VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-3
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-29-2016, 01:03 PM
Tony Spicer Tony Spicer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 513
Default

David,

Most likely I'll be the only one you'll hear from that's built both an RV-3B and a Panther. With an O-320 in the Panther there won't be a nickel's worth of performance difference between the two airplanes. Because the Panther uses piano hinges for the ailerons, you might notice slightly higher stick forces when rolling at higher speeds. Cockpit is every bit as large as the RV-8. Seat and rudder pedal locations are adjusted during the build.

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-29-2016, 01:04 PM
ppilotmike's Avatar
ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Spicer View Post
David,

With an O-320 in the Panther there won't be a nickel's worth of performance difference between the two airplanes.
Tony
That's news to me, Tony.. but GOOD news.. Glad to hear it.
__________________
Mike Rettig
EAA Chapter 301, President www.eaa301.org
VAF Dues Current: as of 01/15/18
RV-10 (41PX Reserved) Fuselage
F-14 (Pedal Plane - Daughter's Project) "Flying"
http://www.mykitlog.com/mikrettig
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-30-2016, 05:26 AM
Larry DeCamp's Avatar
Larry DeCamp Larry DeCamp is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clinton, Indiana
Posts: 648
Default 3B Pirep

Tony's observations are obviously credible since he has owned both planes. I was seriously considering a Panther for my next project because of the more enjoyable build conveniences AND you can fold the wings and take it home to work on it.
I have not found the 3B to be the fabled Ultimate Flying Machine as oft suggested. My friends -4 is much lighter in stick for rolls. This may be the -8 aileron bellcrank or my thin trailing edge ailerons. I am currently fabbing new ailerons.
Per Dan W, Panther Designer, the piano hinge ailerons will not be upgraded to Friese style for "RV type performance" due to some engineering limitations. That said, per Tony's input, the panther is probably a delightful ship. Also, Dan has commented that Lyc 0320 Panthers end up about 825 to 850lb with some W&B to be managed. My 3B with 0320 is 762lb. I conclude the Panther is heavier as result of the design build conveniences like folding wings, 4130 tube fuse frame etc. I concluded a 100Hp Panther at low 700lb was the sweetest config.
All that said, I just bought -4 so my input is sincerely unbiased!!!
__________________
Larry DeCamp
RV-3B flying w/ carb & Pmags
RV-4 fastback w/ Superior EXP 0360 /AFP & CPI
Clinton, IN
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-30-2016, 11:20 AM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 11,685
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry DeCamp View Post
Tony's observations are obviously credible since he has owned both planes. I was seriously considering a Panther for my next project because of the more enjoyable build conveniences AND you can fold the wings and take it home to work on it.
I have not found the 3B to be the fabled Ultimate Flying Machine as oft suggested. My friends -4 is much lighter in stick for rolls. This may be the -8 aileron bellcrank or my thin trailing edge ailerons. I am currently fabbing new ailerons.
Per Dan W, Panther Designer, the piano hinge ailerons will not be upgraded to Friese style for "RV type performance" due to some engineering limitations. That said, per Tony's input, the panther is probably a delightful ship. Also, Dan has commented that Lyc 0320 Panthers end up about 825 to 850lb with some W&B to be managed. My 3B with 0320 is 762lb. I conclude the Panther is heavier as result of the design build conveniences like folding wings, 4130 tube fuse frame etc. I concluded a 100Hp Panther at low 700lb was the sweetest config.
All that said, I just bought -4 so my input is sincerely unbiased!!!
It will be interesting to see what your new ailerons do Larry. I have flown most of the single seaters on today's market, and nothing is as light as our RV-3 in roll. Aileron trailing edges make a huge difference - I have flown one -8 that was so light in roll it was almost effortless - and that's a much heavier aircraft. It just had nicely formed ailerons.
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor in Chief - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-30-2016, 12:18 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 7,748
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
I have flown one -8 that was so light in roll it was almost effortless - and that's a much heavier aircraft. It just had nicely formed ailerons.
In reality Paul, it probably had mis-formed trailing edges on the ailerons which can make the control forces lighter (and lower in effectiveness vs amount of displacement) than desired.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-30-2016, 04:40 PM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 11,685
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
In reality Paul, it probably had mis-formed trailing edges on the ailerons which can make the control forces lighter (and lower in effectiveness vs amount of displacement) than desired.
You're right Scott - that's what I meant to imply, but I got distracted in the post.
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor in Chief - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-30-2016, 09:07 PM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,489
Default

Response from Gus at Vans on new RV-3 question

David,
Think of a 1960s Mini (the car, not the skirt, you old dog). Now look at the current “Mini” for the 21st century. Or the VW Beetle. Only the name remains.

