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Have any of you guys used the Aveo Rockrack switches..

I'd like to hear some product reviews on these, as well...I really like the looks of them, but would be interested to hear of anyone's experience with them (construction quality, durability, feel, etc.).

I suppose I could buy a single one just to monkey around with and see how it looks/feels :) but it'd be nice to hear of anyone else's use of them...
 
rock rack

Pierre,
I have a dozen of them on order and according to Stan at Aveo they will ship just after the new year. This will be my first experience with these switches and I am looking forward to seeing and testing them. I'm installing them in a panel for a Berkut. The initial drawback I see is the size of the switch. They are 2 1/2" tall. This will limit them in some installations. I'll post my impressions soon.

Jason Smith
Aerotronics Inc.
 
new -7 over the -6?

Pierre...so you're building a -7 to replace the -6. I am considering building a -7 and would like to know what your thoughts are of the comparison. I had also considered buying a -6 to save cost and probably not loose significant performance.

Hope to see you around some day soon..

Glenn Wilkinson
N654RV @ MLJ
 
Negative, Glenn....

....the -7A is Mr. Philip Blanchard's substitute for his Cirrus. When he flew with me for a BFR in the -6A, he had to have one:) More speed, a lot less gas and aerobatics.

Come see us......Brian's -4 is painted and flying.

Regards,
 
I should be getting a set of PosiStrobe from Christian soon. I'll let you know what I find when we test them.

- Peter
 
ROCK RACK SWITCHES

I just registered to answer this question about the rock rack switches. I just finished installing ten switches for my RV-6 and I love them they work as advertised and look great. Note: The wiring instructions only cover lights and a relay. But with a little common sence and a little electrical ability you will have them working in no time. The alternator was a little tricky because I wanted to use the red LED for a warning light but ended up using the red LED as a alternator not on indicator. Also make sure you buy the right slip on female connectors If you don't the switch doesn't go together very easily. I really like the switches and I think you will too. Also buy from aircraft spruce Stan at aveo america took 3+ weeks to send mine out and he forgot my landing light and nav light covers. I am still waiting.
 
Hummmmm

I am in the process of laying out a new instrument panel. These switches are too big for the intended use..!! Does anyone know of any other engraved switches on the market that are smaller...?
 
Hummmmm

I just received a top and bottom switch from spruce. Hummm, switch won't work without a "spider". The spider mates the top to the bottom. Spruce now knows that they have to send the spider with the bottom. If you have ordered and or received these switches make sure you get the spiders.
 
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And by the way.....you need 2 removal tools at $14.95 each. What a joke!!

Two Big, Too Expensive, .......NKK Switches makes switches to order at a reasonable price. L@@K at the NKK OLED or smartswitch.
 
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any new information?

I have been looking at these switches for a few weeks now but cannot decide if it is worth the extra money to buy them.

Can any of you guys that posted earlier on this thread, who said you have ordered them, chime in with your thoughts on them now that you have (hopefully) got the switches?

Are they worth the money? Do you have any pics of your installation? Is the connector necessary? Can you install them without the module? What about those two (2) removal tools? Can you do without spending an extra $30 for these tools?

I like the looks of these switches but I am having a hard time accepting the price. I would appreciate any input.
 
RVbySDI said:
I have been looking at these switches for a few weeks now but cannot decide if it is worth the extra money to buy them.

Can any of you guys that posted earlier on this thread, who said you have ordered them, chime in with your thoughts on them now that you have (hopefully) got the switches?

Are they worth the money? Do you have any pics of your installation? Is the connector necessary? Can you install them without the module? What about those two (2) removal tools? Can you do without spending an extra $30 for these tools?

I like the looks of these switches but I am having a hard time accepting the price. I would appreciate any input.
Click to expand...





Well here is some honest input.....

They don't have some of the important covers for there switches like the ....hummmm, MAG Left - Mag Right Covers. In short if you order the switches you will NOT BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THE PANEL. They don't even have a momentary starter switch. Yes the cart is before the horse.

I have found some incredible switches. You can design the label on your computer and download it to your switch. It will switch as the button is pushed. I have there demo kit and have been playing with them for 3 weeks. More later.

