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Speed mod idea float

Bob Axsom

Well Known Member
Glenn, Pierre, Kevin and others I'm sure, have been making cooling drag comments about the air after it has passed out of the plennum past the cylinders and into the lower cowl. Not having unlimited wealth to get speed the most direct way - brute force - I am of course interested. I spent a good part of the afternoon cutting file folders into pieces representing baffle components for the area below the engine. Problems are present but they are not insurmountable as far as making a "catch bowl" that funnels into the cowl outlet are concerned. A lot of detail work would be required to support it in place without any hard contact with the engine. Soft contact could be implemented with high temp seals perhaps. Another approach would be to develop it in stepwise fashion, like first just developing side baffles to bring the air into a narrow band vertically aligned with the outlet, then an upper-aft baffle to bring the vertical column down to the bottom of the firewall/top of the outlet and finally perhaps a fwd/lower baffle to direct the air back over the filter air box. Any thoughts?

Bob Axsom
 
Bob Axsom said:
(snip)Not having unlimited wealth to get speed the most direct way - brute force - I am of course interested. I spent a good part of the afternoon cutting file folders into pieces representing baffle components for the area below the engine. Problems are present but they are not insurmountable as far as making a "catch bowl" that funnels into the cowl outlet are concerned. A lot of detail work would be required to support it in place without any hard contact with the engine. Soft contact could be implemented with high temp seals perhaps. Another approach would be to develop it in stepwise fashion, like first just developing side baffles to bring the air into a narrow band vertically aligned with the outlet, then an upper-aft baffle to bring the vertical column down to the bottom of the firewall/top of the outlet and finally perhaps a fwd/lower baffle to direct the air back over the filter air box. Any thoughts?

Bob Axsom

Bob--I think you are definitely thinking in the right direction here. You might want to look here for some ideas. Not an RV, but a lot of careful and interesting thought has gone into this airplane.

James Freeman
 
Keep posting

Bob

Sounds like a good idea to try. I have done alot of research in this area, as I intend to build my own carbon plenum and diffused induction inlet on my -8. I know Dave Anders has a 45deg or so ramp on his firewall to keep the exit air from having to make that ugly (slow) 90deg prior to exiting the cowl. The big thing that needs to be done is get the air speed of the exiting air up as it exits, to decrease drag. In that vein I plan on using exhaust scavanged cooling air exit. I have a 4-1 ceramic coated ehaust and plan on making an outlet scoop conform around and extend past the end of the collector by 4 inches or so. In "theory" (major stress here) this should both increase exit air velocity and lower the pressure of the lower cowl air, increasing the pressure differential across the engine (increasing cooling effeciency as well).

I don't plan on any racing, due to my "hopefully" MT prop, but I want the rest of it to be as effecient as I can possibly make it.

Please keep us posted, it would be nice t share data and experience.
 
Way to go

Bob Axsom said:
Any thoughts? Bob Axsom
No specifics but way to go BOB, all my moral support to you. I would try and visualize where the air is coming from and where it has to go. I have seen two approaches. One is fiberglass that is supported off of the engine mounts with adel clamps. The other is similar but with sheet metal. I am sure you can bond on some smooth formers and flow control on in the lower cowl. I'll email you some pictures when I get a chance.

Some flight test ideas. One is to coat the lower cowl with some colored dye and fly. It will make a mess of the belly (it is like light oil). The streak pattens will show airflow. The other method, a ground test would use smoke. How you track it would be a little tricky. May be some lights and small video camera lens. YOU will need a source of airflow or blowers. Button the cowl up, with camera'(s), and blowing the air and smoke, it will give insight into where airflow is going or should not be going.

George
 
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My thoughts exactly

Bob,
I've often thought about the same thing: how do I get the airflow downstream of the cyl fins to turn gently toward the exit duct. I've been thinking of bending up some sheet metal 'guides' and clamping them to the intake risers on the inboard side.

Then, aft of that, clamped to the engine mount, a angled piece fwd of the firewall, that goes accross the width of the cowl, deflecting the air downward toward the exit ramp. This last piece would be really tough to do with the hoses and cables in the way, but I did see it on an RV-4 recently.

