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Time to throw in the towel...

epaslick

Active Member
I don't appear to have what it takes to build an RV-12, so I'm thinking it's coming time to bring this unpleasant disaster to a close.
 
Hi Eric,

I've uttered those words (OK, let's be honest - I've screamed those words) several times through my build. And I'm sure I'll scream them again.

Bring your issue to the team here. Call Van's. Ask a nearby builder to come look at the problem. This is a very rewarding project and you've seen how many people on this forum have successfully built and flown their airplanes.

There will be speed bumps along the way. Walk away for a day or two. Seek help and then make your decision.

I hope to see you back here
:)
 
What's got you frustrated? Please explain,I'm quite sure that this group of folks here want to help & see you successful .
 
Eric,

Sorry to hear you have had enough. I have been frustrated and overwhelmed many times during the build, and a few times after it's been completed. In the end, it was all worth it to me. Any particular questions you have? I bet there is someone local to you that could assist. Just ask.
 
Hang in there!

I don't appear to have what it takes to build an RV-12, so I'm thinking it's coming time to bring this unpleasant disaster to a close.
While what you are saying may be true, you are probably just experiencing a temporary period of frustration. What is needed is some support from other local builders, a trip to Oshkosh, or a flight in someone else's RV-12.

Hang in there, man, you can do it!
 
Hang in there!!...Few of us have ..what it takes ,to be an aircraft builder!!...Get help from your local chapter!....sooner than yu think....there.ll be an aeroplane in your garage!!
 
Eric, give it another shot

I've thought of giving up many times over the last twenty years but now getting close to completion the satisfaction of seeing your own real airplane coming together is incredible. Just go to any local fly-in and watch a RV-12 flying by. That should help. :) That feeling that you gave up will haunt you forever. Beside if you complete it, it will be worth a lot more than a pile of aluminum components.:D
 
Eric--we all get frustrated---me especially. Have you bit off more than you can chew? Probably not, you just have to whittle it down into smaller bites.
EVERYONE here is here to help----believe me.

Tom
 
Eric, unless you have some physical infirmity, you have what it takes to finish this project. What you apparently don't have and need to develop is patience and will. It took me 17 years to finish mine and I had to move it three times (four if you count to the airport). There were a lot of people who made jokes about how they'd see the project on Barnstormer or something like that. Funny thing is none of them had built anything in their lives but they were regular comedians about this. It was fun shoving my success down their throats and I don't hear a peep out of them anymore. Just get yourself together, meet with some fellow builders, learn to motivate yourself by breaking the task down into manageable chunks and get the darn thing done! There are at last count 9,668 flying RVs, most more complicated than the -12. Are you saying those people are all smarter than you are??? I doubt it!:D
 
I'll bet there are some fellow RV'rs in Arkansas that could stop by and see Eric. LOL---Vlad would certainly go.

Tom
 
I viewed the construction process as therapy, something totally different from what I did at my day job. Each individual task was a project unto itself. If I was fabricating a bracket, I tried to make the best bracket I was capable of. I wasn't building a plane, at that moment I was building a bracket. The plane emerged from the smaller projects.
 
If you've already finished building, one of the best things you can do is take a blocked builder flying.

I've done this several times. They're some of my most rewarding passenger flights, and they sometimes create enough inspiration to make the roadblocks melt away.

Most RVs have 2 or 4 seats. It's almost a crime to fly around with them empty. Make the offer, it's always helpful.

- mark
 
I don't appear to have what it takes to build an RV-12, so I'm thinking it's coming time to bring this unpleasant disaster to a close.

Eric,

I hope you'll elaborate on what the reasons are that you feel you don't think you have what it takes to build a RV-12. You're an A & P, so I don't think it's lack of skill.

This could be valuable information for someone thinking of starting a RV-12 build.

Jim
 
I'm a bit calmer today...

I want to thank to everyone for their encouragement, I will post a longer reply detailing my progress (or lack there-of) later today.

I have ordered replacement parts (again).

Eric
 
I have been trying to visualize what he is feeling. Through over 5 years of building, with a wife that saw it more as a sickness than a construction, no other builders nearby, and about to turn 80 with more medical interruptions than normal, and NEVER did I consider giving up on it.
Take a short break from it before you decide to quit would be my advice.
 
get a mentor

It really, really helps to have a mentor, or at least someone to give you moral support. There must be another builder near Siloam Springs, AR.