Another company sells 20 amp switches and has 2 leds, one for off and one for on. You can custom design the leds and lables and they will print the covers....same as the above switches with more variations.

There are lots of switches that are high end that will work much better for a few bucks more.

In my opinion, the above,......not the best buy!!!! Would I Purchase again? NO! As a matter of fact, I am replacing them already.

If you want to see something that will really get you thinking......

http://www.nkksmartswitch.com/products/video/nikkai_E_rogoA.mov

I am in the process of designing....more later

PS - about $30.00 each
 
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Sticky1 said:
Well here is some honest input.....

They don't have some of the important covers for there switches like the ....hummmm, MAG Left - Mag Right Covers. In short if you order the switches you will NOT BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THE PANEL. They don't even have a momentary starter switch. Yes the cart is before the horse.

I have found some incredible switches. You can design the label on your computer and download it to your switch. It will switch as the button is pushed. I have there demo kit and have been playing with them for 3 weeks. More later.

Another company sells 20 amp switches and has 2 leds, one for off and one for on. You can custom design the leds and lables and they will print the covers....same as the above switches with more variations.

There are lots of switches that are high end that will work much better for a few bucks more.

In my opinion, the above,......not the best buy!!!! Would I Purchase again? NO! As a matter of fact, I am replacing them already.

If you want to see something that will really get you thinking......

http://www.nkksmartswitch.com/products/video/nikkai_E_rogoA.mov

I am in the process of designing....more later

PS - about $30.00 each
Click to expand...
The switches that allow you to print out your own labels sound like exactly what I am looking for. Can you provide information on the different switches you are referring to? Do you have contact, pricing, availability information?

I am needing to pull the trigger NOW on my order. The switches are the only thing left before I laser cut my panel cutouts. I am ready to buy now if I can find the right switches.

Are the switches you are referring to in production now? If so, can you give me a link to a web site or some other information so I can check them out and perhaps purchase what I need?

Thanks,
 
RVbySDI said:
The switches that allow you to print out your own labels sound like exactly what I am looking for. Can you provide information on the different switches you are referring to? Do you have contact, pricing, availability information?

I am needing to pull the trigger NOW on my order. The switches are the only thing left before I laser cut my panel cutouts. I am ready to buy now if I can find the right switches.

Are the switches you are referring to in production now? If so, can you give me a link to a web site or some other information so I can check them out and perhaps purchase what I need?

Thanks,
Click to expand...



The switches come in 2 styles however both styles need an interface. One style is a simple switch you can download a fixed lable to. The one mentioned above actually is a motion picture on the switch top. The switches are about 7/8 x 3/4". Hummm, think flaps: Push once the flaps go to 10* and the switch has the movie of the flaps going to 10*..........or mabe dancing girls till the flaps hit 10*........

Unfortunatly, the interface is not done yet.

Now in the mean time. I have inserted Carling switches. Same deminsions as the other guys however the switch tops and the switches can be ordered in any configuration. I have 20amp switches with a led which is dim in the off position and an incondescent lamp which is bright red in the start position. One problem I have found is that it takes a month or two to order any special configuration switch and lense. The customization is worth the wait.

This is the site for Carling. You can get the idea and part numbers for the J series and V series switches here. I have the V series.

http://rocker-switches.carlingtech.com/sealed-rocker-switch__19.asp

After finding what I wanted, I went to this site and called Chris J (female). Very helpfull..!!

http://www.spemco.com/

If you are not to picky, call and ask what they have in stock. There is an unbeliveable amount of switches on the market. I have been searching for months and settled on Carling thru Spemco untill I finish the interface for the "Movie switches".

Another item I have been L@@King for and found is a self contained electronic dimmer for the instrument lights. It is a rocker with Bright and Dim printed on the face. Will handle 20 amps, more than enough.

PS- In answer to one of your questions.....No you dont need the back block however it is easier if you need to take the switch out for any reason. You will need special connectors for the block. The removal tool is a joke however it does make it easier. Spemco sells the same tool.
 
