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Extended Range Wing Tip Tanks

pile-it

Member
Want to know if any one has experience in building tip tanks in the wing tips. I understand a person in Australia had built some a while back that worked very well. Understand he isn't doing it anymore, but maybe someone else has some expertize in this endeavor. Thanks, Ken 303-655-0965
E-Mail [email protected]:confused:
 
Jon Johanson himself could help

If you ever have the opportunity to read the book "Aiming High" by Jon Johanson (Wakefield Press, Box 2266, Kent Town South Australia 5071) you should take it. It is a wonderful experience! He did make tip tanks for his world circling RV-4. On page 41 of his book he starts describing the idea of converting the tips into tanks. He describes his, at first, awkward interaction with Richard VanGrunsven over developing the tanks. I bought my tip tanks from developer Farn Reed who I was informed was killed in an airplane accident long after I bought my tanks from him in 1996. They work very well but they extent the wingspan by 1.5 ft. When I went to Van's school in 1996 before I got the tanks I talked to Van about them. He did not think they were a good idea because of the effects on the airplane (stress, aerodynamics, etc.) he personally suggested to me that it would be better to do what you are considering and keep the fuel within the existing physical dimensions of the airplane design and he discussed the tip tanks that Jon Johanson had developed. I now think that using more of the wing leading edge for tankage would be a better way to go but that is more complex.

We are going to Key West from the north west corner of Arkansas in a couple of weeks as part of a trip to Florida for the launch of the Kepler Spacecraft. The tip tanks make that trip possible with one fuel stop even though I will make two. One week after we get back I have to be in Taylor, Texas for an air race (Taylor 100, see www.sportairrace.org) and to prepare the plane I have to remove the stock 12" tips and 9" tip tanks and install my 3" racing tips. This reduces the wingspan from its cruise configuration by 3 feet and that is nice to be able to do. Farn Reed lived in Grants Pass, Oregon and it might be possible to locate a person there that would have access to his design but that is a different configuration than you are looking for.

Bob Axsom
 
Aux tanks in the WINGS

All the RV wings have nice fat cross sections with plenty of room internally for more fuel.

If you're still early enough in the build of the wings I have a suggestion: Put the fuel in the wings, not the tips. There's gobs more room in the wing bay -vs- the tips, and the tips weren't designed to handle high secondary loads by way of how they're attached to the outer wing rib, unless modified.

It would be easy to add a fuel bay in the most outboard rib bay: it would be between the tip rib and the next one (or two if you want more fuel) inboard, and between the main spar and the rear spar.

You'd have to close up the holes in the spar web, and the ribs. If making a two-bay tank, the middle rib would need some transfer holes drilled in it down low. Also, the bottom skin would need stiffeners (like in the main tank) to hold shape under the fuel load. Access would be through the tip rib - you could do a good sized access plate on that rib. Additional access could be had through the bottom skin if you wanted to put a flush plate down there also.

The aux fuel would transfer into the main tanks using a small Facet pump. Just burn down the mains until there's room for the transfer fuel, then transfer it. I prefer this to using gravity.

If you haven't installed the vent system yet, this also could be designed to accomodate both tanks. The aux tank would simply vent at the highest point on the wing, like inside the tip. A little NACA duct could be flushed into the lower tip skin with the vent line run to it, like the Boeings have. The main tank vent would connect to the aux tank, so we're venting both tanks at the same point. The advantage to this is two-fold: first if you transfer fuel before there's room for it in the main tank, it would run back to the aux tank through the vent line. No over pressure in the tank, and no fuel pumped overboard. Also it gets rid of the fuel vent lines in the cockpit. Neat and simple.

The airplane would have to be restricted to a lower g limit to keep secondary loads in the aux tank structures down to acceptable levels. This would have to be analyzed by a competent engineer. Also, spin dynamics would be greatly affected if the plane was spun with all that mass in the outer wings. I have no idea how that would turn out (with fuel in the wings, or tips either way).

