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Parachute requirements?

D

Discus2b

Well Known Member
What are parachute requirements while performing aerobatics?
None? Single pilot vs. with a passenger?

Thanks,

R
 
Here?s your FAR definition:

14 CFR ? 91.307 - Parachutes and parachuting.
CFR
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? 91.307 Parachutes and parachuting.
(a) No pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a parachute that is available for emergency use to be carried in that aircraft unless it is an approved type and has been packed by a certificated and appropriately rated parachute rigger -

(1) Within the preceding 180 days, if its canopy, shrouds, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or other similar synthetic fiber or materials that are substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, or other fungi and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or

(2) Within the preceding 60 days, if any part of the parachute is composed of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber or materials not specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section.

(b) Except in an emergency, no pilot in command may allow, and no person may conduct, a parachute operation from an aircraft within the United States except in accordance with part 105 of this chapter.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds -

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to -

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by -

(i) A certificated flight instructor; or

(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with ? 61.67 of this chapter.

(e) For the purposes of this section, approved parachute means -

(1) A parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a technical standard order (C-23 series); or

(2) A personnel-carrying military parachute identified by an NAF, AAF, or AN drawing number, an AAF order number, or any other military designation or specification number.
 
Mark has shown the reg above, but I believe the simple answer for aerobatics is: If you have a passenger, you both must have on approved parachutes. If you are alone, no parachute is required. The FAA does not care if you kill only yourself. :D
 
A parachute in an RV would be all for show and to fulfill the FAA passenger regs because I don't know how in the world you'd get out in time.
 
Thanks, a lot more lenient than I thought. I skipped by this section thinking it pertained to skydiving.
Cheers
R
 
I watched the Fly Chops episode where they flew upside down in several RVs at the factory with out chutes. In the comments section someone mentioned "crew". Since I instruct, I was curious. AOPA lawyer said no. Chutes need to be worn. I did talk to a DFW FSDO Inspector he told me I could basically do any "unusual attitudes" I wanted to teach in the interest of training. However a full acro routine would be hard to defend. Sooo, sometimes some CFIs may instruct without chutes and that's ok. But, recreational acro with pax...legally you need chutes.

FWIW
 
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Is there any recorded evidence of a person/s exiting any RV whilst airborne?

I think you would need to be Chuck Yeager to confidently exit an RV if a wing snapped off or something that dramatic!
 
NewbRVator said:
A parachute in an RV would be all for show and to fulfill the FAA passenger regs because I don't know how in the world you'd get out in time.
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Yep no. Regs require a Chute to deploy in 3 seconds. If you are in level flight and you depart the plane at 1000 ft. AGL, you will not hit the ground.** Chutes have saved the lives of many aerobatics, sport plane, vintage war bird, glider pilots.

The debate about egress from tip up, slider, tip over, gull wing canopies/doors has been discussed ad nauseam. Ejection of canopy or door is a given.

** If you are bailing out pull the "D" ring on chute immediately. Don't think you are going to get into some stable skydiver pose. The chute will straighten you out fast.
 
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flyinhood said:
I watched the Fly Chops episode where they flew upside down in several RVs at the factory with out chutes. In the comments section someone mentioned "crew".
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Nonsense. The RV is a single-crew aircraft. It would be really hard to say that a potential purchaser who has never been in the type before would be any use as Crew.

Sooo, sometimes some CFIs may instruct without chutes and that's ok. But, recreational acro with pax...legally you need chutes.
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Yes, the regs do say that when it's for instruction chutes aren't required... 91.307.d.2. So an instructor is perfectly legal doing this, but as you say, a recreational flight is a no-no.

The FAA (and TC) have gone after people who have posted videos on YouTube showing blatant reg violations like this.
 
Snowflake said:
Yes, the regs do say that when it's for instruction chutes aren't required... 91.307.d.2. So an instructor is perfectly legal doing this, but as you say, a recreational flight is a no-no.

The FAA (and TC) have gone after people who have posted videos on YouTube showing blatant reg violations like this.
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Read the following carefully:

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to -

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by -

(i) A certificated flight instructor; or

(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with § 61.67 of this chapter.​

Note that not all aerobatic instruction is exempt from the chute requirement, only maneuvers required for ratings and certificates.

