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  #21  
Old 07-16-2018, 11:40 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
I think the NOTAM advises for the slow flying crowd to show up at 7am, also I believe that it allows passing of slower aircraft if it is safe.
You know, EVERYONE that is flying to Oshkosh should have a copy of this by now, so there is no needs to guess or spread information based on memory. Here is what the NOTAM says on Page 4 about dealing with a slower aircraft in front of you:

“Do not “S-Turn” to follow an aircraft; instead, break off the procedure; return to Ripon; and follow another aircraft of similar speed.”

Nothing there says that you can pas another aircraft between Ripon and Fisk’s - if it is in the MNOTAM., please give the page number so that we are al working to the same procedure. Please folks, no “well someone told me that.....” when it comes to the arrival!

Oh - did my practice yesterday in the airplane I am flying to the show. 1,000’ AGL (which is the 1800 MSL at Oshkosh), follow a road, 90 knots (+/- 2 in our bumpy hot air), and 1/2 mile behind Louise (who was flying the airplane she’s bringing to the show).

Paul
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  #22  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:04 PM
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Brantel Brantel is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post

Nothing there says that you can pas another aircraft between Ripon and Fisk’s - if it is in the MNOTAM., please give the page number so that we are al working to the same procedure. Please folks, no “well someone told me that.....” when it comes to the arrival!


Paul
Amen Paul!
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  #23  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:17 PM
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Planecrazy232 Planecrazy232 is online now
 
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Page 4 of the NOTAM copied and pasted:

"Proceed single file, directly over the
railroad tracks from Ripon northeast to Fisk
(10 miles). Remain at least ½ mile in-trail
behind any aircraft you are following. Do
not overtake another aircraft unless
authorized by ATC."

I had this situation two years ago and was told by ATC to overtake the slow traffic ahead.
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  #24  
Old 07-16-2018, 02:07 PM
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RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
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Default Slow Aircraft

This will be the 19th time flying my RV into AirVenture.

The NOTAM does not need revised for slow aircraft.

In the past 18-years, I have only been behind a slow aircraft once. IF you get behind a slow aircraft at your home airport, one typically will go around and resequence. The NOTAM tells us how to go around if you get behind a slow aircraft.

No big deal. Consider it free practice.

Follow the NOTAM as written and we all will have a SAFE arrival at AirVenture OSH.

READ the NOTAM. Understand the NOTAM. Follow the NOTAM or instructions given by ATC.
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  #25  
Old 07-16-2018, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV6_flyer View Post
...Follow the NOTAM as written and we all will have a SAFE arrival at AirVenture OSH.

READ the NOTAM. Understand the NOTAM. Follow the NOTAM or instructions given by ATC.
I've flown in to Airventure five times. Gary, Paul, and others, you are absolutely correct. The procedure for slow aircraft is appropriate.

Read, understand and follow the NOTAM or instructions given by ATC. The procedures provided in the NOTAM work.

July 26 Addendum: Okay, after reading and re-reading the big Fisk Approach Fiasco of 2018 so well documented in the other thread, I must change my stand by saying the procedures in the NOTAM work MOST of the time. It’s obvious something needs to be changed before next year. Whether it’s the NOTAM, or ATC procedures, or mass arrival procedures, or whatever, something must be changed to prevent another furball. The NOTAM procedures may need tweaking, but I still stand by my statement that pilots must read and follow the procedures in the NOTAM. And we must all not be so naive to believe all other pilots will follow the procedure. Most will, but some won’t.
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Last edited by rv7boy : 07-27-2018 at 12:00 AM.
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  #26  
Old 07-16-2018, 06:02 PM
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N546RV N546RV is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
You know, EVERYONE that is flying to Oshkosh should have a copy of this by now, so there is no needs to guess or spread information based on memory. Here is what the NOTAM says on Page 4 about dealing with a slower aircraft in front of you:

“Do not “S-Turn” to follow an aircraft; instead, break off the procedure; return to Ripon; and follow another aircraft of similar speed.”

Nothing there says that you can pas another aircraft between Ripon and Fisk’s - if it is in the MNOTAM., please give the page number so that we are al working to the same procedure. Please folks, no “well someone told me that.....” when it comes to the arrival!

Oh - did my practice yesterday in the airplane I am flying to the show. 1,000’ AGL (which is the 1800 MSL at Oshkosh), follow a road, 90 knots (+/- 2 in our bumpy hot air), and 1/2 mile behind Louise (who was flying the airplane she’s bringing to the show).