Just my .02 anyway.
 
longer tanks

I increased my tank sizes to 26 gallons ea. on my RV6. John Harmon in Bakersfield Ca. sold me every thing I needed to make longer tanks. 500+ hrs, no leaks no problems. You will have to drill some of those big rivets from your spar, add more structure and put in more big rivets. Other than that it's just like building your stock tanks. Steve
 
In the Wing is the Way to Go

I have seen up to 98 gallons in the leading edge tanks of a RV-6, definitely a more elegant solution than wingtip tanks if you are still building your wings. Good for crossing the Atlantic!

Hans
 
Hi Guys: Sorry I didn't mention that I have a Quick Build kit so I am limited in my options when it comes to increasing the amount fuel onboard. If anyone has information on how to get in touch with Jon Johanson I would appreciate hearing from them. I think that my only hope at this time. Thanks, Ken :confused:
 
Sounds like a good business to get into if I could figure out to build the darn things:rolleyes:Safe Air tanks only hold about 9 gallons total and I have heard the tip tanks hold from 10 to14 each.
 
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9.2 gals per tip

I have these with the kit I just sold. The Johannsen wingtips hold 9.2 gals per tip. They are basically the older style wing tip glassed in. There is a vent and drain to check for contaminants on the bottom and then a standard filler cap. The tank feeds into the main tank through a check valve as the fuel is used from either tank. The tip still has a bay for the strobe/nav light and a pass through tube for the wiring from the outer tip to the main wing. I have some pictures but I am not at my desktop right now so can't post them. I will post them here later.
 
HWA Tanks

I had a set of the HWA ER tanks in my recently sold RV-8, I have a set installed in my soon to fly RV-6A and have a set for my under construction RV-10. As a repeat offender, I can say the quality is first rate and the additional fuel is sufficient most trips except for a transatlantic adventure. For a QB, it is a great option.

BTW: I just received my ER tank kit from John Harmon. The HR II will have 55 gallons aboard for every trip. I firmly believe that you can't use fuel left on the ground, runway left behind you or altitude above you.
 
I would try the publisher

If you write a letter (people still do that don't they?) to Jon Johanson via his publisher (see address in previous post) there is a good chance that it will be forwarded to him.

Bob Axsom
 
Another option

Sounds like a good business to get into if I could figure out to build the darn things:rolleyes:Safe Air tanks only hold about 9 gallons total and I have heard the tip tanks hold from 10 to14 each.

Ken -

You could try contacting Michael Haynes in Australia. He assisted me to convert my outboard leading edges to LR tanks (total approx 35 gallons extra). If you are building a standard kit he may take the project on for you. You would have to freight him your outboard leading edge components and he would have to freight back your built tanks when completed. The exchange rate is in your favour at the moment. Michael can be contacted by email at [email protected]

No guarantees but he may be interested.

Cheers,

JON.
 
check out these..84 total gals..just added an extra tank on each side. I am trying find out if the builder did any extra mods to the spar for the extra weight.

rv 7

TanksClickOnPictureToOpenFolder


TanksClickOnPictureToOpenFolder
 
Advanced Aero, Carbon Wing Tip Tanks

Advanced Aero Components [/B],www.advancedaero.com,

carbon fiber Wing Tip Tanks are now in production and available.
Apparently they hold 36 ltrs or 9.5 gal a side.
I just got my set fitted , very impressed with the carbon finish.
also there lighter weight than i expected and feels to be a really strong build
quality.

Ben
 
Advanced Aero Components [/B],www.advancedaero.com,

carbon fiber Wing Tip Tanks are now in production and available.
Apparently they hold 36 ltrs or 9.5 gal a side.
I just got my set fitted , very impressed with the carbon finish.
also there lighter weight than i expected and feels to be a really strong build
quality.

Ben

Can you post a few pics of your install and tanks? How do these mount?
 
Advanced Aero Components [/B],www.advancedaero.com,

carbon fiber Wing Tip Tanks are now in production and available.
Apparently they hold 36 ltrs or 9.5 gal a side.
I just got my set fitted , very impressed with the carbon finish.
also there lighter weight than i expected and feels to be a really strong build
quality.

Ben

Is it possible to get them with the deluxe fuel caps??
 
Advanced Aero Components [/B],www.advancedaero.com,

carbon fiber Wing Tip Tanks are now in production and available.
Apparently they hold 36 ltrs or 9.5 gal a side.
I just got my set fitted , very impressed with the carbon finish.
also there lighter weight than i expected and feels to be a really strong build
quality.

