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Ski Truck

YellerDaisy

YellerDaisy

Well Known Member
Hi all,

I finished modifying my -3 to carry my skis and can't wait to use it to do a bit of skiing this year! This topic has been discussed before so nothing new but thought someone might like to see the approach that I took.

The details on my blog at Ski Truck Epilogue.

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BTW: The skis are not secured in the above photo but will be when they actually go flying. Also, the bindings do not interfere with the elevator control. Obviously, control system interference would make for a really lousy day so avoiding that was one of the top safety issues with a mod like this.
 
Nice mod

Been thinking about this myself for my 9A.

Have you calculated what this does to balance? Skis are not light and way back in the tail I can see maybe causing an issue with CG. Not sure how I would address this question prior to build.

Would be interested in seeing your restraint system too.

Thanks,

Tom
 
Hey JD - I really like the design - very simple, low added weight to the aircraft, and yes - wouldn't we all like to take our skis in our single seater and head to the mountains!

I too would like to see how your W&B comes out though - granted, every RV-3 is different, and a lot depends on what prop you used and where your battery is...but our -3 is biased towards the aft end of the envelope already, and I doubt we could stay in the envelope with bindings back behind the baggage bulkhead.

I know that for our airplane, I'd probably have to do a re-weigh to convince myself we were OK.

Paul
 
Av8torTom said:
Have you calculated what this does to balance? Skis are not light and way back in the tail I can see maybe causing an issue with CG. Not sure how I would address this question prior to build.
Click to expand...

Hi Tom. Yep, I ran the numbers. My skis weight 12 pounds. The balance point (of the skis) is such that it sits right on the aft baggage compartment bulkhead when loaded. In my simple mind, this equates to 12 pounds sitting on bulkhead F-306. In my RV-3, F-306 and is 122" aft of the datum. Skipping over the math, this results in the CG moving 6 tenths of inch aft when the skis are loaded. The ski poles don't weigh much of anything (ounces) so I didn't worry about them. However; ski boots are heavy. I tend to fly with an aft CG and so always load as much heavy stuff in front of me as possible (between my feet near the pedals). Camping trips have been my heaviest of loads and things like water and food goes up front.

Av8torTom said:
Would be interested in seeing your restraint system too.
Click to expand...

I'll take a photo the next time I load things up. It is nothing fancy, just a bunch of chord and bungees holding the skis from moving up/down and fore/aft. The way the ski bindings straddle the U-channel in the bulkhead prevents them from moving fore/aft more than about an inch (but I won't count on that - will still tie things down).
 
Ironflight said:
Hey JD - I really like the design - very simple, low added weight to the aircraft, and yes - wouldn't we all like to take our skis in our single seater and head to the mountains!
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul!

Ironflight said:
I too would like to see how your W&B comes out though
Click to expand...

Full fuel and skis, it comes out at 62.9". To that, boots and warm clothes have to be added but those things are distributed better (not so far aft). All in all, I expect to carry about 40 pounds of gear when skiiing with a CG of 62.8" (moves forward when the boots are stationed at about 55") . This is more favorable than the 60 pounds and high density altitudes normally carried on camping trips. Note: these are calculated numbers.

Home is E98 at 5000' MSL and I've made many departures with camping loads from strips in Idaho, Utah, and New Mexico. The worst was probably Negrito at 8143' MSL and 70 degrees (nearly 11,000' DA) and Daisy does just great - in fact, it's pretty impressive compared to many of the other aircraft. Climbing out of Price, UT with all my gear (on the way to Idaho), I found myself thinking that an O-320 just isn't enough and that I need more - after all, here I am at a DA of about 8500' and I'm only climbing at 800 FPM at 120 mph IAS. Then I realized what I was thinking! Kinda funny - most aviators would LOVE that kind of performance under any conditions never mind fully load, high, and hot! Daisy is spectacular - I think I luuvvv her!!
 
Dang - that's cool JD!

Makes me think I might have to do some calculations for Tsam....and maybe we want one of those lightweight LiFe batteries to replace the Odyssey - that'd buy us back 15 lbs right behind the pilot's backside.
 
