...

The good news is we have 6 months to comply. I'm just flying it until then. I'll be deployed for most of it so I'll worry about it when I get back.
 
Delta Bravo said:
1. Will the 1090 in receiver internal hardware finally get the promised software to make it functional?

2. As per BM at the time of install I have a non WAAS Garmin antenna mounted and feeding my EXP. Will I also have to pay for a WAAS antenna upgrade which would add another 300 or so dollars?
Click to expand...

Disclaimer: Answers below are based on nothing more than my own imagination...

1) I still think it will happen "finally" someday. I just don't know when that day will come. I don't think they're taking that on under the current initiative, so I continue to look forward to it in a future software (but before 2020).

2) The certified system works with the Garmin non-WAAS antenna, so I don't see why this new version would differ in that respect. NavWorx always considered their ability to use that old antenna as a point of pride and marketing advantage.

David
 
DavidBunin;Disclaimer: Answers below are based on nothing more than my own imagination...

1) I still think it will happen "finally" someday. I just don't know when that day will come. I don't think they're taking that on under the current initiative, so I continue to look forward to it in a future software (but before 2020).
Click to expand...

So is this just another promise that was made and BTW I believe money was paid to NavWorx for this option. Will NavWorx refund the customer the amount paid

2) The certified system works with the Garmin non-WAAS antenna, so I don't see why this new version would differ in that respect. NavWorx always considered their ability to use that old antenna as a point of pride and marketing advantage.
Click to expand...

Then what is the rumored $299.00 add on update cost for really? Referring to an earlier post regarding the EXP version
 
Gps

The $299.00 was for an additional "Faa approved" gps.
To make the system"2020" compatible. That in combination of a software update. I would hope that would be the only
Additional hardware cost for the EXP. I seriously doubt there whould be additional costs for an antenna.
 
Is Navworx still alive?

The AD has been a reality for over a month and still Navworx refers to it on their opening page of their website as the "proposed" AD. Back in the spring my Navworx's wi-fi went out. I called Scott Edwards about it and sent it to him. It came back promptly with no documents or comments--just the unit in a box. But at least it works again. I am curious to know if any Navworx victim has done the hardware mod that the AD calls for, or the software change. I would like to do the software mod which ostensibly will keep the unit legally ops until 1/1/2020 but I have no idea how to do that and Navworx isn't providing that information. As to the hardware mod, I think I'll hold off until I'm more sure that I won't be throwing good money after bad. I need to hear how others with this problem are handing it.
 
Software update

The software update is not available yet - that I know of....
There are a number of issues that are promised to be resolved in the software upgrade - the second display port being the primary touted fix that I know of...there's also the SL-70 control head functionality issue that I am working with Bill on - I am fairly certain that he has replicated the issue and understands that it is not functioning as necessary...the changes required by the AD also need to be in there prior to the deadline date.

Some of us are working on AMOC's which will allow us to keep running even after the AD deadline - but the broke stuff needing the software update is still out there!
 
Alan Cockrell said:
The AD has been a reality for over a month and still Navworx refers to it on their opening page of their website as the "proposed" AD.
Click to expand...

It is true that NavWorx is not focused on their web site (or frankly on communication in general*). What they ARE focused on is getting the solutions certified as quickly as possible so that their customers have the most of the remaining interval possible to install whichever solution they choose.

Of course "quickly" in this case is at the whim of the FAA.

Right now, I'm sure the NavWorx team is busy packing a suitcase for Oshkosh.

* The customer communications piece was assumed by Dallas Avionics, but they seem overwhelmed with it for now. They are used to being a wholesaler and working with dealerships. I think working directly with the end-user customers has been a learning curve for them.
 
SIL change?

So what happens to my functionality if and when I change the 600EXP to SIL-1? Does the unit then become like a portable receiver that gets FIS-B weather from ADS-B towers and traffic from nearby ADS-B emitters? Will it transmit anything?
 
We have 6 months for compliance. Don't do anything rash yet and lose the functionality. Hopefully by that time a fix will be out
 
Alan Cockrell said:
Oops. reviewing the AD it will require a change to SIL-0. Same question though about functionality.
Click to expand...

