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RV 14 Plan "Gottchas"

Correct.

Think of the one j-stiffener as acting as a shim for the other to account for the step off of the underlaped main wing skin.

Ooops, that one is going to be interesting to fix... Vans support must have missed it when they saw my pictures of a problem I had with the nesting months ago. Hmmmm. Wonder how many rivets I will have to drill out here to get this flipped around. That one may qualify as a gotcha. Edit: Rereading the step again I think I will add to this to the spreadsheet. The sequencing of the riveting is intended to steer you to the correct outcome but despite that I misinterpreted "top" to mean on top as viewed from the open side rather than top relative to the top skin, the same as Control was asking.. I sent an email to Vans support, but assuming I will need to fix this, it does look like all the rivets for the short piece are going to need to be removed :(

Edit again: I added it to the sheet, Ken responded via support telling me I could leave it as is, it is not a structural issue, I may want to consider a shim if there is a ripple is on the outside skin as a result of the small gap.
 
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DWG 38-04 pending revision

In step 6, the text inadvertently directs builders to install screws in the roll bar using Thread locker.

Thread locker products should not be used anywhere near the acrylic canopy material.

A revision of the method of sealing the canopy (step 5) will also be part of the pending revision.
I suggest builders delay installing the rear window until the revision has been released (it is actually best to delay it as long as possible during the build for improved access into the tail cone area, etc.).
 
13-02, Steps 1 and 2.
This one snagged me, cut the wrong j-channels even though I reviewed the Gotcha's spreadsheet I missed the warning. Notice that 13-02 is still "Rev 0"; it would not have been a whole lot of trouble for Van's to add text in the two sentences Steps 1 and 2 that instruct 'by cutting two pieces of j-channel', to clarify just a little bit and add a qualifier to use the appropriate long 8' stock or the shorter 6' stock for each step. The mentioning of 'Long' and 'Short' in the steps led me to cut the shorter pieces from the short stock, that was wrong.

Have to get replacements now. Parts aren't too expensive, shipping is not cheap.

edit (8/21/15)> Received the j-channels already via USPS Priority. Just ordered them on Wednesday, came all the way from west coast to SC pretty fast. 32 LF of j-channel 6' and 8' pieces packed really well in a PVC pipe tube with end caps. And, shipping wasn't as high as I thought it would be ($24). Thank you Van's.
 
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Want to confirm countersinking some spar flange holes

PAGE 13-03, FIGURE 2 DETAIL >>



The two leader notes point at 6 holes and 1 hole at the forward edge of the flange, and each note instructs to "countersink 12 x #40 holes 12 holes top and bottom, and "2 x #40 holes top and bottom".

Does this mean to countersink a grand total of 12- and 2- #40 holes in each top and bottom flange spar (the forward holes only as the leader note arrows indicates) ?

OR, to countersink a grand total of 24- and 4- holes in each spar being 12- and 2- holes in each of the top and bottom flanges (that being both the forward and aft #40 holes in both top and bottom flanges) ?

My guess is to just countersink the 6- and 1- forward holes in both the top and bottom flanges, but I want to be sure.
 
Your guess is right. CS the top 7 and bottom 7 for a total of 14. Another simple way to do it is to CS all #40 holes. If it is for a nutplate, CS for a rivet. If it is not for a nutplate, CS for a dimpled skin.
 
Helicooper>>

You are saying to CS ALL #40 holes? Including the aft flange edge #40 holes too for skin rivets? Is that in the plans anywhere?
 
I scratched my head at this step too. But if you read forward through the section, you will find that all the #40 holes have to be C/S. And that it is flush for the nut plate attachments and deeper to take a skin dimple on the other ones. Once you read the three pages you will see it's true. Get a marker and mark out what you would do and see if it isn't so. Red for flush, blue for deeper, or some such.
 
It's defined Page 13-03, step 7

I just saw it. Step 7 says to CS all the remaining #40 holes. So after CS'ing all the called-out nutplate holes, to then CS all remaining #40 holes would mean ALL #40 holes in the flanges get CS'ed. It takes a bit of study.

Like finding Waldo.
 
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Indicated dimensions for drill holes?? 21-02, Step 4

'Control' >>

I'm glad you brought it up.