Soon after I started my Lancair 235 kit, the statistics were that only 20% of original kit buyers ever finished their kits. I just couldn't believe that at the time, but after taking over 20 years to finish my project, now I believe it. Even today, only one third of ~200 kits sold are currently flying. Many builders just gave up for one reason or another. Don't be one of those guys!
 
I have ordered replacement parts (again).

Eric

Eric, I can't count how many times I've ordered replacement parts. The good news is that they're cheap, compared to a like part from a certified plane, but it still adds up. Even though my -8 is flying, I plan to rebuild an aileron that has a slightly wrinkled corner (got blown off the wing during a thunderstorm while I was preparing to install it) and my baggage door, which doesn't fit the way I want it to. So, I have extra parts in the parts drawer just waiting on me to get done with the wheel pants and gear fairings. It never ends!
 
I want to thank to everyone for their encouragement, I will post a longer reply detailing my progress (or lack there-of) later today.

I have ordered replacement parts (again).

Eric
I'm building a 7 - I call it the Monday morning call of shame. LOL.

Just last week I put a few dings in the bottom skin and was so frustrated I had to put things down and walk away for a day.

It happens.
 
Warning Thread drift

I saw the facory RV14 (taildragger) at AOPA show in Camarillo. After looking it over carefully, i decided I am going to rebuild my elevator trim tab beofre paint, and maybe evn my complete empennage; I am so much better now at riveting. I heard the second (or third) time things come out better.
 
I want to thank to everyone for their encouragement, I will post a longer reply detailing my progress (or lack there-of) later today.

I have ordered replacement parts (again).

Eric

Glad you're staying with it! Everyone orders replacement parts (I even had to order replacement parts for replacement parts when I cut the elevator weights wrong TWICE!).

Each little bit done is a VICTORY! I'm still surprised to see real airplane parts emerge from a pile of aluminum bits.

Right now, I'm just starting the tanks for my -14... I put it off until the weather was warmer and now it's time to go for it!

Pat
 
I got this on VAF (forget the author), but printed & kept it on the wall in my shop over my 15 yr build - It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so. Looked at it often.
 
I viewed the construction process as therapy, something totally different from what I did at my day job. Each individual task was a project unto itself. If I was fabricating a bracket, I tried to make the best bracket I was capable of. I wasn't building a plane, at that moment I was building a bracket. The plane emerged from the smaller projects.
I find that an excellent approach to building an RV-12.
 
Eric, a while ago after needing to order some replacement parts from Van's yet again, I was pretty bummed out. While I was at the airport I stopped by and visited with an RV-7 builder. His RV-7 was there in the hangar, a flying airplane. He told me that when he was done, he took his junk parts to the scrap buyer and they gave him $136 for them.

That sure made me feel better.

Also, please know that the RV-12 is one of the nicer-flying airplanes out there, period.I liked it better than all but maybe one other. I like the -12 better than two other RVs, in fact.

Hang in there!

Dave
RV-3B, now trying to skin the fuselage
 
Don't let anyone take away your dream

I want to encourage you to continue. Yes, sometimes it can be PITA when things don't go as planned. Just remember, you are already a winner by being on the path to building an airplane. So very few humans take on this challenge. Right now, it might not seem like it's the correct path, but somewhere along the way I think you'll start enjoying your journey. Remember to celebrate all the small things, and try to forget about the mistakes and errors (those can be corrected anyway and nobody is perfect). I know the kind, thoughtful and helpful folks at this site want to see you be successful. And each of them will do their best to help you out along the way.

Best,

T
 
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We are building 2 RV12's side by side..........

We duplicate mistakes :eek:

Keep at it, it will be worth it 10 times over.
 
Devil's advocate here....

There is nothing wrong with throwing in the towel.

We're all given certain talents. I can build anything, but I can't play the piano. Or dance. And there is no reason to do them badly.

I am sure you too have talents, but perhaps building isn't on your list. So buy an RV. We must have at least a thousand readers right here who didn't build their baby, and they love them just as much. Heck, somebody has to buy finished airplanes or the whole system collapses.

Point is, build because you want to build. Do it because it's fun, or satisfying, or challenging, not because you want an airplane. Spend your trips around the sun doing what you do well.
 