Ironflight said:
Dang - that's cool JD!
Click to expand...

To give credit where it's due, the whole thing was my RV-4 buddy's idea. He's been doing the day ski trip for years. I mentioned joining him this year and that set the whole mod in motion.

Ironflight said:
....and maybe we want one of those lightweight LiFe batteries to replace the Odyssey - that'd buy us back 15 lbs right behind the pilot's backside.
Click to expand...

I'm at an advantage here - and am working on it. I've removed about forty pounds right out of the pilot seat without having to make ANY mods to the airplane and have about another forty left to go. :eek:
 
i am sure glad you are not having to try to due this years ago when the skis went 7 feet long. that is a lot of gear for a single seater. i will definitely keep tabs on this post and be lookn for some pics of your adventures. a VAF sticker on your helmet atop the first mountain pic. you could probably get a group of VAF skiers to join up with you. what areas are you planning on flying to? i am a long time skier east and west coast, cats, helis, i love the sport, not the sub zero wx. keep us posted. keep um turning. :cool:
 
turbo said:
i am sure glad you are not having to try to due this years ago when the skis went 7 feet long.
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You got that right turbo! ;) I've been using an old set of 210 Rossi's until this little plan developed. The kids on the hill would look at me just like I used to look at the old geezers using the antique equipment! :eek: I grabbed a set of used 165's at the local ski swap a month or so back knowing I needed something shorter to fit into the plane. I guess I'll be "hip" this year!


turbo said:
you could probably get a group of VAF skiers to join up with you. what areas are you planning on flying to?
Click to expand...

I'll post a note when we go. I expect short notice, my RV-4 friend watches for the weather window that needs to align on a good discount ticket day. I believe the plan is to fly into Pagosa Springs, CO (PSO - ~1 hour flight) and ski Wolf Creek and/or fly into Toas, NM (SKX - ~50 mins) and ski Toas.
 
holly molly, i didnt think there was anyone left out there skiing on 210s. when i was a kid they told me to me to raise my hand to measure me for skis and i made it into a 210. those rossis were great for downhilling it. you are going to be amazed on the difference. my skis have slowly shortened like my hair to near nothing. i hope to make a trip to utah, snowbasin powder, to see if i still have what it takes. post some pics of your adventure.
back in the good old days. notice the watermelon hat. :eek:

img0780b.jpg
 
YellerDaisy said:
Obviously, control system interference would make for a really lousy day so avoiding that was one of the top safety issues with a mod like this.
Click to expand...

I am imagining that the full panel bulkhead behind the baggage compartment on the RV3 might be structural. Did you ask Van's engineers what they thought about this mod ?
 
Captain Avgas said:
I am imagining that the full panel bulkhead behind the baggage compartment on the RV3 might be structural. Did you ask Van's engineers what they thought about this mod ?
Click to expand...

Actually Bob, the plans don't even show you how to attach it - that is left up to the builder's imagination. I used six little mounting tabs with a #8 screw each, in the same fashion as for the upper rear baggage bulkhead of the -8. The fact that they don't tell you how it is attached tells me that it is up to the builder....and by inference, it probably isn't that critical.

Paul
 
Never by into......

....... that new fangaled gear. 210's are alright but 223's and 240's are where the real fun begin. Fast IS Fun! Couldn't you have put your real skis, one on each side of your shoulders? Just because the kids are doing it doesn't make it right.:D
 
hydroguy2 said:
kids011.jpg


Not my helmet, but figure this was close enough.
Click to expand...

I've thought about building a hammock to hold my skis in my 7.
We're heading out to Park City next Friday. Wish I could fly it there but I'm not brave enough to do the Florida to Utah flight this time of year.

My Rossis are 170 . They're only 6 years old & not of the 210 vintage.
I'll see if I can get a VAF shot.
 
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Captain Avgas said:
I am imagining that the full panel bulkhead behind the baggage compartment on the RV3 might be structural. Did you ask Van's engineers what they thought about this mod ?
Click to expand...

