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Regretting ordering a slider

It must be Ground Hog Day!

Has anyone built access hatches in front of the canopy and behind the firewall? I would love to have good access to the areas just on the cockpit side of the firewall.

Same question you asked in Post 36 and was answered in Post 39.:confused:
 
remove entire panel?

What is all this "getting under the panel" about???
What would you want to get under the panel for?

I remember wishing I'd never have to pull a tank, go into the back of the fuse, or crawl upside down under the panel. I've done all of them since first flight. You may as well plan for and expect it.

I've done a couple wiring tweaks to the airplane by going under or over the panel in my tip up canopy. But I've also decided to make some more involved changes once or twice where it was easiest just to remove the entire panel and bring it home where it's simply more comfortable and I can do a better job. Having a tip-up and a wiring harness with disconnects makes this very easy to do.

Question for the slider crowd: How easy is it to remove the entire panel?

(In my case, wiring changes were avionics upgrades and taking advantage of new capabilities for my existing equipment that were not available when I first bought the equipment. )
 
I have a slider on my 6A and when in the design phase I made all of my wire runs and most all of the equipment (encoder, volt reg, manifold pressure transducer, etc.) locations low. I have since updated my panel with a Dynon D100 and 2 axis auto-pilot with no difficulty. The first thing I do is remove both seat cushions and seat backs (approx 2 minutes of work). I use a couple of cushions to lay on with a larger cushion on the floorboard to lay my head on, what could be better than able to lay down comfortably while on the job!
 
Have the procedure down

I am over 60 and when I have to get under the panel, I take out the passenger seat, the control stick, lay down cushioning material, and am set for whatever I need to do. Have gotten use to looking at things upside down. You can practice at home laying on the floor with a book upside down.
 
Panel

installed the affordable ( centered) three piece panel, I can remove each section or the entire panel with ease. Also installing access planels, can't get much simpler for ease of access.
 
Slider Panel

I too was worried about having to get under the panel after I was done. I've had to go in several times since. I always took the seat out, and got cushions. When I went to get my transponder check done, the tech working on it said he needed to see something under the panel. This guy was about 6' and quite hefty. I asked if he wanted me to get in there, he said nope, I got it. I watched as he positioned himself on the wing facing away from the fuse, then lowered himself in and was on his back across the front seats. He was able to twist his torso and do whatever he needed to do. The next time I went under the panel, I tried it. It was very easy to get in and comfortable as well!!.

No worries anymore :)

As far as visibilty goes, my last plane was a Mooney. I feel like I'm in a convertible, lol.
 
It would be nice if people posted links to these removable instrument panels if available commercially.

I hate trying to work on stuff behind the panel...and yes it has to be done.
 
I've decided to forego a panel with removable sections on the theory that EFIS screen can be easily pulled to create pretty big access holes.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing (still)
 
Visibility

I have a slider and never really felt disadvantaged by visibility. Kind of wondering about why, I did an interesting experiment here at my computer while looking out the window at our rare snow in Seattle. If you take a standard ruler and hold it verticle about 18 inches from your eyes, you can see right through it. That is you can see everything in the background with the ruler 'blocking' your view. However, if you turn it horizontal the ruler blocks your view. So the overhead part of the roll bar does block our view on a slider but the verticle parts not so much. Probably why I never really noticed the roll bar being in my way vision wise.
 
I have a slider and never really felt disadvantaged by visibility. Kind of wondering about why, I did an interesting experiment here at my computer while looking out the window at our rare snow in Seattle. If you take a standard ruler and hold it verticle about 18 inches from your eyes, you can see right through it. That is you can see everything in the background with the ruler 'blocking' your view. However, if you turn it horizontal the ruler blocks your view. So the overhead part of the roll bar does block our view on a slider but the verticle parts not so much. Probably why I never really noticed the roll bar being in my way vision wise.

Do you think that has something to do with your eyes being horizontal?
Take a picture and see if any part of it is blocked by the bar. Your visibility IS BEING BLOCKED.
 
Do you think that has something to do with your eyes being horizontal?
Take a picture and see if any part of it is blocked by the bar. Your visibility IS BEING BLOCKED.

And no matter how much your head or eyes move, the picture remains the same. But that's not how it is in the cockpit. I'm always looking around that "protective" bar..............that's so cool in numerous ways.
 
Do you think that has something to do with your eyes being horizontal?
Take a picture and see if any part of it is blocked by the bar. Your visibility IS BEING BLOCKED.
If you take a picture it is the same as looking with one eye, so yes it is blocked in all views. But since we have two eyes, the verticle parts don't block the view.
 
I have a slider and never really felt disadvantaged by visibility. Kind of wondering about why, I did an interesting experiment here at my computer while looking out the window at our rare snow in Seattle. If you take a standard ruler and hold it verticle about 18 inches from your eyes, you can see right through it. That is you can see everything in the background with the ruler 'blocking' your view. However, if you turn it horizontal the ruler blocks your view. So the overhead part of the roll bar does block our view on a slider but the verticle parts not so much. Probably why I never really noticed the roll bar being in my way vision wise.