I can not decipher what these dimensions indicate for the four holes depicted on the joggled flange of the L-hinge bracket.



The two dimensions shown describe one hole to be drilled 3/8" from the bottom end and the two holes drilled 1 3/32" apart at the top end. The diagram indicates that four holes are approximately equal distance apart and the "2X" at the start of both don't make sense to me. There is no dimension shown for the space between the second from top and the third one and between the third and forth at the bottom. I generally take the "2X" to mean "2 holes" or "twice" the instruction. Here I am unsure what the dimensions should be.
 
I'm taking that to mean top and bottom holes 3/8 from the edge and the middle two holes 1 3/32 from the top and bottom holes' center.
 
I generally take the "2X" to mean "2 holes" or "twice" the instruction. Here I am unsure what the dimensions should be.

Your interpretation is actually correct.

2X (or 3 or 4, etc.) is used often to reduce clutter in the plans.

In this case it means holes are located twice on the part depicted, using this measurement.

The only thing that would work for the 2X 3/8"is for it to be the two end holes (each 3/8" from the end). Then the 2X 1 3/32" is to measure from each end hole to locate the other two holes. The space between the two middle holes then ends up being what ever it is.
 
Thanks guys, now that makes perfect sense. i couldn't get the gist applied to dimensioning but now it's clear.
 
Important Finish Kit plans revision issued....

The following E-mail should have been received by all RV-14 builders. Re-posting here in case anyone missed it.


ATTN:* All RV-14 Finish Kit Owners

Van's aircraft has updated the RV-14 plans pages to correct and clarify the window installation procedure in Section 38.

Please visit the Van's Aircraft Service Information and Revisions webpage for the latest versions of the RV-14 Plans Pages.


Be advised that this Plans page update has been posted to our website on 9-22-15. Please visit www.vansaircraft.com, click on Support, then Service Information and Revisions.

The most recent revisions to the RV-14 Plans Pages can always be found at http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv14.htm
 
Page 38-28; Figure 3

>> steel tube work table to work on canopy >>

would like to fabricate one.

please post the size/dimensions of the table you guys used to work on the canopy, and if you found that it needed to be sized a little differently to work better > post those dims.
 
I do not have the manual in front of me but when you drill out the eight nose wheel fairing mounting holes from #40 to #36 for tapping 6-32 do not drill the alum. mounting bracket #27 like I did then try tapping them 6-32. Drill them with a # 36 like the fairing. I do not know if Van's had a different # size for the alum. but clearly # 27 is not correct.
 
Added a cautionary note prior to wing installation. This will be reflected in the next plans page revision for page 41-03.
 
should there be a tool list added to this thread? Maybe as a spread sheet. There are lots of required tools that not only are not part of the "tools kits" from vendors, but also don't show up on the first page of the section where they are required.

For example:

25-02 requires a 0.311 reamer, which is not listed on 25-01.

And maybe put all the special tools required, even if listed in the beginning of the section.

Also put links to how to build certain things like the rib flange straightener. Not sure if this is a required tool, but certainly makes life much easier.
 
There are lots of required tools that not only are not part of the "tools kits" from vendors, but also don't show up on the first page of the section where they are required.

The list at the beginning of a section is an attempt to try and help builders plan ahead, but it was not meant to be comprehensive.

The official tool list is at the front of the manual (Section 3?). If a plans specified tool is not listed there, post it here and I will get it added during a revision cycle.
 
Rivet call-outs for LE skins attach to spar

>> NOTE: This issue was a misinterpretation (brain arthritis) on my part and was resolved in a few of the responses below, am leaving it because there are lessons here. < DR, remove if you feel it is not needed. >

Refer to page 17-06, figure 1, and page 17-08, figures 1 and 2.

Not a big 'gotcha' but I had to stop and think though it a bit to realize it was a minor shop drawing disconnect.

These diagrams indicate that the LE assemblies attach to the spar with all AD3-4 rivets. And, the diagrams showing the LE assemblies (17-06, fig1 and 17-08, fig2) presents the LE trailing edges not having a rivet that goes through the spar flanges at each rib; the spar (17-08, fig2) does show a rivet coinciding with the wing rib along the spar flange. The rivet call-out diagram (17-06, fig1) does not call for a rivet along the LE at each rib.

