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help please for repair tips/jig

Mr Charles

Mr Charles

Well Known Member
I had an engine die on my RV 4 on a low pass and rolled thru a ditch at the end of a grass strip.:( Insurance company and I have worked out some details, and I think for the most part I am going to try and do most of the repairs myself...I have never built a plane, including this one, but during a long ownership, have made some upgrades and repairs, and feel I can fabricate and repair the damage, but will really need advice and tips from all you friendly folks here on the forum...
The worst of the damage was to the landing gear/firewall and engine mount. (This plane had the original short gear legs, and I always wanted to upgrade to the longer ones) :) I guess the first question, is even if it is all fixable, and I can do it myself, am I smart to do so? The plane was originally built with an IO 360, and has Christianson inverted oil, Bernie Warneke wood prop, Harmon fluid dampener, and has about 700 hrs total time....I had recently totally reworked all the original polyester cowl and repainted a large portion of the paint scheme.
2ztfy9e.jpg
[/IMG] Here is after pic...
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[/IMG] I will post more pics as I go through this unhappy experience...
First order of business if I repair concerns a fuselage jig or way to support fuselage...I am thinking of something that bolts into the wing spar receiver area?
Thanks in advance...
Charles
 
No advice

I can't give you any advice, but I'm glad you are OK. From what I can see it looks like the structure held-up pretty well, and it appears that like good advice is already on it's way - good luck with the repairs.

Tom
 
repairs rv4

We repaired similar damage a couple of years ago, the parts were surprisingly cheap from van's. The engine mount was repaired to new condition by the fellow who builds them for Van. We replaced the lower half of the firewall and the aluminium angle on the bottom. The fuel tank was repaired by cutting a access hole in the rear baffle and covering it with a lid. We left the small dent in the bottom of the tank. If the wings come off without a fight there is unlikely anything twisted or bend and I wouldn't think you need a jig other than something to support the fuselage while working on it.
good luck chuck
 
Fix it

It looks like a nice -4 and we only have very few of them as it is, so yes you should fix it.

If you?re looking to go to the long legs, I believe Van?s has what you need on the shelf, I know I just delivered some engine mounts. If you decide to stay with the short gear then you can give me a call or e-mail any time to discuss your options for repair or replacement of your engine mount. Best of luck whatever you decide.
 
Charles, my heart goes out to you. :( I agree with Russ and get started. You can get plenty of help as, if and when you need it.

Best to you!!
 
Firewall repair & engine mount gear replacement

Mr Charles said:
The worst of the damage was to the landing gear/firewall and engine mount. (This plane had the original short gear legs, and I always wanted to upgrade to the longer ones) :) I guess the first question, is even if it is all fixable, and I can do it myself, am I smart to do so? First order of business if I repair concerns a fuselage jig or way to support fuselage...I am thinking of something that bolts into the wing spar receiver area?
Thanks in advance...
Charles
Click to expand...

I can somewhat relate to your problem. I had an engine stoppage on takeoff in 1988 on my new RV-4, and landed very hard, bending the gear legs. Fortunately I lived close to Van's, and Dick VG visited the airstrip where I incurred the damage. He was flying the then new RV-6 and took my bent gear legs with him and sent them out to be straightened.

First order of business is to remove the engine, all baffling, etc. Then I de-rivetted the lower half of the stainless firewall (only portion bent on mine)and the bottom corner 4130 brackets that incorporate the engine mount bolts. Whether you replace the brackets depends on their condition. I had to replace mine, and subsequently reinforced that area. The two center bolts that also attach the engine mount, depends on how they faired in your case. You may have some work on them also.

In my case I worked on the repairs most evenings and every weekend day and was back in the air in 30 days. You should be able to do the same, but in your case you also want to change to the longer gear legs, which I recommend. Back in 1988 the longer gear legs were not yet available.

I still fly an RV-4, after building an RV-9A, selling after 5 years, and going back to the airplane I liked best.. the RV-4 with an 0-360, C/S that I converted to a fastback.

Jake Thiessen
Independence, OR
 
Not sure why it died...with the fluid dampener and wood prop, the engine has always idled smoothly...but I kept the idle speed down pretty low as just an extra 100 or so rpm and it really didn't like slowing down!!! I usually three point, and with the short gear, just above stall or at stall, the tailwheel always touches first...more thrust at idle just made it worse. But I have flown it 5 years or so with no issues. On the previous flight, and I think on one a few weeks earlier, it died during taxi, but I attributed it to a low idle and the engine not yet completely warmed up. Inspection since the ill fated ditch jump has led to me finding a slight amount of play in the in the throttle shaft of the fuel injection body...
axg2hc.jpg
[/IMG]
Not sure if this was affecting idle, but suspect it at this point. Have not found anything else.
 
Nice Plane

Charles,

That's a great looking 4, and the prop looks like it came through without a scratch. Just think of all the upgrades you can make while you've got it in the shop. Hope your insurer is generous and that you've got some local help tools and pointers. Congrats on getting down without more serious damage or injury.