Another speed mod that one builder showed me was he had glassed around the tires inside his wheel pants, in the hope of eliminating much of the volume of airspace. This to me, was excessive work, not sure of the theory either.

Keep up the good work. This is as exciting as the first time I picked up Speed with Economy.
Art
 
Cooling drag

Mornin' all,
In the seventies I built a Cassutt F1 racer with a 100 HP Conti (C-90 upped to 100 HP) that went 230 MPH at 3800 RPM and a cut down Sensenich. Bear in mind that it had a 15' wingspan and weighed 510 lbs empty. I spent quite a bit of time around the late Bill Falck and his winning F1, "Rivets". Rivets didn't have any inlet cooling intakes in front of the cylinders but had a lower, oval shaped inlet (about where the RVs carb intake is) with updraft cooling that was totally ducted up to the cylinders and then an upper plenum with more ducting over the engine and down to the lower exit which was in line with the frontal inlet. The exhaust also ran through the same exit. Even tho' Rivets was pushing 700 lbs (as I recall), he was always last starting and got faster and faster, picking the competition off one at a time and usually won by the last or next to last lap. Falck was a German, or Euro engineer who devoted an incredible amount of time to reducing cooling drag and it obviously paid big dividends.

With the RV series, if all the exit corners are radiused, especially the lower firewall lip and the corners on the lower cowl (the vertical sides) where it meets the firewall, a lot of exit drag could be reduced. With the A models, the nosewheel mounting tubes can all be streamlined and the air guided better but how much speed is all the trouble worth? A James cowl would go a long way but I have a friend who put one on his -8 and it was two to three times the work than making a Van's cowl fit. He said "never again".
Pierre
 
Agree

I do think you are on the right track, Bob. Anywhere air is flowing, it needs to be guided. I see estimates as high as 30% for the portion of drag consumed by engine cooling.

Since I am determined to land with a safe quantity of fuel at the end, the AirVenture Cup race has become an efficiency challange for me. So, I have been spending some time doing just what you propose. If it works, I will show it off at OSH. If it doesn't, I will just quietly pretend I didn't waste 100 hours work on nothing.

John
 
First Implementation Concept

I have stepped back and given this a lot of thought for the first configuration. I want to implement something that will give me a clear indication of performance to be gained and not take the plane out of service for an extended period. I saw Rivets race in the 70s and the thought of a near perfect cooling airflow design is very stimulating and that is still in the big plan. Here is what I have worked out in my head:

1- Use the inside of the lower cowl shell without modification as the lower side of an air funnel to direct the air to the outlet.

2- Make an aluminum deflector plate of at least two pieces that crosses behind the engine to form the upper side of the air funnel with the following details:
- Make two plates that can be inserted from the sides and joined in the middle with platenutes and screws.
- Position upper edge well forward to maximize slope back to the outlet
- Attach the lower edge across the full width of the lip above the outlet with screws & platenuts.
- Outboard of the engine and the outlet, bend the plate forward and down to direct the air toward the outlet with the resulting inclined planes and avoid the flat firewall.
- Outboard of the outlet cut the edges to conform to the inside of the lower cowl with a 1/2" setback.
- Add large cutouts for ever wire, tube, etc that must go through the air deflector plate.
- Make slot covers to close long slots required for plate instalation and install with removable hardware.
- Fill all transition penetration holes with red Dow 736 RTV for air seal and abrasion protection.
- Rivet red high temp baffle seal to the edge plate to close the gap between the deflector plate and the inside of the lower cowl.
- Support the upper and outer portions of the deflector plate with suitable aluminum angle struts attached to the engine mount with bare metal clamps (no cushions) and to the deflector plate with angle brackets (flush riveted to the back of the plate) and standard fastener hardware.

OK that's the first implementation concept. After some testing, the next level of effort will be directed at cleaning up those things in the air flow path inside the funnel. The nose strut hardware and the filter air box stand out in this area of interest.