I went ahead and used AD3-4.5 rivets at these points as the 3-4 was a bit too short to fit the rivet gauge correctly for height and diameter of the shop head.
 
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Refer to page 17-06, figure 1, and page 17-08, figures 1 and 2.

Not a big 'gotcha' but I had to stop and think though it a bit to realize it was a minor shop drawing disconnect.

These diagrams indicate that the LE assemblies attach to the spar with all AD3-4 rivets. And, the diagrams showing the LE assemblies (17-06, fig1 and 17-08, fig2) presents the LE trailing edges not having a rivet that goes through the spar flanges at each rib; the spar (17-08, fig2) does show a rivet coinciding with the wing rib along the spar flange. The rivet call-out diagram (17-06, fig1) does not call for a rivet along the LE at each rib.

I went ahead and used AD3-4.5 rivets at these points as the 3-4 was a bit too short to fit the rivet gauge correctly for height and diameter of the shop head.

Your description is a bit confusing... using nose rib and main rib (or part #'s) would help.

The best I can gather is that when you wrote not having a rivet that goes through the spar flanges at each rib what you meant was not having a different rivet size specified for the locations where the rivet goes through the spar flange and the rib (because there is a rivet specified for those locations... they are all 3-4's)

As has been mentioned previously (and discussed most recently in THIS THREAD), and is described in paragraph 5.4 of Construction Manual Section 5,
the rivet gauges are sized for the general rule of thumb (1.5XD, .5XD, etc), and are not an absolute requirement.
The actual Mil Spec (the actual requirement)allows for smaller diam / thinner shop heads than the rule of thumb.
Sometimes the specified rivet may seem a bit short based on the rule of thumb, but it was specified because it will meet the MIL SPEC requirement, and because of a higher risk of clinching over the rivet if the next longer size is used.
If a builder chooses to use longer and can consistently install them with an acceptable quality shop head, that is fine.
 
now i'm more confused, but at a higher level

Your description is a bit confusing... using nose rib and main rib (or part #'s) would help.

Pages 17-06 and 08 only deal with the Leading Edge (nose ribs); that's pretty straight forward.

Straighten this out for me.

17-06 and 17-08 pages are Revision 0 and Revision 1 respectively and have not been updated in the recent revisions. The rivet callout diagram (17-08, fig 1) as best I can interpret it, does not show a rivet hole that corresponds to the rivet holes on my LE skins, the (nose) ribs, and the spar flanges. There are rivet holes in my LE skins that align with the rivet rows that are in the flanges of the LE (nose) ribs; this rivet then has to go through the LE skin + the spar flange, + the LE rib flange; this rivet I found is better to be an AD 3-4.5 rather than an AD3-4's that only go through the LE skin and the spar flange. Page 17-08, Figure 1 diagram shows one less rivet hole than there are actual holes in my spar flange and LE (nose) skins between each LE rib.

I do understand the tolerance that needs to be recognized using a rivet gauge. The AD3-4 used at the skin/spar flange/rib flange hole just ain't right squeezed to diameter (shop head way too flattened) or squeezed to height (shop head diameter too small) >> AD3-4.5 is way more better IMHO.

I may be missing something very basic, but I've looked closely again as your post has encouraged me to. I still think there is a disconnect in my interpretation or in the rivet callout diagram (17-08, fig 1). If the rivet callout diagram shows a rivet to insert in the spar flange that aligns with the rows of rivets in the LE (nose) ribs I just don't see it or I am so confused that I need to get straightened out on this.

I've been wrong about something just two other times in my life, this may be the third time.
 
There are rivet holes in my LE skins that align with the rivet rows that are in the flanges of the LE (nose) ribs; this rivet then has to go through the LE skin + the spar flange, + the LE rib flange;

None of the rivets that attach the outboard LE skin to the nose ribs, goes through the spar flanges.

Each main rib has two holes common to the spar flange (where it under laps the spar flange).
The aft of those two holes is common to the row of rivets along the fwd edge of the aft main skin, and the fwd of the two holes is common the the row of rivets along the aft edge of the LE skin.
 
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Finally, wrong for the third time in my life.

Well I'll be dipped in strawberries.