Skylor
 
gmcjetpilot said:
Yep no. Regs require a Chute to deploy in 3 seconds. If you are in level flight and you depart the plane at 1000 ft. AGL, you will not hit the ground.** Chutes have saved the lives of many aerobatics, sport plane, vintage war bird, glider pilots.

The debate about egress from tip up, slider, tip over, gull wing canopies/doors has been discussed ad nauseam. Ejection of canopy or door is a given.

** If you are bailing out pull the "D" ring on chute immediately. Don't think you are going to get into some stable skydiver pose. The chute will straighten you out fast.
Click to expand...

Hi Gmcjetpilot

Are you saying solo aerobatics still needs a chute? Thanks I appreciate your responses.
 
skylor said:
Read the following carefully:

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to -

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by -

(i) A certificated flight instructor; or

(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with ? 61.67 of this chapter.​

Note that not all aerobatic instruction is exempt from the chute requirement, only maneuvers required for ratings and certificates.

Skylor
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This is correct. Specifically, bank angles not over 60 deg, pitch angles needed to teach unusual attitudes and stalls, and spins, are allowed to be taught by cfi?s without chutes. Nothing else, nothing inverted for sure.
 
skylor said:
Note that not all aerobatic instruction is exempt from the chute requirement, only maneuvers required for ratings and certificates.
Click to expand...
Ah, right... And with no rating or certificate for aerobatics, that makes sense.
 
Saville said:
So pictures or videos of kids in the plane during acro without chutes, are not good things.
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Not in the US. In Canada it's fine, as we don't have the parachute requirement. It's still a good idea to wear one, although most don't.
 
BobTurner said:
This is correct. Specifically, bank angles not over 60 deg, pitch angles needed to teach unusual attitudes and stalls, and spins, are allowed to be taught by cfi?s without chutes. Nothing else, nothing inverted for sure.
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DFW FSDO Inspector told me that I can teach unusual attitudes past 60 / 30 for the interest of aircraft checkout. Not rides. He specifically told me to include a log book endorsement of the student so the flight was legally "training".

For example, A Split S is a great wake recovery maneuver. It demonstrates airspeed build up and G awareness.
 
flyinhood said:
DFW FSDO Inspector told me that I can teach unusual attitudes past 60 / 30 for the interest of aircraft checkout. Not rides. He specifically told me to include a log book endorsement of the student so the flight was legally "training".
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I hope you got that in writing on FSDO letterhead. At the very least, that inspector has likely exceeded his authority in making such a ruling (even advising you to make a phony logbook entry!!!!) and you'd be very wise, indeed, to give it the zero credence it merits. That inspector ought to be reported before he causes and/or tacitly approves any other stupid and illegal behavior.

For example, A Split S is a great wake recovery maneuver. It demonstrates airspeed build up and G awareness.
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However true that may be, it is not required training for any certificate or rating and, so, does not exempt one from the requirement for all onboard to wear a parachute.

Looking for ways around regulations (up to and, apparently, including fraudulent logbook entries) is both illegal and immoral and, regardless, is no way to approach flying, let alone go through life.
 
As an active IAC member and regular IAC competitor a parachute is just part of my regular routine. The regs are pretty clear on this...

My question is...why would you not want one?

Its like insurance. You are annoyed paying for it and having to go though the process of getting it....but when you need it (insurance -or- parachute) your darn gald you have it.

Responding to the post above about altitude and being safe before hitting the ground. All emergency chutes are quick deploy and rapid fill. They will usually save your butt as low as 3-400 feet deploying. BUT... the more important question is egressing the aircraft and the decision to do it.

I see a lot of RV videos of pilots doing acro around what appears to be 2-3,000. A mechanical failure at that height leaves a few seconds before having to make the decision and act of getting out of the plane. I would highly encourage to add a few more thousand feet.

Part of my preflight routine is to verbally say in what circumstances I plan to jump out of the plane. I also set a hard deck that no maneuver is initiated below.

A split S is a pretty dangerous maneuver....especially in an RV. Its easy to gain speed, approach Vne and build up G's pretty quick. Also, once you start it there is no going back. ITs probably viewed as a benign maneuver, but has probably killed more pilots than people realize.

Just my 2 cents.
 
How Many?

This discussion has been ongoing for years. Bet the weight of the ink expended is pretty close to the combined weight of all those who have bailed out of an RV.
 
kbalch said:
I hope you got that in writing on FSDO letterhead. At the very least, that inspector has likely exceeded his authority in making such a ruling (even advising you to make a phony logbook entry!!!!) and you'd be very wise, indeed, to give it the zero credence it merits. That inspector ought to be reported before he causes and/or tacitly approves any other stupid and illegal behavior.