Best Wishes,

John
 
Prop

There was an electric fence wire at the ditch...prop has a small indentation on the face...probably repairable...but shortly before this happened, I had just purchased a like-new Sensenich prop...but couldn't use it without a new spinner...my old cowl and spinner is the 12" variety...so I am thinking that now may be the time to convert to the new epoxy cowl and spinner...which is 13"??? if I recall correctly...and put on my "new" prop!
Insurance adjuster seems to be extremely reasonable and willing to work with me on all this...
Charles
 
Guys...really appreciate the replys...Any tips for supporting the plane in order to do the work? I would like to rig something that I can possible add a couple of castors to, in order to be able to move it occasionally in my shop, as I have limited space...I have been trying to think of a simple fixture that maybe bolts into the wing spar receptacles, but thought I would check others ideas so I am not re-inventing the wheel here!
 
I purchased my 7 under construction and it had some laminations of plywood the same as the wing spar thickness and inserted into the fuse spar. The ends sat on a couple of HF dollys. I also have seen the same concept (maybe Chad Jensens 7?) with a couple of pipes on the end that could be adjusted for height like a tubular jackstand. I like this better as it does not protrude from the side as much and easier to workaround. I don't know the geometry of the 4 but this worked on the 7.
 
I am assuming that there is no damage to the wings and carry through so you do not want to pull the wings for the fix. I would fabricate a dolly type fixture. some 4x4's for a lower frame, a saddle or two along the rear fuse, and maybe a longer beam that would use the tie down holes to hold the wings steady. you could then get everything level along the axises. just a quick thought.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
I am assuming that there is no damage to the wings and carry through so you do not want to pull the wings for the fix. I would fabricate a dolly type fixture. some 4x4's for a lower frame, a saddle or two along the rear fuse, and maybe a longer beam that would use the tie down holes to hold the wings steady. you could then get everything level along the axises. just a quick thought.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
Looks like the skin is also wrinkled at the lower motor mount attach, you may need to install the new style mount fittings and gussets while you're in there.
 
Charles,
I supported my entire fuselage on a motorcycle lift even with the wings on. Most are very capable off supporting 1500 lbs.

You'll have to take off the antenna's and remove the fuel vents. Nice thing is on some of the lifts you can roll it around a shop
Jack
 
I already pulled the wings...I wanted to have plane in my shop instead of trying to work out of the hanger...Yes, noticed the skin wrinkles...didn't know about new style mounts and gussets...but will use those I'm sure. I assume I will need to remove and replace those two side skins also???
So, a dolly type fixture? Can I set the fuselage belly onto something? I assume large surface area and very padded? Any pics appreciated...
Charles
 
Engine mount and gear legs

I have a new engine mount dynofocal and short gear legs if you are interested in them. Will sell them cheap. If you are interested, let me know and I will send pictures.

You can email me at [email protected]
 
Is this OK for support?

I utilized my 2 post car lift and tried to make a couple of support cradles...seems to work fine but I don't want to put too much stress on belly and cause any damage...
2jtvs1.jpg

2ia6c69.jpg

2gtukhg.jpg

I plan to build a wood frame at some point and place on some castors for mobility...but can at least get started removing engine mount now...and it will sure make for an easy belly cleaning!!!:)
I would really appreciate comments/feedback constructive criticism on my supports.
Charles
 
Charles,

Without the engine, there is so little weight that I don't see any issues at all with what you are doing. Just make sure you are supporting at the spar in the front and a rib in the back. But again, so little weight.

A bigger issue is going to be your getting tired of walking around and over the hoist all the time. You will find it a real pain after awhile :(

BTW, nice work space!
 
Repaired an RV-8 that had similar damage. One thing that helped a thousand percent was the ability to roll the airplane on it's side to have easy access to the bottom. I just inserted a short false spar to one side of the fuse that extended past the bottom skin overhang and bolted two one/bys to either side of it and extended them up the fuse and mounted/clamped them to the fuse deck. Rest the tail right ahead of the stab/rudder on a padded frame that is tall enough to clear the elevator when rotated.
Cant say how much this helps with access to the bottom of the fuse. Must have rolled that thing a hundred times.
 
Thanks!!

I really appreciate all the comments and help offered! I am getting pretty into the repair at this point. The hoist has sure made it nice to raise and lower to comfortable working height for whatever area I am working on. Including the underside! And I can lower it almost to the floor to access over the top!
I have de-riveted all areas and am working on straightening a couple of minor wrinkles. Have ordered all the parts needed...well, MOST:), from Van's...new lower gussets, longer gear leg/engine mount, and the new epoxy cowl kit!
Question...I am attempting to straighten the small wrinkles at the lower corners...as I don't see how I can replace the complete side skin as the overlap joint appears to be under a bulkhead (404)...which I guess 404G could be removed for bucking access...?? Comments on wrinkle repair vs complete skin replacement??

Mr Charles
 
TBI and slosh

Mr. Charles,
I had a similar incident with the Ellison TBI dying on me at low idle, and found Slosh fuel tank sealant in the tanks had started to flake off. Most of the older RVs used this material for fuel tanks. The small particles had evidently clogged some of the openings in the TBI. It didn't show except at idle since the mixture adjustment is different for idle and normal operation. Sent the TBI back to the manufacturer and had the terrible task of having the slosh removed and tanks resealed. Readjusting the mixture for idle usually takes a few tries, but then it's a great system. Good luck on your repairs, and it's worth it.

Bill McLean
RV-4 Slider
lower Alabama
 
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