As many times as I have gone over this in the last two days - - I looked again with your last reply in hand, and I finally saw it.

I have been referring to the LE-to-spar flange rivet that goes through the forward rivet hole of the main wing rib's tab at the back side of the spar flange - and SEEING it as the rivet through the aft hole of the LE rib. Confused at a high level. Didn't see the trees for the forest.

The rivet callout does call for a AD3-4 through that hole, but an AD3-4.5 seemed to work better.

Thanks, rv_2002 for being patient enough to clear this up for me.
 
No problem.
And as I posted previously, a 3-4 rivet is spec'ed for those holes for the reasons detailed in plans Section 5 and does produce a shop head that meets the Mil Spec minimums, but a 3-4.5 is acceptable if you are able to get a good shop head.
 
re: Master List of Common Errors

I'm starting empennage for RV14a.

Reviewing RV14 master list of common errors ( link at beginning of Plan Gottchas thread), I'm confused by lines 18 and 19 in column A.
Seems subtitle is repeated instead of showing section & page number for VS...?

Anyone have insight into what pages these apply to ? Are these both 06-02?
 
I'm starting empennage for RV14a.

Reviewing RV14 master list of common errors ( link at beginning of Plan Gottchas thread), I'm confused by lines 18 and 19 in column A.
Seems subtitle is repeated instead of showing section & page number for VS...?

Anyone have insight into what pages these apply to ? Are these both 06-02?

Line 18. Is more of a heads up revision changes

Line 19 is referring to the powder coated hinge brackets (VS PP-410/412 on page 06-03). Its not really a gotcha, more like a "it would be a good idea" if you plan on painting them later. Basically why not prep them for paint before they're installed.
 
Section 26 heads up.....

Step 1 on 26-14 the plans call for breaking the back edge of the F-01484. But on page 26-11 step 6: it states to dimple all the #30 and #40 holes.

Breaking of the described edge on 26-14 should be done before dimpling on 26-11.
Plans will be revised....
 
Hey All

I got permission from VANS AIRCRAFT to share a linked construction drawing file with Y'all. These have ALL the threads from the RV 14 discussion threads embedded with hyperlinks in the individual construction drawing page where it matches the issue.
I am calling this the RV-14 WIKI

It lives here

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xu5p6f4l7tso79j/AABHaMhiVWFGoal2bU0ck0pJa?dl=0

First time users go to INSTRUCTIONS PDF
then the "General construction, Oop, and fixes PDF".

I continually tweak and update the WIKI. The best way to use it is "live of the web" second best download the section you are working on when you start that section.

The WIKI link is also in my signature on other RV-14 posts.

Pete
 
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Ailerons 22-05, Step 6

This is not because the plans aren't correct.

The plans are correct here but it got me because I didn't follow the plans as written, reading into them something that wasn't there. FOLLOW THE PLANS PRECISELY!

Step 6 calls for dimpling the "holes common to the A-710 Stiffeners". I mistakenly dimpled all the ailerons skin's holes - including the leading and trailing edges. You don't do this until page 22-07, Step 6, para 3. Chock it up to being over-enthusiastic and not getting enough of the dimpling hammer banging - must be intoxicating.

This catches up with you on pages 22-06 and 22-07; as the skin's leading edge holes being dimpled keeps the main rib's front flange hole from aligning correctly with the spar holes and doesn't permit clecoing the rib to the spar as the holes don't quite line up, and because of the dimples you are not able to put a break in the trailing edges of the skins.

I believe that the assembly will still go together alright - being especially careful to make sure when it comes to riveting the ailerons together I pay special attention to keeping it flat and straight. Plus, the trailing edge won't be as crisp without the skin break.

It's like I can't keep from hitting my thumb with a hammer.
 
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Don't worry Jeff I think we all make little 'bugger it' mistakes.
It's the recovery that counts. 😀
 
Main Fuselage Harness

Last week, I received the Main Fuselage Harness (wiring) and it's an impressive (if expensive) piece of work. Kudos to Van's for saving us all a lot of time and effort - it came just in time as I was about to order the wire in bulk for "do it yourself".