Ben

I would like to see some pictures too please. Thanks.
 
Wing tip tanks

If you haven't installed the vent system yet, this also could be designed to accomodate both tanks. The aux tank would simply vent at the highest point on the wing, like inside the tip. A little NACA duct could be flushed into the lower tip skin with the vent line run to it, like the Boeings have. The main tank vent would connect to the aux tank, so we're venting both tanks at the same point. The advantage to this is two-fold: first if you transfer fuel before there's room for it in the main tank, it would run back to the aux tank through the vent line. No over pressure in the tank, and no fuel pumped overboard. Also it gets rid of the fuel vent lines in the cockpit. Neat and simple.
This will work, but be aware that the stock Van's fuel vent inside the fuselage has quite a vertical height difference from the vent opening inside the tank. This helps a lot in keeping fuel from venting on the ramp from either thermal expansion or side slope. Many other low wing airplanes that have under wing mounted vents drip considerable fuel in these conditions.

Also, just ran across an FAA report about strobe light wiring igniting fuel vapours inside tip tanks (on a certificated twin), so if you do this be very careful about the routing of the strobe wiring and the possibility of fuel vapours collecting in closed areas.
 
If you haven't installed the vent system yet, this also could be designed to accomodate both tanks. The aux tank would simply vent at the highest point on the wing, like inside the tip. A little NACA duct could be flushed into the lower tip skin with the vent line run to it, like the Boeings have. The main tank vent would connect to the aux tank, so we're venting both tanks at the same point. The advantage to this is two-fold: first if you transfer fuel before there's room for it in the main tank, it would run back to the aux tank through the vent line. No over pressure in the tank, and no fuel pumped overboard. Also it gets rid of the fuel vent lines in the cockpit. Neat and simple.

There has been at least one report of a single vent at the wingtip serving both the auxiliary tank and the main tank freezing up and cutting off fuel supply from both the aux and main tank.

The standard Vans vent position under the fuselage probably gets some warmer air from the engine passing over it to preclude freezing up of the vent.

Auxiliary tanks and how they are plumbed needs a whole lot of careful consideration to avoid a fuel supply catastrophe. Major (or even minor) changes to Vans proven fuel supply system is not an area where the average builder wants to be too "intuitively experimental".
 
There has been at least one report of a single vent at the wingtip serving both the auxiliary tank and the main tank freezing up and cutting off fuel supply from both the aux and main tank.

The standard Vans vent position under the fuselage probably gets some warmer air from the engine passing over it to preclude freezing up of the vent.

Auxiliary tanks and how they are plumbed needs a whole lot of careful consideration to avoid a fuel supply catastrophe. Major (or even minor) changes to Vans proven fuel supply system is not an area where the average builder wants to be too "intuitively experimental".

Bob, NACA vents won't accrete ice by design. That's why Boeing uses them on the underside of the wing for fuel vents, and they're not heated. On the other hand, a simple tube stuck out the bottom of the airplane can indeed ice up, so its fortunate that the stock design places them in the warm air on the belly.

I, like many others, don't see the benefit to having fuel vent lines run through my cockpit. On my 8's wings, I'm installing coiled vent lines in the wing roots, as is done on the F1's. However, that method does have its potential problems too, as the coiled line provides a trap point for liquid (like water) and would ice up at altitude since its in the wing root.

Totally agree about needing to think through making changes to, or fully re-designing any part of the airplane.
 
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I, like many others, don't see the benefit to having fuel vent lines run through my cockpit. On my 8's wings, I'm installing coiled vent lines in the wing roots, as is done on the F1's. However, that method does have its potential problems too, as the coiled line provides a trap point for liquid (like water) and would ice up at altitude since its in the wing root.

What is the downside to fuel VENT lines in a cockpit? There is minimal pressure. Besides, there are fuel lines under several PSI of pressure in the cockpit.
 
Ron, no real downside in a functional sense. Its just easier to keep the vent system within the wing. Eliminates the need to pass the line through the fuselage side. Reduces overall weight, cost and complexity. A small gain, but the KISS principle is a good one.
 
NACA Fuel Vent

Bob, NACA vents won't accrete ice by design.

