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  #11  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:59 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
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Thanks guys for the input. So Carl, you mentioned something about “aileron hang”. Are you referring to what people have written about regarding “slotting” the attachment hinges so that the ailerons can be moved up and down slightly? I’m assuming that a straight edge could be put on the bottom of the wing and the ailerons should be flat and in plane with the bottom of the wing. Can you also direct me to some of your other post that mentioned so that I can read up on it? I have quick build wings, ailerons, and flaps, so hopefully everything was built square.

Thanks again,
Mark
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2018, 04:24 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Mark33 View Post
Thanks guys for the input. So Carl, you mentioned something about “aileron hang”. Are you referring to what people have written about regarding “slotting” the attachment hinges so that the ailerons can be moved up and down slightly? I’m assuming that a straight edge could be put on the bottom of the wing and the ailerons should be flat and in plane with the bottom of the wing. Can you also direct me to some of your other post that mentioned so that I can read up on it? I have quick build wings, ailerons, and flaps, so hopefully everything was built square.

Thanks again,
Mark
Slotting is one way to address and alieron that is low/high at one end (or both). Another way is to get a no-hole aileron bracket (or two) from Van’s. With this you can offset the attachement hole from the center and go up, down, in or out.

While straight edges are good for checking in trail, there are other checks to do as well:
- After you verify the flaps up, align the inboard trailing edge to the flap trailing edge. Look for a twist in the flap or aileron by sighting down the trailing edge.
- With this one aileron clamped to the flap, verify the stick is in the center neutral postion. Have the elevators clamped in the neutral position as well.
- Adjusty the aileron rigging as needed to get the stick centered
- Now go adjust the other ailieron rigging so it lines up with that flap trailing edge.
- Measure the gap between the aileron and the top skin (I use shims of wood with tape to side along the gap). It should be constant and the same across the length of the aileron and should match the opposite aileron. Here is were you will find any aileron hang issues.
- If you have an issue, use your straight edges to decide what is truth. Once done you will know how much to raise/lower.
- Now measure from the most forward aileron rivet line to the most aft wing rivet line. This again should be constant across the aileron as well as match the opposite aileron. If not, then decide how much to move what end in or out.
- Now knowing both the up/down and in/out adjustment you are ready to drill a hole in the no-hole aileron bracket.
- Now go back and check your work, and have another RV builder check as well.

You may need more than one no-hole bracket. Remember it comes in both inboard and outboard versions. If you want you can use the brackets you have if you find someone that can weld up the hole.

After all this done, and only after, you fit the wingtips.

As far as the quickbuild being square, “trust but verify”.

Carl
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  #13  
Old 11-12-2018, 05:23 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Thanks for all of the great detailed information Carl!!

Mark
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2018, 05:12 PM
MK77 MK77 is offline
 
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Hi Carl,

When you say "make sure the flaps are all the way up", how do you gauge where "all the way up" is without first aligning the ailerons using the tooling holes and matching the flaps to that?

I'm working through my own heavy wing issue and have spent a lot of time with rigging, squeezing, fairing alignment and aileron hang adjusting. Ultimately, lowering the right aileron only 1/16" of an inch made a huge difference and the plane is almost hands off now. I'm going to go an additional 1/32" and it should be perfect. Interesting thing is that with the plane flying level, the left aileron is slightly (maybe 1/4") below the flap TE and the right aileron is slightly above the flap TE. If I move the stick to where the trailing edges of both are perfectly aligned, then I get a left roll. Not sure why that is.

Matt
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2018, 05:59 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MK77 View Post
Hi Carl,

When you say "make sure the flaps are all the way up", how do you gauge where "all the way up" is without first aligning the ailerons using the tooling holes and matching the flaps to that?

I'm working through my own heavy wing issue and have spent a lot of time with rigging, squeezing, fairing alignment and aileron hang adjusting. Ultimately, lowering the right aileron only 1/16" of an inch made a huge difference and the plane is almost hands off now. I'm going to go an additional 1/32" and it should be perfect. Interesting thing is that with the plane flying level, the left aileron is slightly (maybe 1/4") below the flap TE and the right aileron is slightly above the flap TE. If I move the stick to where the trailing edges of both are perfectly aligned, then I get a left roll. Not sure why that is.

Matt
Hey Matt,
Good questions for Carl. Also, when you said that you lowered your left aileron by 1/16", did you lower the entire thing or just one side (the outboard or inboard bracket)? Also, did you get new bracket(s) from Vans....the ones that you have to drill your own holes in, or did you just slot your original bracket(s)?

Thanks,
Mark
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2018, 06:19 PM
BillL BillL is online now
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
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Default Slots AND new hinges.

Mark, Lets talk about the slots vs new drilled hinges - you will need to do both. I think I slotted, flew, measured, slotted some more, etc a dozen times before it was all sorted and flew balanced. That was after all the other checks (at least twice) were done, I even had to step back with one slotted hinge as it was too much. A 10 friend did a dozen as well.

So - slot to get it to rig, look and fly properly, then get new hinges, make a drill guide and drill new holes to match what works.

You would NEVER get the job done without both.

Disclaimer: this only addresses the hinges, other effects should get appropriate attention as well.
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:00 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Mark, Lets talk about the slots vs new drilled hinges - you will need to do both. I think I slotted, flew, measured, slotted some more, etc a dozen times before it was all sorted and flew balanced. That was after all the other checks (at least twice) were done, I even had to step back with one slotted hinge as it was too much. A 10 friend did a dozen as well.

So - slot to get it to rig, look and fly properly, then get new hinges, make a drill guide and drill new holes to match what works.

You would NEVER get the job done without both.

Disclaimer: this only addresses the hinges, other effects should get appropriate attention as well.
Thanks Bill, it sounds like I have a lot of trial and error ahead of me. LOL!!
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:14 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Thanks Bill, it sounds like I have a lot of trial and error ahead of me. LOL!!
I tell a lot of builders that rigging is a big deal - certainly not "one and done" like the instructions imply.

Don't forget that wheel pants and gear leg fairings are part of the rigging process as well. Get the plane rigged and flying right with the pants and fairings off, then check rigging with them on. Not done just right and you will find the ball out to one side.

Carl
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:36 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Location: Baton Rouge, La.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
I tell a lot of builders that rigging is a big deal - certainly not "one and done" like the instructions imply.

Don't forget that wheel pants and gear leg fairings are part of the rigging process as well. Get the plane rigged and flying right with the pants and fairings off, then check rigging with them on. Not done just right and you will find the ball out to one side.

Carl
Roger that....thanks Carl.
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  #20  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:57 AM
MK77 MK77 is offline
 
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Location: Evanston, IL
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Hi Mark,

Like Bill said, it's both. I started with the stock hinges and slotted them 1/16" down. I did both sides as it seemed the whole aileron was high. Now I'm going to remove them again and slot an additional 1/32". Perhaps I'll have to do another iteration after that. After the plane is flying straight and I'm happy, I'll take the un-punched hinge brackets and transfer the holes to those and install them.
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