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Toggle switches

S

snoop9erdog

Well Known Member
All, does anyone have a recommendation for toggle switches that are fairly compact on the back side (electrical connection side)? Not sure if it's possible, but my goal is to use Van's standard instrument panel with 10" G3X's and still fit my line of toggles under the PFD panel. Looking At about a 1-1/2" available on the front of the panel which will be close but should work, however on the backside it may be an issue.

Trying real hard to avoid adding a switch panel to the bottom of the instrument panel and keep that leg room.

I really like the standard panel dims.

Anybody contemplating this?
 
You might consider putting you switches above the EFIS. Since the top of the panel is curved, the EFIS will only impact the top at the very edges.

I placed all my switches except for the Master and Mags across the top of the panel. Master is to the left of the EFIS and Mags are on the sub panel with the Throttle and Mixture.

Just another idea.
 
Stock height panel with Honeywell TL switches.
KW-G3X-1200.jpg
 
Thx

Thank you Mel And Walt. I will look at space above.

Walt yours is proof that there is sufficient space. Mine is almost an identical panel exceptive got a GTN 625 to go in place of one of the gtr 200's.

Question, how do you like the 245? I think I'll splurge for it if I go duel comms.

I'm already going to have to get the right screen later. Will put a plate over the space but have the harness ready to plug in.

I'll check out the Honeywells

Thx again
 
snoop9erdog said:
Walt yours is proof that there is sufficient space. Mine is almost an identical panel exceptive got a GTN 625 to go in place of one of the gtr 200's.

Question, how do you like the 245? I think I'll splurge for it if I go duel comms.

I'm already going to have to get the right screen later. Will put a plate over the space but have the harness ready to plug in.

I'll check out the Honeywells

Thx again
Click to expand...

The 245 is agreat unit, every panel I do has one, including my own.
 
I put my switches at the top. I used breaker switches where ever I could because it saves needing two things on the panel. Also I had a toggle switch from Carling Technologies that is made with the connection lugs riveted on. One of the rivets is loose and made a bad connection. Just something to keep a watch out for.
 
EFIS bezel

Also note, the EFIS is smaller on the backside than on the front, so you will have more room on the backside for switches. Keep in mind viewing angle to read graphics adequately. Should have enough room though no problem!
 
Walt, do the Honeywell TL?s use the same wiring nomenclature as the Carling switches Bob Nuclkles recommends? IE 2-1, 1-1 etc.
Tim Andres
 
tim2542 said:
Walt, do the Honeywell TL?s use the same wiring nomenclature as the Carling switches Bob Nuclkles recommends? IE 2-1, 1-1 etc.
Tim Andres
Click to expand...

I suspect they are but have never compared directly. The data sheet for the TL switches are readily available.
 
Benefits

What would be the benefit of one over the other....the TL verse the Carling type? Better quality? How much are the TL's?
 
I'll take a swing at it. FWIW, my opinion is that it's the question of whether 'better is the enemy of good enough'. Many thousands of Carling switches are flying successfully in homebuilts. I'm confident that B&C wouldn't sell them if they didn't consider them good enough for the job. I suspect that the TL series are higher quality, but the prices I've seen are a lot higher. Question is, do you *need* higher quality, or just want it.
 
rv7charlie said:
I'll take a swing at it. FWIW, my opinion is that it's the question of whether 'better is the enemy of good enough'. Many thousands of Carling switches are flying successfully in homebuilts. I'm confident that B&C wouldn't sell them if they didn't consider them good enough for the job. I suspect that the TL series are higher quality, but the prices I've seen are a lot higher. Question is, do you *need* higher quality, or just want it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if the S700 switches are still made by Carling.

They don't seem to be lited on their web site. http://www.carlingtech.com/toggle-switches
 
Honeywell

I bought a full set (and more) of Carlings, and they seemed fine. I saw the honeywell switches somewhere on the internet, and thought I'd buy a couple just to see how they are different, and I found them to be much higher quality. I'm using all honeywell toggle switches now on the panel. Staying with the carlings for the side where I have my light switches, just to avoid re-doing the wire ends (the honeywells have ring terminals, not 1/4" spades).
 
And while this is personal preference, the ring terminal thing is a major negative for me. I've been tinkering behind instrument panels since my 1st homebuilt almost 30 years ago, and messing with an unmounted switch, a ring terminal, a washer, and a 1/4" long slot head screw while on my back under a panel in the dark is only slightly more fun than a root canal. And I consider the reliability of a quality blade terminal to be at least equal to a screw/ring terminal. Torque applied to the terminal (from load on the harness when doing work in the area) can never loosen a blade terminal, but it can with a ring terminal.
 
Ring terminal vs spade

rv7charlie said:
And while this is personal preference, the ring terminal thing is a major negative for me. ...
Click to expand...
I agree, but I could not find the honeywell switches with the spade, so I went with the ring terminals. I've designed my panel as Paul recommended, so that it will come out and sit flat on my lap or on the seat, so the holes for the ring terminals are facing up - not planning to do anything behind the panel while on my back! :D
 
I took that a step further in my -7 build. The switches are on a pair of subpanels (strips on either side of the throttle array) that screw to the bottom of the main instrument panel. All wires go to the left side on the left panel, and right side for the right. The switch arrays can be worked on as you describe, or dropped to the floor while the main panel comes off and its instruments get unplugged so it can be removed for maintenance. Having all the switched power stuff on separate panels makes getting the instrument panel out a lot simpler.

