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Cirrus & an RV-10

SteinAir

Well Known Member
Hi All,

I had a rather intersting day today! I ended up in Duluth in some meetings at Cirrus Design (no nothing worth rumoring about so please don't ask....we can't tell and neither can Tim) with some colorful characters. Perhaps the most interesting was the fact that my chariot was none other than Tim Olson's RV-10 (with Tim flying of course). The whole experience had some rather funny points worth mentioning....

First, all the controllers thought the plane was an Cirrus (from the time we left MSP)...probably because his N Number ends in "CD" - which is what Cirrus uses for a lot/most of their planes. I know they noticed but didn't say much.

Second, we didn't exactly know where to park in front of the Cirrus factory, so we just pulled up and parked at the end of a row of new planes. Turns out this is the "new plane delivery" section...with all the finished planes. Tims plane was on the end of the row for everyone to see. Lots of people noticed (a few mentioned the "homebuilt" parked there), but overall there were lots of good questions from the Cirrus executives.

Third, we were in a conference room most of the day with Cirrus folks, including Dale Klapmier - the conference room incidentally overlooked the parked/finished planes. Dale K asked quite a lot about the RV-10, and was quite surprised that we flew up there at 170kts true, loaded up the RV-10 with fat people/parts and LOTS of heat with really low fuel burns.

This worthless post really doesn't have much of a point other than to underscore just what a phenomenal machine the RV10 is. We had Tims plane loaded up with people, parts, etc.. The temperature was about 11 degrees F when we left his morning and we could have easily flown in t-shirts. We had to turn the heat down actually. The Lycoming purred perfectly, although one of our other esteemed passengers (who also has an RV-10 with an Aerocomposite 3 blade) commented that his prop was noticeably smoother. I didn't notice because I thought is was plenty smooth anyway.

We got to spend some really valuable time in the factory examining various things and learned a lot. Mostly we learned that for half the price you can get a plane that is almost equally as good. Their interiors and panels are unbelievable (as is the paint/finish)...it's where a good share of the cost adds up.

Anyway, if you're still building use this as a dumb motivational story. The RV-10 is an awesome plane. All the people in Tim's plane today were over 6' tall, and nobody had any tightness in the cockpit at all! The autopilot worked flawlessly, and having those Cheltons up front was REALLY nice!

Have a great week,
Stein
 
Cool Story Stein!
Thanks for sharing! By the way are you still coming out to DE anytime soon?
If you are you gotta let me buy you lunch and check out the 8, just in case you don't see enough RVs:D
 
My brother and I have commented (at every major fly-in for last two years) that the RV-10 looks to be every bit the plane a Cirrus is. From the numbers I see, it also has the performance. Thanks for confirming those observations, Stein. :D

Terry
 
RV10

Stein,

Sounds like you all had a great time...........BTW you should have received a Christmas package Monday. Any additional news on that Cirrus that crashed in Faribault, MN with Dr. Mayo and family aboard? They discuss it at Cirrus?

Also, we now have 3 flying RV10's in NE with 2 more to be flying in the next 60 days. #6 should be flying by Summer 2008. I agree .........the RV10 is an ok plane. After the ice storm Tues. the Weekend is looking good..........can I get a SL30 wired then? :)


DEAN
 
Related Experience

At our EAA Chapter 732 Christmas Party Sunday one of our very special members was missing. His wife Ada said that he was at Cirrus. I suspect that was a very interesting meeting.

Bob Axsom
 
Oops.. the bag is empty.. where's the cat? :)


So they're going certified? That'd be really cool.. a lot of competition is needed in the certified market...
 
Now you've done it Stein. You have stimulated the minds of homebuilders and they are relentless in their investigation abilities.

If I had to guess guys, lawyers are involved! Or, Stein is ordering a matching set (SR-22, Cirrus Jet) for his company to travel around in.
 
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I could toss in a little speculation material.....

Suppose, just suppose, that they wanted to build an ALUMINUM 4-seat aircraft as their jet, and they thought that the RV-10 would make a good starting point....and that they were wanting to modify my -10 to hold one of their super top secret jet engines, and change the wings to swept wings, perhaps make it geared towards being a supersonic aircraft....tha's right, a supersonic RV-10J(et)...

Stein was there because he's going to be the first customer for his company jet.

That should keep those people who just love this sort of mystery stewing for a while. <LOL!!>

I'll tell you what, when you tour the factory there, you can't help but come away impressed. They're every bit as quality and process oriented as any high tech company I've ever seen.

Tim
 
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The Jets

Hi,

Stein (in his infinite generosity) is giving all of his employees The Jet for Xmas. Either that or a SteinAir T-shirt.
 
I could toss in a little speculation material.....