Don't give up. I ordered my kit 4 years ago, and for the first couple of years, work kept me from really being steady at it. Retired in Sept, and my new job is working on my RV 12. My wife is supportive. I find it relaxing, although crawling under the panel to do wiring, puts an old guy in positions we shouldn't get into. Will I ever finish it in time to fly? God willing I will. I had the misfortune of a completed Stabilator fall off the wall when a Lowes wall rack broke, requiring new parts, and rebuild of the stabilator. It is good sometime to just walk away. Do something else, and then realize you miss the fun of building.
 
Devil's advocate here....

There is nothing wrong with throwing in the towel.

We're all given certain talents. I can build anything, but I can't play the piano. Or dance. And there is no reason to do them badly.

I am sure you too have talents, but perhaps building isn't on your list. So buy an RV. We must have at least a thousand readers right here who didn't build their baby, and they love them just as much. Heck, somebody has to buy finished airplanes or the whole system collapses.

Point is, build because you want to build. Do it because it's fun, or satisfying, or challenging, not because you want an airplane. Spend your trips around the sun doing what you do well.
Hey Dan, next time we are at a Oshkosh or Petit Jean lets find a piano and I will show you a few notes to play. In five minutes I will have you playing a song. :D
 
Devil's advocate here....

There is nothing wrong with throwing in the towel...

Dan, that?s an excellent point and I?m glad you said it first. It sounds harsh, but not everyone is cut out to build an airplane ? I know I?m not and I?ve been in the airplane business for my whole life. I have all the skills required, and God knows I?ve done the equivalent work of a complete build on all the airplanes I?ve rebuilt/modified over the years, but to slog through from the first rivet to the last drop of paint? No thanks! I have the utmost respect for those that have, but I have no personal interest in that. I much prefer to modify, tweak, tinker, etc. So this means that my airplanes are NEVER done ? which in itself would drive some people crazy.

The point Dan makes is that we have only so much time on this earth, and you should spend that time doing what makes you happy. There is no shame in simply buying a complete airplane and flying the wings off it if that is what you really want. If you want to fly, then buy. If you loved to build and now can?t stand it, change gears and move to something else. No shame as far as I?m concerned.
 
The point Dan makes is that we have only so much time on this earth, and you should spend that time doing what makes you happy. There is no shame in simply buying a complete airplane and flying the wings off it if that is what you really want. If you want to fly, then buy. If you loved to build and now can?t stand it, change gears and move to something else. No shame as far as I?m concerned.

I agree with Michael and Dan (though I am not meaning to push you towards quitting....)

It is rare that a person completes an airplane build project without developing at least some level of enjoyment (usually on he order of obsession) of the process.
If someone is not enjoying the process, it might actually be a bad idea to try and continue (become prone to accept lower quality work in the interest of moving the project along, etc,).

Building an airplane is not for every one. The only way to find out is to try it (just being willing to try is an achievement of itself).
There should be no shame in making the decision to not follow through with the "try" part of the plan.
 
To get things done, you must love the doing.

A smart lady once wrote, "To get things done, you must love the doing."

I "hit the wall" a couple times on my project. The first time was all the fiberglass sanding and finishing after the airframe was complete. That part was NOT FUN. You RV builders get to enjoy a small taste of that horrible job on your canopy surrounds, turtle backs, and fairings. After two years of sanding, filling, and primering over and over again, I was pretty much a broken man. In order to preserve what was left of my sanity, I finally hired someone to help me.

Not long after that, I packed up and moved to a different state and built a house. The airplane project just sat forlorn in the basement for several years there. Eventually, by force of will alone, I got back on it and "finished" it three years ago. The project has turned out to be the biggest adventure I've ever had.

Curiously, though, nobody really appreciates what I went through for all those years. If people say anything at all, they'll say, "Oh, you have an airplane", like it just appeared via magic. So if part of the reason that you want to build your own airplane is to have people look up to you, it ain't gonna' happen.
 
I'll add .. don't look for perfection .. ever .. the only person looking at your airplane with a microscope is YOU.

Just build it safe and paint it to cover up all your smileys ;)

I'm as OCD as it gets and I had to let "perfect" go like on day 2 I think LOL!
 