However true that may be, it is not required training for any certificate or rating and, so, does not exempt one from the requirement for all onboard to wear a parachute.

Looking for ways around regulations (up to and, apparently, including fraudulent logbook entries) is both illegal and immoral and, regardless, is no way to approach flying, let alone go through life.
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You can report an North Dallas FSDO Inspector all you want and NOTHING comes of it. I reported two of them and NOTHING. One of them gave my ROTORCRAFT-Gyroplane ops limits an entry that required me to have a Single Engine AIRPLANE certificate in order to fly it. He didn't want to remove that limitation even after I reported him to Washington. It's all useless unless you get a supervisor with a little bit of common sense.
 
mciaglia said:
As an active IAC member and regular IAC competitor a parachute is just part of my regular routine. The regs are pretty clear on this...

My question is...why would you not want one?

Its like insurance. You are annoyed paying for it and having to go though the process of getting it....but when you need it (insurance -or- parachute) your darn gald you have it.

Responding to the post above about altitude and being safe before hitting the ground. All emergency chutes are quick deploy and rapid fill. They will usually save your butt as low as 3-400 feet deploying. BUT... the more important question is egressing the aircraft and the decision to do it.

I see a lot of RV videos of pilots doing acro around what appears to be 2-3,000. A mechanical failure at that height leaves a few seconds before having to make the decision and act of getting out of the plane. I would highly encourage to add a few more thousand feet.

Part of my preflight routine is to verbally say in what circumstances I plan to jump out of the plane. I also set a hard deck that no maneuver is initiated below.

A split S is a pretty dangerous maneuver....especially in an RV. Its easy to gain speed, approach Vne and build up G's pretty quick. Also, once you start it there is no going back. ITs probably viewed as a benign maneuver, but has probably killed more pilots than people realize.

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I prefer Immelmanns, more fun and I'm flying away from the hard surface.
 
pvalovich said:
This discussion has been ongoing for years. Bet the weight of the ink expended is pretty close to the combined weight of all those who have bailed out of an RV.
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The problem with this question is that the sample set you define is pretty small. How many people fly acro in an RV and how many of those use a parachute? It's like asking how many people with the name Oliver were saved by seat belts on a Sunday morning driving to the airport. Even if the answer is 0 it says little about the value of seat belts.

If you look at just the RV competitors which are forced to wear one by IAC rules during practice and competition I am not aware of any accidents while doing acro. I do personally know one glider pilot who is alive because he had a parachute and you can find a couple of stories of acro pilots (even though not in RVs) which clearly survived because of a parachute.

Now the question of how realistic is it to get out the answer is it depends. There was a pretty good article in Aerobatics (IAC magazine) which showed that to successfully bail if your airplane is in a downward attitude even a prepared pilot will need around 6000feet altitude to start with. This sounds quite reasonable to me and even though I compete at 1500 feet I try out new things at 6000 feet or above to give myself a chance. I would recommend that even during flight testing in particular when doing your first spins and you don't know yet if your airplane will actually recover yet.

Also not all accidents happen in downward attitudes and in those cases people have bailed pretty low. E.g. my glider friend had a control system failure in level flight at pattern altitude and bailed successfully.

For me the decision is pretty easy. IAC tells me I have to have a parachute to play and as I have one I can as well wear it always. Why not?

Oliver
p.s. My bigger issue with this whole thing is the repacking interval. My manufacturer (Strong) says annually but the FAA says 180 days. So even though there is no safety reason to repack twice a year (most of the world does annually) I am forced to do it anyway by some outdated regulation... .
 
"(2) Within the preceding 60 days, if any part of the parachute is composed of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber or materials not specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section."

This portion of the reg says a lot about its currency. Right on the money when Glenn Curtis was doing his testing!
 
wcalvert said:
"(2) Within the preceding 60 days, if any part of the parachute is composed of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber or materials not specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section."

This portion of the reg says a lot about its currency. Right on the money when Glenn Curtis was doing his testing!
Click to expand...

What are they made of now? I have an old Air Force parachute that I used with my Citabria decades ago that?s been sitting packed for years in my hangar I?d never use unless checked but I also can?t remember what it?s made of.
 
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