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Switches

I'm using Tyco switches & indicators in my Europa. Very similar to the NKK switches mentioned above. They are readily available from Newark (www.newark.com) who will sell with no minimum order. Check out Newark # 16M2731 indicator (Catalog 126 page 1724), 52M8860 (p 1732). I used LED's in them #19C8084 (p. 1340). There are similar switches on page 1727.

They are available in round, square or rectangular. All contacts are rated at 5 amps at 24V resistive and you can get up to 3 pole contact blocks.

You can make up labels on your computer - black text on white paper works fine.

Jim Butcher
Europa XS N241BW
 
Thanks guys

Sticky1,
I have seen the Carling Tech switches and had thought they would work but did not know what their price was. I still don't but will contact the people at the links you mentioned.

Prior to posting here I had looked at the NKK web site and saw the OLED IS switches. I found no information on their costs and had not talked to anyone in person about them so I had not figured on them.

I have also looked at the Eaton rocker switches without labels for around $15.00 each. I thought I could use them and print out labels on the computer.

Jim,
Thanks for the post also. I have talked with Newark about rocker switches but until your post I had not considered push button switches. Now I have more decisions to make. I was hoping I could make a decision soon but here I am riding the fence more on what to do.
 
Too big

We considered the Aveo's on the -10, but no matter how we put things together...they're too big.
 
NKK OLED

RVbySDI said:
Sticky1,
Prior to posting here I had looked at the NKK web site and saw the OLED IS switches. I found no information on their costs and had not talked to anyone in person about them so I had not figured on them.
Click to expand...

Don't know about their OLED switches, but I find prices for their LED ones run around $88 each. OLEDS will be (probably much) higher. :p
 
h&jeuropa said:
I'm using Tyco switches & indicators in my Europa. Very similar to the NKK switches mentioned above. They are readily available from Newark (www.newark.com) who will sell with no minimum order. Check out Newark # 16M2731 indicator (Catalog 126 page 1724), 52M8860 (p 1732). I used LED's in them #19C8084 (p. 1340). There are similar switches on page 1727.

They are available in round, square or rectangular. All contacts are rated at 5 amps at 24V resistive and you can get up to 3 pole contact blocks.

You can make up labels on your computer - black text on white paper works fine.

Jim Butcher
Europa XS N241BW
Click to expand...



Hi Jim,

There are many manufactures of switches. Unfortunatly 5 amps for the switch rating is not enough for some applications. Most of the time one should match the circuit breaker to get the most from the switches. Yes I know the current never goes as high as the breaker, however the switch will last longer.
 
Bob Brown said:
We considered the Aveo's on the -10, but no matter how we put things together...they're too big.
Click to expand...


Yes they are big....

Actually, depending on where you place them.....they are ok...(just ok)

Like at the very bottom of the instrument panel next to larger things.....
 
dhammer said:
Don't know about their OLED switches, but I find prices for their LED ones run around $88 each. OLEDS will be (probably much) higher. :p
Click to expand...



I found the OLEDS to be around $30-40. each

The other from Carling .....around the same $ as avero
 
Mike S said:
Another option is a Honeywell switch, with custom engraving
Click to expand...

I don't know about you all (all you all) but I am very very fussy when it comes to my instrument panel. The lettering is as important as the switch itself. Some just L@@K to DAM HOKEY.

Add another very...!!

I have temp lettering for now however, the OLEDS will be installed as soon as I finish the interface pcb. Ok lets see if I can post my instrument panel......
 
dhammer said:
Don't know about their OLED switches, but I find prices for their LED ones run around $88 each. OLEDS will be (probably much) higher. :p
Click to expand...
NKK UB2 pushbutton switches, LED indicator, about $27 each at Mouser. Red, green, amber or white LEDs. Caps can be engraved or screen print your own labels.

TODR
 
Great information

I know this is not my thread but I want to thank all you guys for the information. I have really struggled with the switch decision (actually, I still am struggling with it)! I think the reason I was looking at the Rock Rack switches was the fact that they look nice. However, I do not want to pay certified prices just for looks. I was sure there would be other options that would look nice and function well also. You guys have supplied me with some additional information on various other switches I can look at.

Sticky1,
Another question. If I go with the Carling Tech switches can I just cut out the appropriate size hole in the panel and snap the switch in place or do I need some type of bezel, mounting module or the like for the switch to mount into?
 