Bob Axsom
 
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Great article!

flyeyes said:
Bob--I think you are definitely thinking in the right direction here. You might want to look http://www.ez.org/feature/F0502-1/F0502-1.htm here for some ideas. Not an RV, but a lot of careful and interesting thought has gone into this airplane.
That is great. This clarified one thing that has always bothered me - people complaining about their cowls expanding in flight. This guy shows that if that is happening, you're doing it wrong. The key is to make sure you have negative pressure at the cowl inlet, then your airflows will be great. This completely syncs with the work that the Eggenfellner team have been doing with their package. The number one thing that helped with the cooling is to add more exit air capacity. The trick is to get the air out without increasing drag.

Thanks a lot for this link - I'd have never found it!
 
A couple of years ago, I bummed a ride in a friends RV-6 to an airport 150 miles away to pick up the RV-6 I had recently purchased. His airplane has a 0-320 with a constant speed propeller, and he has a radius baffle at the lower edge of his firewall. My RV-6 has a 0-320 turning a wood fixed pitch propeller, and no baffle at the lower edge of the firewall. I took off about 30 seconds ahead of him. I had gone 40 miles by the time he had caught me. I am sure he reached our cruising altitude in less time than I did. At 8500', and WOT he was maybe two knots faster than I was. His RV-6 is very nicely built, slightly smoother than mine. I never did loose sight of him for the 150 mile flight home. It was my first flight as pilot in an RV-6.
Another RV-6 on our airport has had much attention paid to cutting cooling drag, and has a Lycon 0-320. It is a very slick airplane. He even has the fairing on the tailwheel. It is considerably faster than mine. Probably 10-12KTS faster.
The conclusion I draw is, if you have the time and money to throw at it, there are good performance gains to be had by cutting drag. A little here and a little there will get the job done.

Bob Severns
 
I made the first baffle segment today

It is a VERY tedius and ambiguous task but I made the first of what will be many segments today. It makes you appreciate how nice it is that someone developed the upper baffling and provided a kit. As "Nuisance" can appreciate, if this works I will burn the patterns even - fastest is best. Not that I really have to worry about that but this year I will stay low in the AirVenture Cup race and hopefully not finish last in the RV Blue class. However, if last I be, then last it is - there is NOTHING like the thrill of competition, starting up when given the signal, taxiing out in trail to the release point, opening the throttle & releasing the brakes when the flag drops, accellerating down the runway in ground effect, making the sharp turn northwest after crossing the start time-line, racing all out for 407 nautical miles and finally crossing the finish time-line and pulling up for the slow recovery at Fond Du Lac. Less than three months to go and the entry deadline is May 31!

Bob Axsom
 
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Great Feedback Everyone!

After the morning walk with my wife to keep our body systems functioning properly, I'm heading out to the hangar to continue the new lower baffle work which will be a long project for me I'm sure. The quality of the feedback is greatly appreciated. George first tried to get me to look at the NASA report several months ago and now I have my own copy. The detailed implementations on the canards and Lancairs could never have been found if you folks hadn't posted the information here. Thanks!

Bob Axsom
 
rv8ch said:
That is great. This clarified one thing that has always bothered me - people complaining about their cowls expanding in flight. This guy shows that if that is happening, you're doing it wrong. The key is to make sure you have negative pressure at the cowl inlet, then your airflows will be great. This completely syncs with the work that the Eggenfellner team have been doing with their package. The number one thing that helped with the cooling is to add more exit air capacity. The trick is to get the air out without increasing drag.

Thanks a lot for this link - I'd have never found it!


Sorry, Mickey, but I have to disagree with both you and the EZ guy about this (actually, the EZ is a completely different situation). We need positive pressure. Compared to static line pressure, we should have positive at the cowl inlets (this should be easy) and positive at the cowl outlets. Really, the latter should be easy too, since we are heating (expanding) the air as it passes through the engine.

What we want is THRUST out the cowl outlet, pointing rearward. To create a vacuum there causes drag. We are putting energy (heat) into an already pressurized air stream, lets get something out of it.