Well, not exactly. If you read the research paper NACA RM E8C05 (from 1948) which did the original tests of the NACA duct used as a fuel vent in icing conditions, you'll find that this type of fuel vent accretes the least amount of ice of the shapes tested, but still had a measurable loss of static pressure after the ice encounter (in an icing wind tunnel). However compared to an external vent like the standard Van's design, it is better in icing conditions. Our RVs do not have wing, empennage or prop deice, so an encounter with icing conditions demands immediate action to get out of those conditions.

Having said all that, I plan on having auxiliary NACA flush vents on my RV-9A in addition to the stock Van's vents.
 
Yeah, Terry - ice accretion on the vent system isn't what should drive the system design. As you said, we shouldn't be there in the first place and if we do make a mistake and get into icing conditions we should leave Pronto!

My concern therefore lies in the possibility of the vent lines freezing due to ambient temps with water in the line somewhere. That's the critique I'd offer of the circular vent line system used on some airplanes now.

As for the NACA design icing up - well maybe. But probably not, considering all the ba-gillions of hours flown in the heavy jet world without incident.
 
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Advanced Aero Components, Carbon Fiber Tip Tanks!

Thank you for your interest in our products.

We have developed wing tip tanks to suit the RV 6, 7, 8. When assembled, these wing tips are identical in physical size with a small weight increase to the standard tips with the added bonus of being fuel tanks holding an extra 9.5 gallons or 36 liters per side to increase your range. This is the max capacity possible to keep your aircraft within the correct C of G limits.

The RV tip kit consists of: a pair of carbon fiber wing tip skins fused together with internal ribs bonded in place; 2 Standard RV fuel caps; 2 AN fuel pickups; 2 fuel finger strainers; vent line stock; tube of fuel seal; resin and glass for final rib bond in.

The only assembly required is the main rib has to be bonded in once the inside of the tip is fuel sealed. The kit comes with step by step instructions and is very simple to assemble and install.

Once completed, your new tips simply attach to your wings exactly the same way your standard tips did. The new tip is placed on top of your wing, whilst you connect the fuel lines and then flip them over to screw the tips on.

We also offer a wing tip installation kit. This kit consists of all the hardware, lines and 2 pumps to connect your new tip tanks to the main tanks. See our website for pricing.

To secure a pair of RV wing tip tanks a 20% deposit is required. Currently there is a 6 week lead time due to high demand.
If you wish to proceed, email us your full name and delivery address and we will issue you with an invoice and payment details.

Over the next few weeks we will be posting a YouTube video on how to fit these tips.

We currently have a pdf installation diagram now posted on our web page for your viewing, http://www.advancedaero.com/vans.html , and a basic picture of the tip there as well.
We will be posting more pictures over the next few weeks.


If we can help in any way, don't hesitate to contact us.

Regards, Advanced Aero C Team :)
 
Tip Tanks

Hi All,

I've made the existing wing tips into tanks on both an RV-6A ans an RV-7A. The method of implementation was to keep it as simple as possible. Just a direct 3/8" line between the tip tank and the main tank. No vent on the main tank (original one capped off) and a dual venting system on the tip tank. One vent either back to the original fuselage venting system, and just intot he underside of the wing near the tip. The second vent is connected to the tip vent with a "T" and a check valve insde the wing near the tip.
This plumbing method doesn't require additional wiring for a pump between tanks, uses gavety to flow fuel out of the tips into the mains. Fuel level gages/floats in the root end of the main tank measure only the last 15 gals (in an RV-7A) of fuel in the combined tanks on each side. Your fuel totalizer will indicate that is left above that amount.
I used the original tips from Vans by coating the insides with epoxy and glass, added baffling, the wall, vevting and finger strainer fuel pickups. The tanks are mounted ontot he wings with #6 screws using Van's original hole patter.
The tips hold 9.5 gals, resulting in 60 usable gals in the RV-7A.....
 
Thank you for your interest in our products.

We have developed wing tip tanks to suit the RV 6, 7, 8. When assembled, these wing tips are identical in physical size with a small weight increase to the standard tips with the added bonus of being fuel tanks holding an extra 9.5 gallons or 36 liters per side to increase your range. This is the max capacity possible to keep your aircraft within the correct C of G limits.
....
Regards, Advanced Aero C Team :)

what do you use to ensure no leaks?
 