Paul
As usual, I watched the EAA webinar on tips for flying in - even though I've been in before, I figure there's no harm in reviewing. I was really surprised this year when Fred Stadler, the webinar host (and to my knowledge, a major contributor to the NOTAM) outright said something about passing slower aircraft on the tracks.

I was kinda blown away. I always recommend the webinar to people planning on flying in, especially for the first time, and I did not expect to hear advice that was so completely counter to the NOTAM, and from an authority figure to boot.

Edit: I honestly began doubting my memory as I typed this, so I went and poked through the webinar again, and sure enough, it's there: http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video...irventure-2018

About 38 minutes in, Fred mentions the problem of being behind a slower aircraft, and says that if there's clear space in front of the aircraft, it would be "prudent" to "very cautiously" pass the aircraft.

To be clear, I mention this not to attempt to contradict the NOTAM, but because I was frankly amazed to hear this advocated.
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Last edited by N546RV : 07-16-2018 at 06:37 PM.
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  #27  
Old 07-16-2018, 07:52 PM
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Cool Arrival

If the one arrival is so great just think how much greater it would be to have two!90 knots is 103mph no champ much less a cub will come close to that and that r-22 helio was going real slow on the fisk arrival . This will be my 5th time flying in and im no expert but I think there is room for improvement.

Bob
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  #28  
Old 07-16-2018, 07:55 PM
zmatt zmatt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N546RV View Post
As usual, I watched the EAA webinar on tips for flying in - even though I've been in before, I figure there's no harm in reviewing. I was really surprised this year when Fred Stadler, the webinar host (and to my knowledge, a major contributor to the NOTAM) outright said something about passing slower aircraft on the tracks.

I was kinda blown away. I always recommend the webinar to people planning on flying in, especially for the first time, and I did not expect to hear advice that was so completely counter to the NOTAM, and from an authority figure to boot.

Edit: I honestly began doubting my memory as I typed this, so I went and poked through the webinar again, and sure enough, it's there: http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video...irventure-2018

About 38 minutes in, Fred mentions the problem of being behind a slower aircraft, and says that if there's clear space in front of the aircraft, it would be "prudent" to "very cautiously" pass the aircraft.

To be clear, I mention this not to attempt to contradict the NOTAM, but because I was frankly amazed to hear this advocated.
Phillip,

Thanks for posting that I thought that I might have gone mad and mis-read the NOTAM. I listened to that same webinar.
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  #29  
Old 07-16-2018, 08:36 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N546RV View Post
As usual, I watched the EAA webinar on tips for flying in - even though I've been in before, I figure there's no harm in reviewing. I was really surprised this year when Fred Stadler, the webinar host (and to my knowledge, a major contributor to the NOTAM) outright said something about passing slower aircraft on the tracks.

I was kinda blown away. I always recommend the webinar to people planning on flying in, especially for the first time, and I did not expect to hear advice that was so completely counter to the NOTAM, and from an authority figure to boot.

Edit: I honestly began doubting my memory as I typed this, so I went and poked through the webinar again, and sure enough, it's there: http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video...irventure-2018

About 38 minutes in, Fred mentions the problem of being behind a slower aircraft, and says that if there's clear space in front of the aircraft, it would be "prudent" to "very cautiously" pass the aircraft.

To be clear, I mention this not to attempt to contradict the NOTAM, but because I was frankly amazed to hear this advocated.
Well dang - I bet you can guess what topic I’ll add to the HAC debrief of the show. EAA shouldn’t be putting out anything that contradicts the NOTAM! And yup - the NOTAM over-rides anything else that you might hear or read.

Thanks for letting me know where it came from - there shouldn’t be contradictory information from sources within the organization!

Paul
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Editor in Chief - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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  #30  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:10 AM
tmcquinn tmcquinn is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N546RV View Post

About 38 minutes in, Fred mentions the problem of being behind a slower aircraft, and says that if there's clear space in front of the aircraft, it would be "prudent" to "very cautiously" pass the aircraft.

To be clear, I mention this not to attempt to contradict the NOTAM, but because I was frankly amazed to hear this advocated.
It seems to me that EAA can advocate whatever they want but I doubt that they would be of much use if the FAA wanted to make an example of someone.
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