I did run into one frustrating issue. The harness includes branches to the Pilot and Co-pilot Control Sticks, and comes with the Molex connectors for the sticks installed on the ends. Unfortunately, these branches (with connectors) need to be fed through 2 holes in cover ribs and 1 in the tunnel wall on each side to reach the sticks, and the connectors are too large to fit through. Options would be: 1) pin removal from the connectors (requires special tool - these are Molex Micro-Fit connectors) and then threading the wire and re-pinning the connector 2) rerouting through the central cavity where the sticks interconnect, tethering the harness to the sides appropriately 3) enlarging the routing holes either with notches for the connector and using the same snap bushings, or enlarging with a step drill and using larger snap bushings.

A call to Van's resulted in a recommendation for #3. I ended up using a combination of 2 and 3 due to significant access challenges. I routed the wire out of the tunnel and through the inboard cover rib using the cavity where the sticks interconnect and wire tying to the cover rib but created a notch on the edge of the hole in the 2nd cover rib using a Dremel tool.

Builders working on the fuselage kit intending to use the Main Fuselage Harness could more easily enlarge (or notch) the appropriate holes during assembly.

Of course buying a pin removal tool would be another option.
 
Keith I notched mine prior to install as per the plans. Haven't installed the harness yet.. Hope I notched big enough. 👍
 
Notches?? What notches?

I'm looking through my revisions and can't find the reference you mention to notch the cover ribs. I'm well past that stage anyway but I don't like the thought that I've missed something. I'll be installing my harness soon.
 
Fuselage harness and micro molex

Hope I notched big enough. 👍

If you still have access, notch them a little bigger than the plans suggest. I notched mine per the plans and the connectors would not go through. My fuselage was complete when I got the harness last July and it was a pain to enlarge the notches in place.

I wouldn't try removing the pins from the micro Molex connector. Micro Molex pins can be removed with a removal tool but, according to Molex, the pins are no longer good and you need to put on new pins.
 
Which kit contains the main harness you are referring to? Finish?

I was referring to the Main Wire Harness 14/14A Kit, Van's part number ES WH-00125 KIT, which is an option. It is not included in any kit. If you are going to order it, order it with the fuselage kit so that you can install it as you build the fuselage.

It is not too hard to install after the fuselage is assembled but it will be a lot easier to install while building. I was very disappointed that it did not come standard with the fuselage kit as the wiring did for the wings and empennage.

On the download page, there is a drawing of the harness and it is detailed enough that you could make your own that would interface with the wing and empennage harnesses.
 
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38-26, Step 3. Breaking Canopy Frame Skin Slot Edges

38-26, Step 6 - calls for breaking the lower edges of the slot that the front lower corners of the canopy slide in to (shown in Figure 1).

This is hard to do at this stage without buggering-up the glare shield because it is hard to get to. Do this edge breaking before you get to this stage, maybe back around page 38-20 before you are handling the canopy plexiglas and have got a nice paint finish on your glare shield.

Had painted the canopy frame glare shield skin twice, nice finish; and the back frame arch C-01405 was painted. Moving the plexiglas around to get it far enough away from the edges that needed breaking.
 
Another insignificant finding:

Fuselage page 29-10, figure 5.

Figure 5 is showing the F-01413 stiffener. Either I am not seeing it correctly or it is showing the right stiffener, not the left one as stated in the plans.

It is the L part that is depicted. A primary clue is to look at the end of the part on the far right. If it was the R part you would see the edges of the part depicted (but they are not).
 
If you are going to install the Ray Allen Flap Position Sensor (Section 54) or even if you are not sure that you will, drill the hole in WD-1013A called out in 54-02, Step 3 while you are installing that crank in Section Page 34-04.

The amount of effort to drill that hole after the crank is installed is significant, or you can remove the crank, drill the hole and reinstall it. Even if you do not use that hole you are better off doing it at 34-04.

UPDATE 9/9/17:
I say again, SIGNIFICANT effort to remove the crank WD-1013A after it is installed. The note to refer to 34-04 for un-installing it is that you undo what it told you to do there. It is now a bit more difficult because there are a few more things in the way, etc. I originally did drill a hole in the crank with a right angle air drive drill - that wasn't significantly difficult, it was close to impossible! You have so little clearance that I had to cut off and shorten a drill at both ends so that there was enough untwisted shank to grip in the chuck and then re-point the dill bit cutting end. There was enough drill bit length then to get into the close quarters between the crank and the under-floor rib. You can't center punch the drill location; it's hard enough just to see it. I did my best to measure for the location of the hole and get it in the right place. But, the crank is powder coated which makes it 'slippery', it ended up walking a little and off by about 3/32". Plus it hard steel and I had to resharpen the bit twice.The whole process to drill that hole while the crank is in-place was VERY difficult. In all, it took about 3 hours+, and not in the right place.