John
 
Positive pressure

Nuisance said:
Sorry, Mickey, but I have to disagree with both you and the EZ guy about this (actually, the EZ is a completely different situation). We need positive pressure. Compared to static line pressure, we should have positive at the cowl inlets (this should be easy) and positive at the cowl outlets. Really, the latter should be easy too, since we are heating (expanding) the air as it passes through the engine.

What we want is THRUST out the cowl outlet, pointing rearward. To create a vacuum there causes drag. We are putting energy (heat) into an already pressurized air stream, lets get something out of it.

John
Makes sense. This is an entirely new area for me, so I'm kind of like a blade of grass blowing in the wind. Any good theory that comes along, and I'm leaning that way!
 
I wanted to play with this kinda idea with updraft cooling... don't know that I will on my first -7, Vanilla first, I may tweak the next one some more.
 
Rear to Side Baffle Interface. etc.

My work-in-process observations about the rear to side baffle panel interface for anyone contemplating this kind of mod. follow. The rear of the engine down to the firewall lip as seen from the side view, drops almost vertically for several inches to clear the lower engine mount pads then begins a tightening curve back to the firewall lip. The area behind the engine will require 4 or 5 segments on each side in my implementation (8 to 10 individual plates) with red rubber baffle strip closing the gaps to all the moving elements attached to the mount (basically the engine). The convex forward facing surface of this central part of the baffle assembly makes the interface with the forward and downward sloping side baffle extensions a bit difficult. I am nowhere near that point yet but I am thinking butt joints, bent tabs, platenuts and Dow 736 (red) sealer at this point.

Another nagging complication is the routing of the heated air dump hose (active when the heater is off) which I had routed to the cowl outlet. I do not want to put a 2" hole in the rearmost baffle element. Thinking, thinking ...

Bob Axsom
 
Since I'm building a low powered RV-9 (135 hp out of an O-290-D2) the thought of cleaning my airplane is appealing. Cooling drag is something I have always wondered about and the more I read about it here there more I would like to give it a try.

To that end, a few years ago I saw a friend of a friend's Lancair 360 with the cowling off and wouldn't you know it, it had an aluminum plenum covering the top of the engine. Unfortunately he has since sold the plane and it has gone to South America so I can't get pictures. I have always wondered if that was a "stock" Lancair part or something the builder did on his own.
 
Left side center engine to firewall

My implementation is coming along in a cut and try development mode (read slow and uncertain). I have for now settled on four vertical sections with the two center setions divided into several segments to provide breaks for the wires, tubes, engine controls support, engine mount etc. I have the basic left center section complete but even it has much more to go as far as hole sealing, abrasion protection and support are concerned. I now have the installation plate nuts installed but the attached photogtraphs were taken at the cleco stage. They are good enough to show my configuration. At this time the two outer sections will be one piece parts. They have to compress the air down into the outlet section of the lower cowl so I plan on pointing them forward and outboard to a point near the inner edge of the cowl. The actual closure of the gap will be made with the red baffle seal material. The chalenge will be the interface of the two outer panels with the center setions which direct the air downward to the lower cowl outlet. The best way seems to be, cut the inner (trailing) edge so that it conforms exactly to the contour of the front surface of the adjacent center section. Once those mating surfaces are set, the excess at the bottom outboard corner of the center section can be cut off. I'm thinking of some tab arrangement to interconnect the center to outboard sections but the center sections will be interconnected with a simple lap joint. Current thoughts anyway... The three photos follow. If you see that I'm going wrong or overlooking a better approach (in metal), please let me know.

Bob Axsom

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Good Point - I had not thought of that

It now goes into the area behind the baffle. This area is not sealed from the area on the forward side of the baffle but it would have to travel up into that area outboard of the upper engine baffles. I also have the heated air that I have to dump when the heater is off. That I was planning to route back to an outlet in the lower baffle fairly high up. I could provide a similar vent for the oil cooler but there is a question about the need for a collector and hightemp duct to the vent. More thinking required - thank goodness this is being done in a way that is serviceable and removable.

Thank you very much.

Bob Axsom
 
Fuel line

Bob Axsom said:
If you see that I'm going wrong or overlooking a better approach (in metal), please let me know.
Is there something keeping that fuel line from rubbing on the sharp edges of the sheet metal?
 
