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Window install

How did you attach the windows in your RV 10??

  • Weld on

    Votes: 26 45.6%

  • Epoxy

    Votes: 7 12.3%

  • Hysol

    Votes: 2 3.5%

  • Sika

    Votes: 13 22.8%

  • Other---please explain

    Votes: 9 15.8%
  • Total voters
    57
Mike S

Mike S

Senior Curmudgeon
For those who have gone before---------

Anyone out there have advice for installing the windows????

Weld on??

Epoxy??

Sika??

Any pitfalls to watch out for???

I will be getting to the windows soon as the fuse gets back from the upholstery shop where it is getting its headliner installed.

All advice welcome, and appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
I did my windows last summer. After lots of dithering and worrying I came perilously close to using Hysol until I read Rob Hickmans posts about his Hysol experience. I looked at several of the other options and even bought the expensive video for one of the methods. In the end, I went with the Weld-On and had no problems at all. I had my wife and a friend working with me and we had everything prepared and were able to work quickly. We installed with the cabin top off, so that made it a bit easier to access all areas. The Weld-On was not difficult to use and was not as runny as I had expected.
 
Thanks David, yeah, forgot to list Hysol-----and I just talked to my neighbor with a Lancair about it yesterday.

Might be time to add a poll.........
 
I don't know what Rob Hickmans experiences with hysol is, but i know when used properly that stuff will hold in your windows.

yes, nearly all lancairs use it, but you should know there is fiberglass or carbon laid over it as well.

I don't know how the rv10 window is shown to be attached by the build manual, so i can't say much if hysol would be a good match for that, you do need around a good 1.5-2 inches of overlap for a nice bond with lots of sanding on the plastic to be bonded
 
used Weld on #10

Mike;
If you use "fingers" to hold the windows onto the frame weld-on works very well without any issues or crazing.

Pascal Reid
RV-10
 
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ReidVaitor said:
Mike;
If you use "fingers" to hold the windows onto the frame weld-on works very well without any issues or crazing.

Pascal Reid
RV-10
Click to expand...
I also used the fingers and carbo-sil to thicken it a little so there was no significant running problems
 
I thickend the Weldon with colloidal silica, (Cabosil) to be like peanut butter, no drip or runs.

Used a double layer of vinyl tape on the inside of the windows, cut the weld-back when still wet them pulled the first layer of tape. Caulked the window edge with paintable silicone. Painted the interior. Striped last tape.

I used the handymans secret weapon to apply the clamping force.

No issues seen.

Eric Gohr
The last push before moving to the airport. Checking everything 3 times.
 
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to all who have responded, so far.

Looks like most folks have just followed Vans plans-----surprise surprise:rolleyes:

Next question, Weld on has an expiration date----and all of mine is past that.

Is this stuff still safe to use, or is this a case of my being tempted to be "penny wise, pound foolish"??

Once again, Thanks in advance.

William, thanks for the link
 
Thanks here also. I'll be gooping windows in a week or so. I was quite surprised when I originally found out we use Weld-on. I would have guessed Proseal.
 
windows...

the guys over on the Matronics list were advocating Silpruf. An industrial application of silicone rubber. I bought some and it was sticky as heck but was also pretty good to use.
use popsickle sticks with clecos at the edges to hold the window in tight.
 
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If you use "fingers" to hold the windows onto the frame?

Can someone explain please. Thanks.:eek:
 
Janekom
If you use clamps, it's thought that the presure from the clamps allows perhaps heat to build up and causes crazing directly under the clamp. If presure could be applied farther in from the edges,(where clamps cannot reach) such as with finger presure, crazing should not occure. One would have to hold this presure for a short while (I don't know for how long, perhaps 15 min.)
Some people are installing the side windows before installing the cabin to the fuselage. By rotating the cabin top weights can be used to apply this presure as with the doors.
Hope this helps
 
Thanks Rob! That is what I have assumed, but was not sure. Just an idea for the rear windows if the cabin is installed. I think a ratchet strap around the fuselage, with a cushioned wooden block in the center of the window will work well.
 
Janekom said:
If you use "fingers" to hold the windows onto the frame?

Can someone explain please. Thanks.:eek:
Click to expand...

See here: http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/09Finish/finish45p.html

Use a tongue depressor and apply Weld-On #10 to both the window and the frame. The fingers hold the window flush with the canopy top and apply "just enough" pressure for adhesion.

Finish45p.jpg
 
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fingers

for the "fingers" you can use popsickle sticks from any craft store. Or perhaps tongue depressors if you have access to them.
 
Job wel-d-on-e

After spending considerable time contemplating other options, I decided to use Van's recomendation.
My first experience with weld-on.
It is exceptionally strong. It works fast.

I learned that crazing will occur if too much pressure is applied to the plexi.
On one of my rear windows I used a strap with a piece of styrofoam to apply pressure and did not realize that a small spot half way up the window received the brunt of the clamping force.
That spot will be covered with paint and or fiberglass so I am not concerned.
Weld on does not work well to create a fillet to finish off the transition from window to frame. It is sticky and forms a skin almost immediately after application. I cleaned around the seam while it was still wet and used epoxy filler to finish off that transition. On the outside I simply sanded the extra weld-on off after it was cured. Easier than smearing it all over the place.
IMG_0248.JPG


IMG_0271.JPG
 
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Expired Weld-On

Mike,
On using, or not using, the expired Weld-On, I would apply some judgement here. How much past the expiration date is it? Has it been kept in a cool or hot enviroonment. Both time and heat will degrade it. If kept at room temperature I wouldn't be concerned if it was a few months past the date. If refrigerated, it is probably good for a year or more.
 