RVbySDI said:
I know this is not my thread but I want to thank all you guys for the information. I have really struggled with the switch decision (actually, I still am struggling with it)! I think the reason I was looking at the Rock Rack switches was the fact that they look nice. However, I do not want to pay certified prices just for looks. I was sure there would be other options that would look nice and function well also. You guys have supplied me with some additional information on various other switches I can look at.

Sticky1,
Another question. If I go with the Carling Tech switches can I just cut out the appropriate size hole in the panel and snap the switch in place or do I need some type of bezel, mounting module or the like for the switch to mount into?
Click to expand...



Actually the rock switches are not certified!! As far as the panel cutouts...all you need to do is figure what switches you r going to use and stick with them. However not is all lost, if you change your mind all you have to do is a panel overlay with new holes. Most of this type of switch can be used with or with out the bezels.
 
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Where?

Sticky1 said:
I found the OLEDS to be around $30-40. each

The other from Carling .....around the same $ as avero
Click to expand...

Give me a link if you please for the $40 one. One thing you must realize is these and their LED smart switches have to have a driver circuit board attached to work the display and a $300 piece of software to program the board. You can either develop your own board, or buy one from NKK. I think when when all is said and done you are going to be over $100ea for them. Cool switches, but certainly not cheap.
 
Sticky1 said:
Actually the rock switches are not certified!!
Click to expand...
Yes, I am aware they are not certified. I was just making the point that the company is pricing them as if they were.

Cost of components is a primary reason why I am building an experimental instead of buying a certified aircraft. This is really for a totally different thread, but the ultimate problem with aviation (and I might add, anything else today) is the producers of products want to become "solvent" the second they start selling their product. Consequently they price their goods so high that few can afford to buy them. This creates financial problems because the income stream does not develop.

Well, no point in going on like this. As I said, this is for another thread. I need to get back to figuring out what switches to use.
 
dhammer said:
Give me a link if you please for the $40 one. One thing you must realize is these and their LED smart switches have to have a driver circuit board attached to work the display and a $300 piece of software to program the board. You can either develop your own board, or buy one from NKK. I think when when all is said and done you are going to be over $100ea for them. Cool switches, but certainly not cheap.
Click to expand...


I have the programming kit #7 which test drives 2 of the OLEDS. The $ was 270. for the kit. The OLEDS cost about 30-40. each. The board you are talking about is an intergral part of the switch. The interface pcb has the relays that the switches turn on.
 
Sticky1 said:
I have the programming kit #7 which test drives 2 of the OLEDS. The $ was 270. for the kit. The OLEDS cost about 30-40. each. The board you are talking about is an intergral part of the switch. The interface pcb has the relays that the switches turn on.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, I have a couple of quick questions...with an interface board and solid state switches, will these switches work if you lose power to them? Will you still see the labeling on the switches with no power to the switches? What is the rating of the switches? Have they been tested in high vibration environments? Is the lighting/dimming circuit separate from the line/load circuit of the switch?

Just curious...I haven't played with these but have used/tried about every kind/brand of switch made and in the past they were not a good fit in an aircraft for a large variety of reasons. Maybe these are hence my asking.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Don't use AC rated switches

From what I found on the Spemco website, it appears their switches are meant for alternating current. Maybe I missed some.

According to "Lectric Bob, they will not hold up to DC loads. My elementary level understanding is that with AC, since the current is alternating, the arc breaks much quicker than with DC, so the AC rated switches don't have to be as robust as DC switches.
 
RScott said:
From what I found on the Spemco website, it appears their switches are meant for alternating current. Maybe I missed some.

According to "Lectric Bob, they will not hold up to DC loads. My elementary level understanding is that with AC, since the current is alternating, the arc breaks much quicker than with DC, so the AC rated switches don't have to be as robust as DC switches.
Click to expand...

This is true, an AC switch used for DC will not make it to the 1,000,000 plus cycles that the switch failed at with AC current. If used for DC, you might need to replace them once or twice during the life of the aircraft...............:cool:
 
SteinAir said:
Out of curiosity, I have a couple of quick questions...with an interface board and solid state switches, will these switches work if you lose power to them? Will you still see the labeling on the switches with no power to the switches? What is the rating of the switches? Have they been tested in high vibration environments? Is the lighting/dimming circuit separate from the line/load circuit of the switch?