SIL-0 means you won't get traffic. That takes you back to where the problem started when the FAA changed the rules and decided not to broadcast traffic to SIL-0. I don't know why their rule change keeps getting overlooked as the source of the problem. When I purchased I could get traffic with a non-2020 unit, i.e. SIL-0. Then the FAA changed their mind. Why?
 
gyoung said:
SIL-0 means you won't get traffic. That takes you back to where the problem started when the FAA changed the rules and decided not to broadcast traffic to SIL-0. I don't know why their rule change keeps getting overlooked as the source of the problem. When I purchased I could get traffic with a non-2020 unit, i.e. SIL-0. Then the FAA changed their mind. Why?
Click to expand...

If the FAA was really concerned about safety as they say, all traffic would be broadcast all the time...even without you having to have 978 adsb out. I see it as them punishing people unless they updated.

The other thing I've noticed while flying the rv(no adsb out) vs my other plane(navworx adsb) is I will see a full picture when the navworx is pinging the towers on the 978uat freq. However for all of the other planes with adsb out squawking 1090ES they don't trigger the towers. So even though they are adsb out, they won't get the full picture either if they are using adsb-in
 
Timberwolf said:
If the FAA was really concerned about safety as they say, all traffic would be broadcast all the time...even without you having to have 978 adsb out. I see it as them punishing people unless they updated.

The other thing I've noticed while flying the rv(no adsb out) vs my other plane(navworx adsb) is I will see a full picture when the navworx is pinging the towers on the 978uat freq. However for all of the other planes with adsb out squawking 1090ES they don't trigger the towers. So even though they are adsb out, they won't get the full picture either if they are using adsb-in
Click to expand...


The 1090ES solution won't trigger a ground station to send traffic unless the triggering aircraft is equipped with ADS-B In, and is configured properly. The transmitting aircraft has to tell the system that it is equipped to receive ADS-B In / TIS-B in order for the ground station to rebroadcast traffic info.
 
Last edited:
https://www.dallasavionics.com/cgi-bin/navworx.cgi?faction=ads600exp

Friend is in this boat.. can't get any answer.. email phone.. nothing.. as others have experienced..


Experimental Aircraft ADS-600EXP System:

In order for Experimental Aircraft with our ADS-600EXP Systems to comply with AD all Systems must update software to new revision (when released anticipate 8/15/17) and must install EXP GPS Module (we anticipate to begin to take orders 8/7/17 and begin shipping in 8/15/17).

GPS Module Price is $299.00

GPS module will install in aircraft and will not require any additional wiring changes. Module will be "Daisy Chained in Series" with existing system utilizing existing EXP system wiring and connectors.

All orders will be through Dallas Avionics, Inc. Orders will be accepted on 8/7/17.

Note: Experimental owners with ADS-600B System must comply with ADS-600B criteria.
 
Its OSH week, perhaps they are traveling or just swamped.
It's hard to suggest patience at this point, but I think we need to have some.
There is movement, a fix is in place, and we have lots of time to comply with the AD.
I think we're fortunate Navworx is still in business at this point.
Tim
 
travel

Scott Edwards is on his way to Oshkosh. I think he wore out his iphone... in the last few months. Maybe there will be a show special for "tech support" proof phones somewhere on the grounds. He shared a preview of the .pdf explaining the upgrade to EXP version. No antenna change needed according to Scott. Photo shows a piggy back aluminum box attached to the top of the original unit.
Dallas IS actually a distributor. It is out of the norm to be published as the go to guy for a manufacturer for Dallas Avionics. Scott is trying hard to meet customer expectations in this unprediced circumstance. Time will tell, how it all turns out.
 
Any reports from Osh-17 on NavWorx/Dallas Avionics would be greatly appreciated. I expect there will be a lot going on there - a bunch of us are interested in the upcoming software update!
 
I was at the ,NavWorx booth at 0900 this morning & talked to Dave, Bethany & Scott Edwards.
They do have a $299 solution. Orders to be taken 2nd week of August with deliveries in 2-4 weeks. Payment is not required at the time of order.
Basically you attach the small box onto the existing unit jumping the 9 pin connector. The output 9 pin from the new box has the same pin assignments so it's basically, plug & play.
I'll post a picture later as I'm on my phone posting now.
 