More thoughts on heat behind the baffle

I'm thinking there have to be some holes at the bottom center of the new baffling for the nose gear. A scoop into this area over the hole would allow a vent path to the cowl outlet and prevent exiting air from impacting the flat firewall. the rising hot air will spill over the lower cowl baffling outboard of the plennum baffling where it can get to the cowl outlet that way. That is my thinking at the moment. I will keep rehashing the problem in my head as I continue on the rest of the baffling baffle work (sorry - I have thought that so often in this task that I had to put it in words - it is actually getting easier to focus as real hardware takes shape).

Bob Axsom
 
rv8ch said:
Is there something keeping that fuel line from rubbing on the sharp edges of the sheet metal?

Thanks for the input. Right now there is just a big hole but that and other similar situations have been in my mind looking for the best solution . Two problems exist, keep the items passing through the baffle protected from the sharp edges and sealing the holes to force the air to follow the baffle. Clamps, red baffle seal strip material (cut for support and closure), and Dow 736 red RTV are prominent in my mental tool box at the moment.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob, great work so far!

One thought I would offer is that I think, as the air is forced down through the cooling fins, it has a lot of downward inertia. I am not sure it really needs to be steered down, but after it hits the bottom of the cowl, then what?

Does the air exit from your cowl all the way across the bottom of the firewall? Mine just exits from the center 13", so I am steering air toward the middle.

John

Hoping for the winds to settle so I can do some testing.
 
Bob,

Any guesses when you will be able to fly and get some idea of the value of all this work? It will be exciting to see your results!

Cheering you on!
 
Bottom cowl dependent and center exit only

Nuisance said:
Bob, great work so far!

One thought I would offer is that I think, as the air is forced down through the cooling fins, it has a lot of downward inertia. I am not sure it really needs to be steered down, but after it hits the bottom of the cowl, then what?

Does the air exit from your cowl all the way across the bottom of the firewall? Mine just exits from the center 13", so I am steering air toward the middle.

John

Hoping for the winds to settle so I can do some testing.

Right now I'm using the contour of the inside of the cowl to turn the air back then the baffling will squeeze it into the standard outlet .

Bob Axsom
 
Slight delay

I intend to continue this effot to the end and report the test results but it is a long difficult task that must be done carefully and life interferes. I am working on the right side center patterns today than I have to take everything back out reinstall the cowl and wash the plane in preparation for the Rebel's Bluff Fly-in on Saturday. After that I will remove the cowl and continue workinh on the right side aft of the engine baffel. On the 18th we will be flying to California via Tucumcarri & Winslow weather permitting so that will set me back a week. The next baffel surface area development will be the outboard sections which extend forward and outward. These till channel the full with of the cowl down to the outlet width at the rear. last comes the support structure behind the baffling. If the thread seems to die have faith, I will finish the work and tell you how it comes out.

Bob Axsom
 
Thunderstorms forecast for Saturday

Thunderstorms forecast for Saturday so the trip to Rebel's Bluff is not a sure thing. Completed the master pattern, two piece part sub-patterns and two piece parts for the right center behind the engine yesterday. The more I work on this the more I realize just how congested the area is behind the engine and as I try to get everything I can behind the new baffling the nose gear support structure is harder to ignore. I hear you Pierre. Also the filter airbox and the carburator are demanding attention. The question made by John (AKA "Nuisance") about how am I turning the air back has got me thinking about a 4th conceptual element to the baffling. The first element is the left and right center section to take the air down to the bottom of the firewall to avoid the flat panel impact - this many piece assembly is what I'm working on now. The 2nd and 3rd elements which I previously called the outboard panels, are side baffels. By standing them vertically and bringing them forward and extending them outboard from the width of the outlet to the width of the cowl they are angled planes to keep the rearward traveling air from impacting the portions of the firewall outboard of the outlet. These and the rear element will be cantilevered off of the engine mount when the cowl is removed. The side baffels will have red rubber baffel seal strips along the bottom edge to prevent metal contact with the cowl as well as sealing the gap (1/2" should be enough of a gap I think). When the cowl is installed it will provide support for the cantilevered baffle structure. By using this configuration the interface between the side baffles and the rear baffel assembly can be implemented with standard aluminum angle sawed from stock. OK here is where the 4th element comes in - a "turn-back" baffle can be supported by angles mounted on the side baffles that define the contour of the "turn-back". It could happen. Meanwhile, yesterday's pieces:

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Bob Axsom
 
First test--and how to test

I finally flew my modified cowl yesterday. Before I get into the result, I want to rant a little about testing.