I still won't use ring terminals, unless it's unavoidable. :)
 
rv8ch said:
I agree, but I could not find the honeywell switches with the spade, so I went with the ring terminals. I've designed my panel as Paul recommended, so that it will come out and sit flat on my lap or on the seat, so the holes for the ring terminals are facing up - not planning to do anything behind the panel while on my back! :D
Click to expand...

I always use solder terminals. I find a locking toggle switch like this to be a good product at a reasonable price: https://www.alliedelec.com/nkk-switches-s6al/70192232/

I run a piece of heatshrink over the solder joint and the wires are bundled so there is no chance of fatigue failure. I offer this makes for an overall neat install.

For my planes the panel comes out as a unit and on the bench in about 15 minutes. No disconnecting of switches and never on my back with my head under the panel.

Carl
 
rv8ch said:
That is a good-looking switch.

70192232.jpg
Click to expand...

Not wishing to ignite another related war... :) But, do you notice that the switch pictured does not have a DC current rating?

The Honeywell switches are rated for 15 to 20 Amps at 12/24 v DC

Since Carling no longer makes the S700 I can't find a data sheet, but I would probably bet they don't have a DC amp rating either.

The ability to switch high DC currents affects the contact design and materials and will add to the switch cost.
 
Bob Knuckles input in DC switches

FWIW, I recently read Bob?s treatise on switch ratings and failure mode. He ascerts the 12V DC rating is about the same as the 125v AC rating for reasons stated in his literature.
 
az_gila said:
Not wishing to ignite another related war... :) But, do you notice that the switch pictured does not have a DC current rating?

The Honeywell switches are rated for 15 to 20 Amps at 12/24 v DC

Since Carling no longer makes the S700 I can't find a data sheet, but I would probably bet they don't have a DC amp rating either.

The ability to switch high DC currents affects the contact design and materials and will add to the switch cost.
Click to expand...

The spec sheet for these switches list contact rating of 20 amps at 30VDC.

That said, I have never had applications for any switch over a few amps. For the larger loads I use a switch breakers (landing lights, pitot heat, boost pump, etc.) or relays to feed the two avionics busses from the batteries. As example I use two on-off-on locking toggle switches, one for each avionics buss to control which battery they get power from (left buss, left battery - normal, left buss, right battery alternate, etc.). In this application they are switching 100ma.

Carl
 
rv7charlie said:
I'll take a swing at it. FWIW, my opinion is that it's the question of whether 'better is the enemy of good enough'. Many thousands of Carling switches are flying successfully in homebuilts. I'm confident that B&C wouldn't sell them if they didn't consider them good enough for the job. I suspect that the TL series are higher quality, but the prices I've seen are a lot higher. Question is, do you *need* higher quality, or just want it.
Click to expand...

I have documented failures of Carling switches. I posted this information about 12 years ago on this site and had Bob Nuckolls follow up with a detailed analysis on the Aeroelectric forum. In my opinion, they should never be used in aircraft of any kind. My Rocket uses the Honeywell TLs where required, but most of my switches are low-current rated (gold contacts) that control relays. The socketed relays are located in a compartment with easy access. This is more like an automotive architecture. I will do this again on my next project. Open architecture, easy to maintain and no software required.

The Carling switches use hollow rivets to attach the terminals. These work loose with vibration, stress, or current overload. The TL's are better. I pulled all of the Carlings out of my 9A and replaced them with TLs because I didn't want a fire in flight.

FMI http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=11538&highlight=Carling+switch+failure.
 
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Datasheet

Carl Froehlich said:
The spec sheet for these switches list contact rating of 20 amps at 30VDC.

......
Carl
Click to expand...

I presume you are talking abut the Honeywell spec sheet. :)

Does anyone have an actual datasheet for the so-called Carling S700 switches that aren't made by Carling anynmore?
 
az_gila said:
Not wishing to ignite another related war... :) But, do you notice that the switch pictured does not have a DC current rating?

The Honeywell switches are rated for 15 to 20 Amps at 12/24 v DC

Since Carling no longer makes the S700 I can't find a data sheet, but I would probably bet they don't have a DC amp rating either.

The ability to switch high DC currents affects the contact design and materials and will add to the switch cost.
Click to expand...

I am considering using the NKK S series switches. The Datasheet lists both their AC and DC ratings. They are rated for DC, they just don't print it on the switch apparently.

https://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/stoggleslowcap.pdf
 
az_gila said:
Thanks... I lost track that we were now talking of a third manufacturer...:)

But, does anyone have a not-Carling S700 data sheet?
Click to expand...

I could never find one, but did call ACS on my 6 build and they confirmed that the switches they get from Carling are modified from stock configuration to support DC applications. Not sure how reliable this is.

Larry
 
lr172 said:
I could never find one, but did call ACS on my 6 build and they confirmed that the switches they get from Carling are modified from stock configuration to support DC applications. Not sure how reliable this is.

Larry
Click to expand...

Interesting, based on the physical appearance and dimensions I think it's this series of switches -

http://www.carlingtech.com/sites/default/files/documents/G-SeriesSW_Details_&_COS.pdf

What makes it interesting is this comment in the data sheet header - "The G-Series is appropriate for usage in low voltage DC applications."

No details, just a "call the factory" comment for additional info on DC ratings. I bet ACS just gets standard ones, but it would be nice to have actual ratings..:)
 
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