Oh, the software update sets SIL=0.
We don't want to do that.
No software update is required with the new box.

Bill was there, but I did not talk to him.
If others have specific questions, let me know & I will try and get an answer for you.
 
Last edited:
New SB's posted on their website

Service Bulletins for the 200-0012, 200-0013, and EXP units are now up on the website. I have downloaded both. The SB's reference software that is not posted yet.

Dan,
Here's a couple of questions for them....

When will the software be available on the website?
Does the new software still transmit SIL=3 for systems configured with external GPS source (430W, etc -> getting AMOC)?
When will the Display Port 2 issue software fix be released?
When will the SL-70 control head issue software fix be released?

If they ask - you can use my name!
 
Last edited:
I talked with Scott Edwards this afternoon regarding unfulfilled 600 EXP orders since last August.
Orders will be shipped by late August with "black box" that has transmond device internal.
That is good news if it comes to pass.
 
I think I'm good with the suggested fix if Navworx can come thru with it . I'm also good with the $300 if that can happen as advertised. Mine is one of the early ones. It may could have been done without all the turbulence but the Navworx 600EXP continues to work flawless for me. I get good traffic reporting and weather for VFR flying even though it apparently doesn't have 1090 ie Dual Band. I would hope that comes with some of the hardware or software upgrades. Sounds like the mod is going to be easy, And I don't have to rip out and replace. I'll support Navworx if they continue to work to pull this one out. The fact that they are present at OSH gives me some confidence.
 
Day one at Oshkosh was busy. We were three-deep with people at the booth most of the day. Thank you guys for coming to see us. We look forward to speaking with you all week.
 
How about some sort of info release

David,

How about some sort of press release - highlights, future time-frames for software and features. A bunch of questions have been posed - mostly relevant to the new SB and upcoming software release to remediate the AD.....

Those of us that couldn't go are anxious to hear some positive information!

Thanks,
 
Ralph, I believe there is the service bulletin I saw on the Navworx site which provides a bit more info as to dates for orders accepted and orders delivered on the EXP 600 fix . Think that's where I saw it.
 
Yup - I got the two service bulletins downloaded already...they leave so many questions un-answered...yes, we asked them after the SB's came out...
 
If you look at the government website where they requested public comments on the proposed AD, it does show how the requirements were changed...initially, they would respond to all requests then they said this box has to be SIL=0, then they said we won't respond to SIL=0...or something like that....
 
dtw_rv6 said:
David

Navworx position yesterday at the booth was that the FAA made the EXP box non compliant by changing the regs. I have found no evidence to support that in the revision history. Can you explain what changed? Specific regulatory citations would be very helpful in convincing us that Navworx is really a victim of the FAA.

Don
Click to expand...

In my experience, some of the regional offices (FSDO, mido) are horribly out of touch with official policy coming out of HQ in Washington. Yet they talk as if their words are gospel. I can cite several examples if you like. For something as serious as TSO compliance it is imperative that the manufacturer makes sure HQ is involved in the loop. It's too easy for one FSDO guy to say one thing, while HQ is saying something different. You know who will win in the end. Whose fault is this? I'd say the FAA doesn't have its house in order. But the reality is that large companies hire experienced help just to guide them thru the maze.
 
recapen said:
Yup - I got the two service bulletins downloaded already...they leave so many questions un-answered...yes, we asked them after the SB's came out...
Click to expand...

Ralph, the response was to check out the SBs as they didn't have anymore info.
Much of the delay is waiting on the approvals from the FAA.
 
DennisRhodes said:
And Dan , add one more please. Will the software/ hardware be included for the 1090 receive .? Thanks
Click to expand...

Talked to David & Bethany, the delay is based on the approvals coming from the FAA.

This is the reason a date has been difficult to publish. On approval, the updates will be released. As explained to me, the 1090ES data stream comes in packets to be assembled. The UAT broadcasts in a distinct data stream & parsed.

Please, Don't beat me up on this high level simplistic explanation.
 
Last edited:
THANKS DAN!

We appreciate your efforts! Communication has not been a strong suit for this conflagration...thanks for your intermediation!

Yes, we're a tough crowd - happens when you find out you may have bought an expensive paperweight!