The issue is not tooling, it’s thousands of hours redesigning/redrawing all the parts, and writing the assembly manual. 4-5 engineers/drafters/proto builders for who knows how long to make it to the standard of the RV-12/14 kits and plans. Plus, of course, a complete makeover to raise the gross weight to fit corn syrup fed pilots who want to install all the latest Autopilots, ADS-B, IFR devices, backup alternators, IO-390, CS props etc. Suddenly, you’re looking at a whole new airplane. For that development expense, it has to be a 2 seater to access a larger market, or any reasonable ROI would not be there. Now we’re cannibalizing the RV-8 sales…and unless you’ve got a neck like an owl the RV-8 is a single seat fighter once you’re strapped in.

The next RV has to be an amphibious, aerobatic, roadable, VTOL jet to errrr… shift the paradigm, revolutionize GA, “democratize personal flight” and provide employment opportunities for disruptive MBA buzzwords. And just as soon as we can find a sucker accredited investor to loan us a few million, we’ll get right to work on it.
Happy New Year! Enjoy your RV-8.

Gus Funnell
Van's Aircraft, Inc.
14401 Keil Rd NE
Aurora, Oregon 97002
503.678.6545


I shall continue to enjoy flying the RV-8 and stop RV-3 dreaming. As Gus says, once you strap on the 8 it is easy to imagine being in a single seat fighter.

My 8 is light on the ailerons, two finger operation. Is that undesirable? How does one measure "effectiveness" of an aileron? The rate of roll is very rapid.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2018 This place is worth it!

Last edited by David-aviator : 12-30-2016 at 09:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-30-2016, 10:01 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 7,748
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post

My 8 is light on the ailerons, two finger operation. Is that undesirable? How does one measure "effectiveness" of an aileron? The rate of roll is very rapid.
My comment was based on Paul's comment of sounding like the particular 8 he was speaking of had ailerons even lighter than his RV-3 (though I may have misinterpreted that).
Two finger flight in an 8 is not necessarily undesirable, unless you are talking about two fingers to full stick deflection, that probably is.
It is very difficult to speak in specifics, without speaking in specifics (actual pounds of force, etc.). Just like your description of the rate of roll being very rapid. Most pilots with only Cessna/Piper experience at first introduction think that the RV-10 has a rapid roll rate. It does, compared to what they are used to flying, but it is not nearly as rapid as an RV-3. There in is the problem with text descriptions.........
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-31-2016, 01:42 AM
joeboisselle joeboisselle is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: White Swan Wa.
Posts: 359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
I've sent a message to Vans to consider a market survey to see if the investment in tooling to offer a pre punched kit would make sense.

If you are interested, do not hesitate to let them know.

I am presently a little bored, if there were such a kit I would go for it.
What if they made a single seater that was a little bigger like... the size of an extra 300. Something that felt more "aircraft" and less "flying beer can"
__________________
Joe Boisselle
2010 RV-4
1941 Luscombe 8C

Last edited by joeboisselle : 12-31-2016 at 01:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-31-2016, 08:29 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,489
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
My comment was based on Paul's comment of sounding like the particular 8 he was speaking of had ailerons even lighter than his RV-3 (though I may have misinterpreted that).
Two finger flight in an 8 is not necessarily undesirable, unless you are talking about two fingers to full stick deflection, that probably is.
It is very difficult to speak in specifics, without speaking in specifics (actual pounds of force, etc.). Just like your description of the rate of roll being very rapid. Most pilots with only Cessna/Piper experience at first introduction think that the RV-10 has a rapid roll rate. It does, compared to what they are used to flying, but it is not nearly as rapid as an RV-3. There in is the problem with text descriptions.........
Thanks.
I've had a ride in Bill Peyton's 10, it has good control response but not as quick as the 8.
No surprise, it is a larger airplane. The 3 and 4 are quicker than the 8, I am told.
In any event, I am very satisfied flying the RV-8.

And I have something to do in the near future, a friend needs help installing a 0540 in his emerging Moose, I can lend a hand. That will be interesting.

By end of January I will be walking the beach at Sanibel.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2018 This place is worth it!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:26 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.