Nukeflyboy said:
Mike,
On using, or not using, the expired Weld-On, I would apply some judgement here. How much past the expiration date is it? Has it been kept in a cool or hot enviroonment. Both time and heat will degrade it. If kept at room temperature I wouldn't be concerned if it was a few months past the date. If refrigerated, it is probably good for a year or more.
Click to expand...

I wish it was only a few months------3 or 4 years is more like it.

And, stored out in a hangar without air conditioning.

New stuff needed for sure, but I am going to be using the old for a fix on the pool pump, so all is not wasted.

Thanks for the input.
 
I did not like all the holes in the "pink dome" so I got an idea to use Superglue as we know it here. Worked quite well to hold the "fingers" :)
rv10_28.jpg
 
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Window Adhesive test...

I was going to install my windows using SilPruf. I like how it looks, and that it is flexible.
Another RV-10 builder tested 3M 5200 and Sikaflex using a piece of left over fiberglass from the doors and an acrylic piece cut from the corner of the windshield. He suggested that we test Silpruf and another adhesive used by the Auto industry, called Winzerflex.

We let each adhesive dry for a week. The results:

5200: too rigid, did not stick to the acrylic.

SilPruf: popped off relatively easily, pried it off with a scredriver. It came off the fiberglass. Also out of all of them this was the softest, almost gooy material.

WinzerFlex: came right off the acrylic with mininal effort.

SikaFlex: It's still on there. Haven't been able to pry it off... :)

No scientific test but I just thought I throw it out there.

Here are the pictures:

P1010282.JPG


P1010284.JPG


P1010285.JPG


P1010286.JPG


Regards,
Lenny
 
sikaflex

I used sika flex on my RV-8 and I am thinking about using it on the windows of the 10. Any one had problems with sikaflex on the RV-10?
 
For those who have used Sika adhesive for the front and rear window, what size spacer did you use between the canopy and windows? The 3/16" gap recommended by Sika would seem to make the windows sit proud. I saw a post in another forum that seemed to us .035 fishing line?
 
I used Lord 7545 A/E adhesive (a 2 part adhesive) on my RV-10 windows and front windscreen based on the recommendation of Aerosport Products and my experience in using it first for the overhead console. I was doing the install in the Houston summer and other builders here said that their experience trying to use Weld-On in the summer was terrible. I used duct tape to hold the windows in place over night while the adhesive cured.

Aerosport Products sells this adhesive and also sells the gun used to apply it. It isn't cheap, but I have been satisfied with the results.
Just one builder's experience.
 
"I used Lord 7545 A/E adhesive (a 2 part adhesive) on my RV-10 windows and front windscreen based on the recommendation of Aerosport Products and my experience in using it first for the overhead console. "




How do you handle the Lord adhesive color being off white? I was entertaining not putting fiberglass around the windows (which would hide the color) Can you mix black pigment into the adhesive?
 
steve murray said:
"I used Lord 7545 A/E adhesive (a 2 part adhesive) on my RV-10 windows and front windscreen based on the recommendation of Aerosport Products and my experience in using it first for the overhead console. "




How do you handle the Lord adhesive color being off white? I was entertaining not putting fiberglass around the windows (which would hide the color) Can you mix black pigment into the adhesive?
Click to expand...

Many people mask and paint the plexi on the outside surface to match the radius of the inner edge of the fiberglass recess. That way, you don't see the adhesive, regardless of color.
 
Vinyl

I am planning on a vinyl wrap around the windows.

Pretty sure you wouldn?t have time to tint the mixed adhesive.

I spoke with the manufacturer and they do make a black adhesive...unfortunately, it has a working time of about ten minutes, which isn?t enough time..
 
rocketman1988 said:
I am planning on a vinyl wrap around the windows.

Pretty sure you wouldn?t have time to tint the mixed adhesive.

I spoke with the manufacturer and they do make a black adhesive...unfortunately, it has a working time of about ten minutes, which isn?t enough time..
Click to expand...

I looked really hard at using that. I think 10 minutes is doable, particularly if you have a good helper, who could probably provide enough assistance to shave a few minutes off of the install time.

The other thing that would probably help would be cooler temperatures. What's the cure time of that adhesive when it is 50F?
 
I really want to use a black adhesive, really want to try and glue these in and be done without having to paint, fiberglass etc.

I used the Sika on my RV8 canopy, worked great but I am concerned with the thickness they recommend raising the windows to be higher than canopy surface.

Steve
 
SilPruf - using the method detailed in the GlasStar videos on YouTube.

A very detailed and time-consuming process that gives very clean professional results. Would definitely do again.

The fellow's adhesion test results differ from what was reported on page 3, in a positive direction to say the least.
 
I used Lord's adhesive that I got from Geoff @ Aerosport. I've been flying for six years with no issues. I used it on all the windows.
 
I used the Sika 295 for all windows in my 10. The issue with Sika is that it will expand and contract with heat. I used a single 6 ounce wrap of glass over all the seams. It only took 6 months for cracks in the paint to appear around the tight bend radius areas around the front of the rear windows. On extremely hot days I can see the seams on the door windows. The windscreen shows no signs of this issue, most likely due to the large number of lay ups used and the 2 layers of fg cloth around the top and sides.
If I were to do it again I would not use the Sika product. Lord makes an adhesive that most are using that seems to work better than the weld on product. Aerosport sells this product. Just look at the factory plane glass and you will understand why I would not use the weld on.
 
Does anyone have a document or link detailing mechanical properties for Lord 7545 A/E? Tensile, shear, modulus, cured Shore, etc? I can't find the info on the Lord site.
 
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