Now I am removing the crank per the instructions and going through a whole new series of tight quarter body contortion and leg cramps. I feel that I need to get the hole in the right place and I have enough room to do that that is far enough from the first hole. And, I will have to reinstall the crank in those same close quarters.

The easiest thing to do if you have not installed the flap crank is to go ahead and drill that little hole that needs to be in there BEFORE you do install it. I hope that Van's revises the instructions to do just that, it will save much time and effort.

I did not use the thin/light-weight 1/16" rod for the sensor link/connection. I used RC model parts, two swivel ball joint ends, one jam nut, installed on a steel welding rod with 4/40 die cut threads held to the sensor on the crank with small RC hardware machine screws and nuts. I drilled a #44 hole.

ohe.png
 
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I checked with Gus at Van's and he sent me Section 54, which is not on the Van's website. He said they installed the sensor after their RV-14 was flying. It looks like it is pretty doable in-place with a 90 degree drill. Probably an even hassle with removing 5 bolts/nuts and some safety wire to get at it now. Besides, I'm not certain I will install the sensor, since I can just look out the window at the flaps. Thanks for the warning, though.
 
The manifold pressure sensor on P. 43-03 calls out p/n 494-30004-02 which is a 50psi sensor but the Garmin std G3X-4CYL Lycoming kit comes with a 30psi sensor for manifold pressure (p/n 494-30004-01). According to Vans this is ok as you won't reach 30psi manifold pressure anyways but the discrepancy does exist in the plans vs what Garmin supplies.
 
Ok Jeffw, I drilled the hole in the flap bracket, and you were right. It was somewhat less of a PITA to just remove the 5 bolts holding the bracket to drill it than it would have been to drill it in place. I have a 90 degree drill and a very short bit, but it was still more than a little awkward to drill in place. Thanks for the warning. ;)
 
I just did this step today, and wondered if the latch pins should be flush with the front face of the rollbar. Using the dimensions in the plans, mine sit a little proud of the surface - just a little more than the rivet heads in the latch pin surround. Does anyone know if this is ok. I figure I can always adjust as needed later.
 
Added "Gotcha" spreadsheet comment for sections 11 and 12

Clarification regarding the installation of the empennage fairing - dedicated to fellow fiberglass procrastinators :D
 
14 QB Wing J-Channel

For 14 QB Wing builders only. I tried to figure out how I was going to fabricate the J-Channel stiffener for the remaining bottom wing skin for the QB wing. Where I?m at in chapter 20 only has instructions on how to install it and makes no mention of how the J-Channel is fabricated. I looked back through the chapters and found how to fabricate it in chapter 13 which is listed as one of the chapters already completed on the QB wing.

In the RV-14 plans, the J-Channel is match drilled to the spar in chapter 13 for the proper location of the holes. However, on the QB wing, chapter 13 is completed (except fabricating the J-Channel) and the spar is already assembled in the wing so there is no access to it for match drilling the J-Channel.

I called Van?s builder assist to see what they recommended and Eric knew of this issue. He was building an RV-10 QB wing and he sent me the page from those plans (RV-10 Page 20-5) which details how to match drill the J-Channel to the wing skin for the QB wing. He also commented that he wished Van?s had included QB instructions in the plans for the 14 like they had for the 10.

After cutting the J-Channel to the length specified in the 14 plans, basically, the RV-10 plans have you draw a centerline 5/16 inch from the edge of the J-Channel flange and insert it in the ribs. Then cleco the bottom wing skin on and match drill each hole through the wing skin and the J-Channel. For each hole be careful to make sure the line on the J-Channel is centered in the wing skin hole before match drilling and insert a cleco in each hole as they are drilled. Of course after doing this for both wings, take the skins off, J-Channels out and deburr all the holes.
 
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