Just curious...I haven't played with these but have used/tried about every kind/brand of switch made and in the past they were not a good fit in an aircraft for a large variety of reasons. Maybe these are hence my asking.

Cheers,
Stein
Click to expand...


The switches and the interface PCB will work since they are 9-12vdc. If you loose power it would be the same as loosing power elsewhere. I have 2 batteries in my plane so I dont consider it an issue. The switch ratings are next to nothing, this is why I am designing the interface pcb. As far as the vibration issue.....time will tell.

The dimmer I mentioned is a seperate dimmer already on the market. Complete small package.

I fully understand why and appriciate the questions. The simple answer is.....I have used and played with just about all that is out there and when something new comes on the market....well i'll play with that to. I use to do a lot of design and service work in the semiconductor industry. Been there.

For the other posts:

As for the AC/DC issue...ok. I really don't consider it a major issue. Rock advertises 150,000 cycles. They don't actually mention the ratings. So...once a day for ...How many years..? Replace once or twice....?? UGH...?

Carling.....L@@K closer at there site....
http://rocker-switches.carlingtech.com/sealed-rocker-switch__19.asp

12vdc @20Amps
 
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I guess my question was more along the lines of if you loose power to the switches will the switches work at all? I'm not forming an opinion on these switches either way, but since I don't have first hand knowledge of this particular series I'm stealing information from you.

If the switches entirely cease to function if they themselves loose power, then I'd be a bit leery about installation in an aircraft...is your installation making each switch pull power from it's specific circuit, or are all of the switches powered from one circuit? Is the dimming circuit separate from the power circuit? If you loose power to your interface board, do you loose all switching functionality in the plane?

Like I said, I don't have a horse in the race other than to try and gain some information. Thanks for feeding it to us!

Cheers,
Stein
 
SteinAir said:
I guess my question was more along the lines of if you loose power to the switches will the switches work at all? I'm not forming an opinion on these switches either way, but since I don't have first hand knowledge of this particular series I'm stealing information from you.

If the switches entirely cease to function if they themselves loose power, then I'd be a bit leery about installation in an aircraft...is your installation making each switch pull power from it's specific circuit, or are all of the switches powered from one circuit? Is the dimming circuit separate from the power circuit? If you loose power to your interface board, do you loose all switching functionality in the plane?

Like I said, I don't have a horse in the race other than to try and gain some information. Thanks for feeding it to us!

Cheers,
Stein
Click to expand...



Good Question. Yes all the switches will work. Unless a device string is out. A device string would be the Power Source, Breaker, Switch, Latching Relay, Feedback, and the flaps or the gear........

The switch is SPST. The contact rating is next nothing, 100ma. This is the reason for the interface PCB. If the string was powered from one source then a power failure would knock out the lot. So each switch is powered by the breaker that supplies the string. A second supply has also been added to the Interface and data strings. The switches will work if the "LED" goes out. With a life of 1,000,000 operations minimum and a operating force of 2.0 ± 0.5 Newtons, I won't have much finger strain.:D

The simple way of doing this is to just purchase the old run of the mill toggle switch. For most this is ok however, I wanted something different.

It's not any different then all the manuf's out there going glass.

The dimmer is "NOT" part of what I am designing. It is already on the market and working. Take a L@@K at: http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/ld_series.pdf


PS - I don't use Andair either. I have electric rotary ball valves with position led markers. I can draw from both wing tanks at the "same rate". Just something different. Turn a valve:eek:.....naaaa to much work....
 
Are the Aveo and Carling Contura Switches the same?

Are the Aveo RockRack and Carling Technology Contura switches the same? By that I mean, are the two sets of parts interchangeable? The Carling switches themselves are half the price of the Aveo switches. If I could get the switches from Carling and use the fancy Aveo rockers, seems like I'd have the best of both worlds. I have a Carling switch on hand. I suppose I could purchase one Aveo rocker and see if those parts were compatible. Has anyone already done this?
 