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My $0.02

I have been on the fence a few times so far, during my build. Usually, those moments were sparked by frustration, but rarely was the frustration caused by a mistake, lack of skill or feeling uninformed. It was always statements like "my RV-10 build took me 2 1/2 years, standard kit. How long have you been at it now?", or "I love my Cherokee 180! It may be slow, but the whole thing cost me less than your engine and prop are going to cost you!", or "By the time you finish that thing, you're kids won't want to fly with you anyway. They'll be teenagers!" My frustrations were/are rooted in my own impatience, goaded on by others.

On the flip side, I've heard statements from builders like, "Actually, I love the building more than the flying.", or "When I'm finished with this one, I'll probably sell it and build another.", or "Building airplanes is what I've done my whole life. What's another one?" These statements led me to believe that perhaps I don't have what it takes because I'm not "in LOVE" with building.

I firmly believe that no one is 100% "gotta build" or 100% gotta fly." However, only you can determine where you fall on the scale and then decide whether that is enough for you to successfully (and safely) build an airplane. Be honest with yourself about this, because as the saying goes, "You can do anything, but you can't do everything."

For me, considering all the other things in my life pulling me in different directions, I'm about 55% gotta build and 45% gotta fly, so I think I'm in it for the haul, even if it's a long one...

Where do you fall on the scale?
 
Where do you fall on the scale?
That was really a thoughtful post. From childhood I always liked building things but didn't learn to fly until I was thirty five and fell into a job that paid good money so I could afford the lessons. I found that I loved to fly but rental planes were so expensive! Eventually I sold a house and had $20,000 left over that was burning a hole in my pocket. That wasn't enough to buy much of an airplane, so building one seemed like a natural way out of my dilemma. I bought the kit and loved building the plane. At first I thought I could have it flying in 3-4 years. Unfortunately, reality stepped in and I realized that wasn't going to happen. But I just kept going. During those years I was torn between working on the plane and flying, but couldn't afford both. So for a long time I just flew barely enough in a C-172 to stay "proficient".

To answer your question, originally I was 90% a builder and 10% a pilot. During the middle "hit the wall" years I was neither. Then I sucked it up and made a final push and finished the plane. Now that it's "done" (it never will be), I've gone the other way. I'm 90% into flying and 10% into working on the plane. I still enjoy doing maintenance and upgrades on the plane, but it's more of a chore now than it was at first. I still need to paint it properly and get some real upholstery. Sigh...
 
For me, considering all the other things in my life pulling me in different directions, I'm about 55% gotta build and 45% gotta fly, so I think I'm in it for the haul, even if it's a long one...

Where do you fall on the scale?

Wow, does that statement ever ring true with me. I've been fortunate to own one airplane and have access to a second airplane while pursuing the dream of building our own aircraft.

There have been days when I've been flying and wondering just how it will feel to fly an aircraft built by my own hands. Then there have been all the bright, sunny VFR days when I've been slogging away in the hangar while my friends have been off having a blast in the sky. Yes, some of those have been tough to take, especially during the paint prep process where it seems like the thankless task will never end.

I contrast these negative feelings with the more predominant positive feelings. Just this week I returned to the hangar after over two weeks of absence. Running my hands over the curves of the airplane, seeing the precisely-formed fuel lines, the tightly-laced wire bundles, and knowing that I had poured my heart and soul into bringing the pile of parts together into a flying machine brought me an almost overwhelming sense of pride and accomplishment.

Sure, I know where all our aircraft's warts are hidden. I also know the custom features installed with one of my family members in mind, knowing, too, how much they will enjoy using those features that were installed just for them.

Throwing in the towel as a builder, or never picking it up in the first place, is not an act that should be discouraged or frowned upon. Heck, I didn't build our "flying" airplane, but flying it, knowing it was built in a local farmer's basement almost 40 years ago, has given me the assurance that I can complete our dream aircraft. Throwing the towel in without first getting a good shot of encouragement from fellow builders would be a shame. There are lots of us out there who will go the extra mile to help you get re-energized - just don't be shy to ask.
 
Teddy Roosevelt Quote

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
--Teddy Roosevelt
 
Reasons to quit

Eric
Although most replies are encouraging you to keep going I see a couple fine reasons to quit and sell it. And these are not reasons concerning your skills and abilities. We don't know your situation. So . . .