Hopefully, my AMOC will come through soon and I will gain a little independence - and the ability to run past July and 2020!

Don't get me wrong, I want them to succeed - against the likes of Garmin that abandons their acquisitions...they remind me of JPI and Vision MicroSystems!

Again, thanks Dan and all others relaying info from the booth @ Osh-17!
 
recapen said:
How about some sort of press release - highlights, future time-frames for software and features. A bunch of questions have been posed - mostly relevant to the new SB and upcoming software release to remediate the AD.....

Those of us that couldn't go are anxious to hear some positive information!
Click to expand...

I don't have the authority to give an official press release. Come to think of it, I simply don't have any authority at all. I'm nothing. Just a spouse of an employee. For the most part, I am a concerned customer, just like every other participant here. I don't have a playbill, and I certainly don't have the script. The only unique thing I have over anybody else, is a seat with a slightly better view of the stage. And in some aspects, even that is debatable.

So if you're offering me a 'penny for my thoughts' I am happy to oblige, and that penny is about all they're worth. Here is what I think I know...

For existing EXP installations:
There will be a software available (6.0) soon. That software will bring the SIL down to 1. The 1 means you are still a client of the network and receiving all traffic services, but you are not 2020-compliant. Apparently the FAA is okay with this. Disclaimer: I don't know if that means they will accept it as an AMOC for the AD which says to move to a SIL of 0, or if they are simply okay with it in the interim to the compliance date.

There will be a software available (7.0) later. That software will work in combination with the add-on certified GPS to bring the SIL back up to 3 and make everything kosher for 2020. When is later? I can't tell. But I can guess that it will be after the certification is in hand for the add-on GPS and before the compliance date for the AD comes to pass.

If it was my cat, I would do nothing until either software 7.0 is available or until the AD compliance date draws near.

For new EXP installations:
The Gen 2.0 EXP unit will have the same form-factor as the certified unit, but (naturally) a lower price.

For new ADS600-B installations:
FAA approval (such that expectations can exist) is expected in August. Once certification is in hand, the production line will spool up. For the sake of simplicity, the company line here at Oshkosh is, "Certification in August, product shipping in September." Of course, there is a backlog and of course initial production is bound to have some unforeseen snag. So my crystal ball says that the company will transition from initial production into full-steam volume production in the month of October. Purely my guess, not a commitment to anybody on the part of NavWorx.

One the production line is humming, the company can flex it left, right, or center to emphasize new production or EXP upgrades or certified unit upgrades. Which brings me to...

For existing ADS600-B installations there are several paths forward:
1) There will be a global AMOC (or three?) that allow the unit to be slaved to an external certified GPS. From what I've read (mostly here) all of the major brands and models will have coverage. With an external certified GPS and the AMOC, the system can continue to broadcast a SIL of 3.

2a) There will be an upgrade program to install the newly certified GPS into an existing unit. It won't be free, but it isn't very expensive either. It is below the company's cost, so we bleed a little and they bleed a little. Reminds me of an expression: the goal of democracy is not to make anybody happy. The goal of democracy is to try to ensure an even and equal level of unhappiness across the population.

2b) For those who want to avail themselves of some of the new and novel features of the Gen 2.0 box there will be a more extensive upgrade program. The cost will be slightly higher than option 2a, but not dramatically so.

New and novel Gen 2.0 features:
Internal TransMON function
Internal WiFi
USB Maintenance Console connection (no more serial port adapters, yay!)
Simplified configuration process

All of the new certified units will have software 5.0. This software will auto-detect much of the aircraft configuration that was done manually until now. The unit will self-detect if it is connected to an external certified GPS, or if it needs to use the internal GPS. The unit will self-detect if it is connected to digital data for the squawk code and barometric altitude, or if it needs to use the internal TransMON. For the digital interfaces, it will auto-detect baud rates.

Software 5.0 will include anonymous mode when squawking 1200.

All units will come with the hardware to receive 1090MHz, but the software to process the 1090 piecemeal data is still in the future. Just too much to tackle in this software release. (I am just as bummed as you are.) The good news is that once the dust settles on this chapter in the company's history, I think the biggest remaining customer noise will be for the dual-band functionality. So that's why I still think I will have it in my airplane some day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top