.....They're every bit as quality and process oriented as any high tech company I've ever seen.

Tim

Interesting to note (and quite typical for Tim) that Tim pointed out to me whilst walking around the factory a sign they had hanging up somewhere that proudly said "36 months accident free" (or something along those lines) - he made sure to ask me how long I've made it accident free....all the while looking at my stumpy finger! :)

I tell ya'.....with friends like that......

Cheers,
Stein
 
Interesting to note (and quite typical for Tim) that Tim pointed out to me whilst walking around the factory a sign they had hanging up somewhere that proudly said "36 months accident free" (or something along those lines) - he made sure to ask me how long I've made it accident free....all the while looking at my stumpy finger! :)

I tell ya'.....with friends like that......

Cheers,
Stein


Stein,
You could tell Tim (with a note of justifyable pride in your voice) that you've also been accident free for 36.......well, hours anyway.... :D
 
So it can be definitively said that, "The first RV-10J will use the SteinAir Flux Capacitor!" Can I quote you on that? :)

Who even knew Stein was working on a Flux Capacitor?

I could toss in a little speculation material.....

Suppose, just suppose, that they wanted to build an ALUMINUM 4-seat aircraft as their jet, and they thought that the RV-10 would make a good starting point....and that they were wanting to modify my -10 to hold one of their super top secret jet engines, and change the wings to swept wings, perhaps make it geared towards being a supersonic aircraft....tha's right, a supersonic RV-10J(et)...

Stein was there because he's going to be the first customer for his company jet.

That should keep those people who just love this sort of mystery stewing for a while. <LOL!!>

I'll tell you what, when you tour the factory there, you can't help but come away impressed. They're every bit as quality and process oriented as any high tech company I've ever seen.

Tim
 
Cirrus Factory

I know Duluth MN is way up north, but the factory tour is well worth the travel. Very impressive to anyone who has tried to run a factory before.

After the tour you can feel really good that you can build a 10 with all the performance of a Cirrus for a fraction of the price. And you can have a great time doing it too.
 
Cirrus vs RV-10

I just happened on this thread, so I guess I'll post some information that we gathered when we had an SR-22 Turbo visit us a couple of weeks ago. We wanted to compare the RV-10 to the SR-22 to see just how much faster the Cirrus was and just how much quicker the RV-10 took off and climbed.

First of all, both planes had fuel for roughly the same traveling distance, which would mean more fuel in the Cirrus, but not by a lot. Both planes had pilot plus passenger totaling roughly the same weight, so for the sake of the test, we think it was a good comparison. Of course, the Cirrus was heavier in itself, had a little more weight in fuel because of the higher fuel burn, and had air conditioning (I think) and the de-ice system. But, from what I have heard and seen, the Cirrus needs the de-ice for IFR flying because it doesn't carry ice well, and in my experience the -10 does carry ice quite well. So, the comparison was not exact, although the Cirrus did have the A/C off for the tests. It is a heavier plane, and nobody can help that. But, it does have over 300 HP and the RV-10 we compared it to has 250, so that should make up for the weight.

So, the take-off and climb to 3,000 test. The RV-10 was off in half the distance and was at 3,000 when the Cirrus was climbing through 2,000. I'm sure most aren't surprised by this.

The low-speed pass was equally not-surprising, but pilot comfort could have easily played a part in this. The -10 was much slower than the Cirrus in slow flight.

The high-speed pass (1,000 feet WOT side-by-side) was the surprise. The Cirrus has a turbo, but that probably didn't play much of a roll in this test, because it is just turbo-normalized, so 30" is the max MAP out of it. The -10, though, might not have been quite making 30". I didn't get a number on fuel burn, but I am sure that the Cirrus was putting about 30gph through while the RV-10 was using about 24gph, based on HP. The -10 was faster! We did it twice because we couldn't believe it. The RV-10 probably had about 2-3 knots on the Cirrus! I know this wouldn't hold true at altitude because of the turbo, but we were blown away that it came out this way. We were expecting the Cirrus by 5 knots or so.

Also, the Cirrus was about 2.5x the price of the -10, and total cost of ownership is at least that much in comparison, with owner/builder condition inspection and maintenance.

Oh, and the RV-10 had our wing root fairings on, which, in our testing, has given us 3-5 knots, so in my mind that made us faster.
 
Fairings?

Jesse,

Sounds like you have a really fast -10. Mind posting a few pictures/test results of your fairings?

-DC
 
I'm racing one at altitude....

...on Friday. We'll be leaving Spruce Creek to visit Jesse and Co. at Dunnellon while my buddy and his brand new 22 and I will face off at 7500' DA, hopefully. Stay tuned...his is the non-turbo version and we'll be two-up in both airplanes.

Best,
 
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