It is very important to get good data as you test your mods. You can't just go out to the same altitude as last time and look at your ASI, and your temp gauge, and turn the wheel on your E6B, and then claim your bird goes 246 mph.

The errors add up...the instrument error, installation error, pitot static errors, the temp probe heats up with air friction and compression, on and on. Also, in order to compare this run with the last one, you must run each test at the same weight, same density altitude, fuel flow, rpm, and cg.

Here in the rockies, the lowest I can get in my area in the summertime is 9000 ft. d. a. That works out to about 7500 ft msl on a cool summer morning. So, I do all my testing at 9000 ft. da.

In the old days before GPS, I used to fly timed runs back and forth between VORs, and do the math. This is the way Beech and Cessna used to test. Now we have a much better way, the 4 legged GPS run.

First, go to the National Test Pilot School web site...

http://www.ntps.edu/HTML/Downloads/

and download the excel spreadsheet GPS PEC.

It will do the math for either 3 or 4 leg runs, but click on the tab for 4 legs, it is much better. There is an article there by Doug Gray with the background on the math used.

Procedure: Fly a big square in the sky...with each leg roughly 90 degrees apart, and record the ground speed and ground track off your GPS. Fly the pattern as precisely as you can, holding altitude and heading, and wait for at least 3 minutes after each turn for your speed to stabilize. I will often fly 3 or 4 of these patterns, and then go play around for a while.

When you get back home, enter the data for each of the 4 legs into the spreadsheet. It will take 3 of the 4 legs and calculate the wind speed and direction, and your groundspeed. It will take all 4 sets of three legs, and calculate an average for each, and a standard deviation of the groundspeeds.

The standard deviation is a measure of the quality of your data. If it is more than 1.0, either you didn't fly precisely enough, or the wind aloft was varying, or there was verticle movement of the airmass that caused the data to be inconsistant.

Living in the mountains, I need pretty calm winds, or I will get vertical movement of the airflow over the peaks. On a good quiet day, I will get std dev to be less than .5 for every run...sometimes I get lucky and it is zero.

So, now to yesterdays results...

In spite of a winds aloft forecast that said 5 to 10 kts at 12,000 ft, I had more like 20, and variable. I knew from the bouncing around that I was not going to get good data. In fact, the std dev turned out to be 4.7, which is the highest I have seen (I suppose some days would have been worse, but then I didn't even take data).

So, the fact that my resulting speed was a little faster means nothing...being 1.7 kts faster means little when the speed is varying 4.7 kts on average between the runs.

Perhaps meaningful, though, was that my CHTs were about 10 to 15 dF lower than I would expect at that power setting and OAT. Maybe I have improved the airflow after all?

Stay tuned!

John
 
Carb Fairing and vertical stabilization

John, since you got me conceptualizing a turnback baffle segment I came up with another idea. I can mount a faring for the carbutator and put a baffle seal on it to limit upward vertical displacement of the cantilevered baffle structure.

Bob Axsom

P.S. Didn't get to go to Rebel's Bluff today because of "get back" weather concerns.
 
Bob, haven't heard from you in a while.

I finally got some smooth air to test the steering baffles.

Looks like I got half a knot...or not...or naught.

Oh well...see you in Dayton!

John
 
Cowling Modifications

If anyone is interested in seeing a lower cowl mod made out of fiberglass similar to Bob Anxton, or plenum changes to improve cooling or speed, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JamesAircraft/
Join the group as it is free and look up Alan Judy cowling mods in the pictures. Also you can do a search for cooling problems and find related links with questions and answers. I have 50 plus pics and much information there if anyone is interested. AJ
 
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