If you find yourself getting angry from the thought that you can't attend a family/friend event because you have to get into the garage and work on the RV then, it might be time to quit.

If you're building for the purpose of having an airplane instead of for the adventure of building, it might be time to quit and buy a plane.

But if your reason to quit is because there is so much to learn, (and you have plenty of time for family and friends and another plane to fly while you build) then I'd encourage you to take the time, read the plans slowly, keep going. Build on.
 
Quitting????

I think i was there this morning, yesterday evening, the week before and yes probably at least three times per month.

I agree with quitting for time constraints, realization that it is just too much project for your available time, money and perhaps that you don't feel up to the challenge of deciphering blueprints, bad instructions etc. all just burning up valuable life time.

However, reading these posts tells me you have lots of company, that made ME feel better and is readily available here on VAF.

I recently made a friend who is starting to build a RV 10 that is helping with my motivation and is it great to have someone to 'bounce" something off of.

I am having a HUGE problem with cowling(nearly caused me to sellout)... but there are the "Cowling Chronicles" and picture of others(on VAF) to help...... this takes TIME! Do you have the time?

If you want to build this RV reach out as you have and find VAF friends, search out others who are close by who can offer support and advice and after time and money analysis are done.....KEEP BANGING those rivets with a parts book close by!

Dave
 
--Teddy Roosevelt


The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Teddy Roosevelt

well said.
 
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Teddy Roosevelt
One of my all time favorites.. Quotes like this, when truly understood and honestly considered, define who we are as human beings.
 
Eric,

Over the last thirty years I completed and flew 4 homebuilts. The RV-12 was my last. Number 3 was an Aventura single seat HP that had a scary yaw issue. I remounted the engine to adjust the thrust line which got it to fly straight at cruise power, but immediately yawed when I pulled the throttle back. I finished my RV-12 and was in the process of remounting the HP vertical stab to fix the aerodynamic issue when I walked into the hangar one day and had an epiphany: why screw around with a death trap when I had a beautiful little RV-12 to fly? That was moment I decided my building days were through and sold off the HP and a Dr I project.

Nothing wrong with deciding it's just not what you want to do.

Rich
 
Towel Time

Eric,
A man has to do what he has to do. Don't beat your self up! We don't know what your real situation might be. If it is just frustration from making building mistakes, Well Your In GOOD Company!! We all have horror stories of failure while building our projects that made us feel we were incompetent, stupid, and embarrassed etc... Now they are just funny learning lessons that happened in our lives. I once got so frustrated that I stopped working on mine for 4 months and it was in my garage where I had to go by it every time I fed the dog or took the trash out. But the urge finally came back to play with all the tools and aluminum again. Building a airplane is like eating a elephant, small pieces at a time. What ever your decision is, I'm sure it's the right decision for you. Good Luck!

Rod Estep
RV-8,
five yrs and three days to build. those last three days were the longest part
 
Never quit. Rest, take a break if you have to, get some assistance with the current challenge and keep moving forward at your own pace. You may not be saticefied if you quit.

Bevan
 
I hit that point also when I started working on the panel and seriously thought I could not finish the plane, and this was my second plane! I just felt overwhelmed at the thought of what was left to do when I was finally getting close. A couple weeks break from the project to regroup and some encouragement from my building buddy got me through it.
 
Lots of good advice and interesting perspectives here, but maybe we should just wait for the man to report back. Last seen (post #15), he'd calmed down and ordered new parts, so he's clearly not ready to quit yet.
 
Lots of good advice and interesting perspectives here, but maybe we should just wait for the man to report back. Last seen (post #15), he'd calmed down and ordered new parts, so he's clearly not ready to quit yet.

Well said. I've been thinking the same thing myself. 5 pages and we still don't really know what the problem was.

Anyway, the real takeaway for me, from this discussion, is that if a person gets at all discouraged just let it be known on this forum and there are lots of others who have been in the same situation that are willing to offer their encouragement. Says a lot for the folks here. :)

Jim
 
The support you all have given this guy speaks volumes about the quality of the forum membership here. As a member of several LSA forums, it does not get any better.
My hat is off to all of you who have contributed to this thread and attempted to help him out.

Almost makes me want to start building something.


[ed. I couldn?t agree more! You put into words almost exactly what I was thinking.
v/r,dr]
 
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