Could cause problems

Sticky1 said:
If you want to see something that will really get you thinking......

http://www.nkksmartswitch.com/products/video/nikkai_E_rogoA.mov

I am in the process of designing....more later

PS - about $30.00 each
Click to expand...
I would carefully test any LCD switch product out there due to the vibration of the airframe. I tested two different types on ground based equipment and had problems with missing lines/pixels after just a few months of operation. From what I understand the LCD's have a fragile connection with their base connector as this is a glass to PCB connection.
I have heard of some new types where the LCD is mounted in the back of the switch instead of the action (like these) and use optics to bring the visual up.
In all cases, you lose power, you lose your legend even if the switch continues to work.
 
I have the aveo switches

I have the Aveo switches on my panel and they look and work awesome, I have the backlit swiches on a dimmer. Im not flying yet so I can only tell you how they work in the garage.

They are definitely bigger which is why I have my switches higher on the panel.
 
Drat, now I really do regret not getting to meet you and see your project, Paul... I'm considering the Aveo switches too but haven't played with any yet. They look awesome though.
 
Heads up about 21st century.

Back in august I bought a set of switches from Stan Smith. I am still waiting on a few parts of my order and Stan isn't responding to calls or emails. I found out from karen at aveo that he is no longer connected with aveo.

The switches are big and take some planning to fit on the panel, but look awesome... Well, the ones I have anyways.
 
Re: wiring these things...the diagrams published by Aveo show direct connections to the battery for the LED (no resistor in-line).

Is that how you wired them up? I guess I'm used to seeing LED wiring diagrams that need a resistor to get the correct current drop for a given LED.

ETA: Never mind...I see the statement "• Integrated resistors" (on the KestrelAir website). That answers that! :)
 
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Hi Charlie. I bought the combo nav strobe when the rep from Aveo showed the whole program of his company at our EAA chapter(292) this last year. I havent installed them yet but was blinded by them in the sunlight at Arlington Airshow summer before last. They have a lifetime replacement and I see from their website that they are going on other aircraft that are produced abroad.Also I did like the lighted switches and did like how easy they were able to gang together.I thought the icons where a little small on the switches. This is the company website for all lighting they offer http://aveoengineering.com/ and http://www.kestrel-air.com/ @ Kestrel Talk to Howard (hes a pilot too) tell hime Ron from Oregon EAA 292 sent you. You might get Tracy too! Both will help you. Their located in the northwest. Good people! Ron in Oregon
 
Any idea when Aveo will start selling switch tops a la carte, instead of in packs of 10? I'd like a few from one set, a few from another, etc. etc. And would prefer not to be tossing out the leftovers.

Anyone who buys a few packs and wants to get rid of the extra covers, let me know, if you aren't using what I need I could buy them.
 
Snowflake said:
Any idea when Aveo will start selling switch tops a la carte, instead of in packs of 10? I'd like a few from one set, a few from another, etc. etc. And would prefer not to be tossing out the leftovers.

Anyone who buys a few packs and wants to get rid of the extra covers, let me know, if you aren't using what I need I could buy them.
Click to expand...


I really wish they'd do this...I'm getting closer to ordering switches and other electrical gizmos, and having to buy only in "sets" of 10 looks like I'm going to end up with a bunch of unused (and in some cases, duplicate) covers, plus in a couple of cases, I'll need to order all 10 just to get 1 or 2 covers. Very poor customer service in that area.

I did order one switch/top + tools just to check them out...and that convinced me to use them, but I wish they'd offer more flexibility in ordering.
 
Bugsy said:
I have the Aveo switches on my panel and they look and work awesome, I have the backlit swiches on a dimmer. Im not flying yet so I can only tell you how they work in the garage.

They are definitely bigger which is why I have my switches higher on the panel.
Click to expand...

can you post pics of your panel so far?
 
RV_PANEL.jpg


Here is a glimpse of my panel, still in the works. The switches do take some planning due to their size, but look great.

One word of caution, I bought my switches from Stan at 21st century aviation in Missouri. It took him 2 months to send me the parts he said I would have in 14 days... I am still 4 switch covers short of finished and he is not answering phone calls or emails.
 
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