I think it'll be ok. I used the same style piano hinge as I used on my spar when I cut it for my neat folding wing design. ;)

Definately not structural on the -3.
 
flyinmonque said:
....... that new fangaled gear. 210's are alright but 223's and 240's are where the real fun begin. Fast IS Fun! Couldn't you have put your real skis, one on each side of your shoulders?
Click to expand...

That might work with an RV-4 but on the -3 there is no access to anything behind you (without some serious mods).

flyinmonque said:
Just because the kids are doing it doesn't make it right.:D
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I suspect "the kids" may not agree!! ;)
 
Hey Brian......

........do you know how to tell the good snow boarders from the "Bad" one's?

The good ones wear one on each foot!:D
 
n5lp said:
When we get into designs like the 6 and 7 the baggage bulkhead is an issue. It is structural in these airplanes.
Click to expand...

My thoughts were to try & retain the structural integrity and have a quarter panel size(maybe 8x8)baggage panel door with a piano hinge that could drop down when in use. Otherwise, when closed, it would again be secured via screws.
I'd use a hammock secured to the back of the seat & extend it through the baggage door.
If we move back out west, I might consider it. But from Florida, it's still too long of a flight west or north to make it worthwhile.

Larry, we're still trying to make it back to ABQ. We just loved living there.
 
flyinmonque said:
........do you know how to tell the good snow boarders from the "Bad" one's?

The good ones wear one on each foot!:D
Click to expand...

Kind of like a nosewheel, some people need stability and balance. :D

I still own skis, but after years of ski patrolling I have found I prefer powder days on my board. The board is also much easier to hang out waiting for the grandkids.
 
I still own skis, but after years of ski patrolling I have found I prefer powder days on my board. The board is also much easier to hang out waiting for the grandkids.
Click to expand...
How do you keep your knuckles from dragging? High heeled boots?
 
Back to CG.

The balance point (of the skis) is such that it sits right on the aft baggage compartment bulkhead when loaded.
Click to expand...

Looking at the original photos, the CG of the skis are clearly behind the aft baggage compartment bulkhead. If it were on the bulkhead, the skis would be perfectly balanced and would not put any weight on the bulkhead further aft. Or are the skis mounted further forward in the final configuration? I guess there could be tungsten weights in the ski tips....
 
Just got done......

.......ripping up the fresh powder at SBS for about 5+ hrs. This old man still has the legs. :) Anyone heading here? Still a little sketchy but not bad for this time of year. Rocky when we going to get together and terrorize the kids?
 
The conservative approach.

YellerDaisy said:
I think it'll be ok. I used the same style piano hinge as I used on my spar when I cut it for my neat folding wing design. ;)

Definately not structural on the -3.
Click to expand...

Certainly the baggage bulkhead panel is a mandatory structural element on the side by side RVs. It may not be mandatory on the RV-3 but all panels on a monocoque construction transmit forces and there would be structural advantages in having the baggage bulkhead panel in place during flight. Having that panel in place would also preclude the possibility of items getting from the baggage area into the rear of the aircraft and jamming the elevator controls.

Anyway, this is what Vans have to say on the issue of the baggage bulkhead panel being in place in the RV-3:

"I've never seen it specified for the RV-3, but treating it that way would be the conservative approach -- always good in structural questions".
 
Ski mount

I built a Ski mounting adaptation in my 9A by splitting the upper section of the baggage bulkhead so that it can be removed for inserting skis. I reinforced the opening, as that is a structural member, and built a web "nest" in the next aft section to keep anything from falling into control members etc.
The skis anchor on the baggage bulkhead and the brace behind the right seat. I do not anticipate flying with two people and two pr skis, for both safety and WB reasons.

It also helps that I telemark ski, so my skis and bindings are considerably lighter than Alpine gear.

I have not used this for this application yet, but remember doing something similarly in a Cherokee years ago (Far less safe!)

It would also work well for other long light items like a fly rod case.

Jim Frisbie
RV-9A 280hrs.
 
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