Hi All,

I've made the existing wing tips into tanks on both an RV-6A ans an RV-7A. The method of implementation was to keep it as simple as possible. Just a direct 3/8" line between the tip tank and the main tank. No vent on the main tank (original one capped off) and a dual venting system on the tip tank. One vent either back to the original fuselage venting system, and just intot he underside of the wing near the tip. The second vent is connected to the tip vent with a "T" and a check valve insde the wing near the tip.
This plumbing method doesn't require additional wiring for a pump between tanks, uses gavety to flow fuel out of the tips into the mains. Fuel level gages/floats in the root end of the main tank measure only the last 15 gals (in an RV-7A) of fuel in the combined tanks on each side. Your fuel totalizer will indicate that is left above that amount.
I used the original tips from Vans by coating the insides with epoxy and glass, added baffling, the wall, vevting and finger strainer fuel pickups. The tanks are mounted ontot he wings with #6 screws using Van's original hole patter. The tips hold 9.5 gals, resulting in 60 usable gals in the RV-7A.....

Did you remember to fuel seal them?
 
Rv 10 & 14 tip tanks?

Advanced Aero Components will soon be releasing new style Carbon fiber wing tip tanks for the RV 10 & 14.

They are expected to hold around 13 Galons per side.
 
Advanced Aero Components will soon be releasing new style Carbon fiber wing tip tanks for the RV 10 & 14.

They are expected to hold around 13 Galons per side.

keep up the good work!

where's the youtube vid you guys had mentioned putting online?
 
My Advanced Aero wingtip tanks

I'm building an F-1 Rocket but I've gotten plenty of good info from this forum in the past and have avoided building mistakes as a result. Maybe someone here considering wingtip fuel tanks will do the same.

I bought a set of wingtip fuel tanks from Advanced Aero Components in mid June of this year. Mid July I was told they were complete and would ship shortly. Ten days later I e-mailed to ask about expected delivery and four weeks after that I received a response expressing suprise I hadn't received my parts yet and ensuring me that they were checking into it. Two weeks later I was informed that the shipper had lost the package, but not to worry as they had already shipped another set. (this was 1 Sept) When I asked for more specifics about shipping/ arrival, I was told on 7 September that they had shipped the day prior and they provided me with a Fedex tracking number Fedex had no record of. That was the last communication I ever received from the company. I finally received my windtips about the 24th of October - they had shipped on the 15th.

Worse still, the left wingtip doesn't fit. The profile is mostly correct but about a third of the way down the bottom side of the wing from the leading edge the shape begins to diverge and is nearly 3/10" too big at the aft underside of the wing. Since both the fuel tanks and the wing are ridgid structures, I was forced to tear out the fiberglass rib that caps the tank and remake the part with the correct profile. I'm still not done as I'm waiting on epoxy/ proseal, and various other parts needed to complete. The right wingtip appears to fit, although I haven't attached it yet. Six months and $4k later I am left building my own tanks (at least one anyhow) I provided this info to the company with pictures and asking for help/ advise and never got a response. Buyer beware.

I very rarely post on forums, but I believe you can e-mail me if you would like to see pics.

Bill
 
I posted on this a while back waiting to here from someone who actually purchased and installed the product with some detailed install pictures. A guy holding one on their website is not what I had in mind.

Finally one person, Bill, has posted and had problems with shipment, fit, and service after the sale. Not very good stats.

I would like to have more fuel, but am leaning to the Safeair tanks. Proven design with many happy customers.

Maybe Advanced Aero will comment and provide some more information with an installed working example.
 
Advanced aero

Hi guys,

Did anyone install the wing tip fuel tanks from advanced aero?

Many tanks
 
Has anyone got any updates on this company? they've moved to the US apparently, but their paypal is shutdown and their emails are not responded to.
 
Has anyone recently tried "glassing-in" and reinforcing the stock tips to make their own tip tanks? Four grand for the carbon ones mentioned above seems a little steep, so I'm considering glassing my own--if it can be done and be impervious to avgas and mogas.
 
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