I just did some more tests, if the verticle obstruction is wider than the spacing of your eyes, you can not see through it. If it is smaller than the spacing of your eyes (2 5/8 inch for me) you can 'see' through it.
 
I don't understand how biplanes are able to fly around in the sky and not run everyone over with their obstruction :)
 
You Got that Right!

I don't understand how biplanes are able to fly around in the sky and not run everyone over with their obstruction :)
Or Cessnas, or Pipers or Beeches or DC3s or Mustangs or Corsairs or P38s or F4 Phantoms or...........................:eek:

33bmh4m.jpg
 
Missed the point

Or Cessnas, or Pipers or Beeches or DC3s or Mustangs or Corsairs or P38s or F4 Phantoms or..........

The average car has more visibility blocked than a slider canopy.

Its about the experience of flying without a barrier infront of you.

Its an expereince. Hence why some of you with fantasies of being fighter pilots have the experience of being in a fighter cockpit and that is more important to you than anything else.

For some of you like Louise, its about being free as a bird so ANY obstruction defeates that mental state.

Some like to be in the machine and some like to be in the sky and that is what I think drives this argument.

No ruler, eye distance, head bobing, airplane pictures are going to out do either the bird or fighter pilot fantasy.
 
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Some like to be in the machine and some like to be in the sky and that is what I think drives this argument.[/QUOTE]


I like the slider because I can do both in it, and I do.
 
If you take a picture it is the same as looking with one eye, so yes it is blocked in all views. But since we have two eyes, the verticle parts don't block the view.

Each eye has a blind spot that you never see because one eye compensates for the other in that location. Now block one eye and the remaining eye will have a blind spot that will hide an aircraft.
 
I could see how you would not understand the visibility of a tilt up. You really need to experience it to understand. Kinda like riding HWY 70 through Utah on a motorcycle without a helmet compared to sitting in a car. You will still get there........ but you missed so much.

It takes me about three minutes to clean and polish my canopy........ even a few bug splats take away from the experience.

It's all Van's fault!
 
Interesting thread

I've been involved in the RV World about 10 years. My first year at Oshkosh I was evaluating the models. I was pretty set on a 7 but was undecided on the canopy. My completely unscientific survey showed a ratio of 4 to 1 in favor of Sliders for the 6, 7 and 9 series.

Shortly after, I found a project in progress and it was a tip up. I love it and found access to the some stuff nice but wasn't a cure all. I was dead set against access panels. I think they are ugly and present their own problems.

Over the years the ratio of Slider to Tip ups has closed slightly. Still favors the sliders. I bought a second project in progress, a 7. This time it is a slider. I have flown behind both and have found the visibility difference minimal. Sure the roll bar creates a small area of blockage but certainly nothing to call it dangerous or a major inconvenience.

Regarding the panel. The new 7 is using a composite panel with modular construction. Also using the Approach Systems wiring hub to minimize potential harness issues. Wiring behind there will be minimal. The sub panel has been skeletonized and reinforced with doublers. Removing either EFIS screen will give access to virtually everything. Very nice!!!

The cool factor. Well, they are RV's, they are all cool!!!!!
 
I had a tip over on my Extra. Unrestricted visibility is nice, but buying a new canopy (or getting the money minus deductible from the insurance co.) for $18,000 after it blew open and smashed on the wing was not so nice.

It was my fault, and I know it's not near that much to replace canopy on an RV, but you are going to have some downtime if you do have to replace it. Given my experience I would probably be extra careful with a tip up if I had one, but why take the chance, or give myself the added worry? The visibility restriction from the roll bar in the slider is very, very slight, and I will never worry about losing the canopy. Easy decision for me.

Still haven't heard how many tip ups have been damaged by wind or prop blasts, is there any info on this? Are my worries groundless?:)
 
Still haven't heard how many tip ups have been damaged by wind or prop blasts, is there any info on this? Are my worries groundless?:)

Been around RVs since before the original -6 tip-up and I personally know of only one. I repaired it for a customer for less than $100. And this was one of the original canopies without the struts. I've been flying mine since 1993 without a problem. Still don't have struts. I don't like them!
 
My opinion for those just frozen with fear that they'll make the wrong decision on a tip-up: Get out your checkbook, go to your local flight school, and spend ten hours bombing around in a nicely appointed (G1000) Diamond DA40 or similar. That is what I did, and never looked back. The nice side effect is being well armed during your build against all those people that talk about how hot you're going to be hot... and all the other "reasons" why not to build what you want. Our first was a tip-up, with almost 1000hrs, not a moment of regret or fear. The next one is a tip-over and ready for a finish kit next month. When this one is done, the next one is already entering the thought process, and it will be a tip-out :).

Tip-up, Tip-over, Tip-out!
 
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My opinion for those just frozen with fear that they'll make the wrong decision on a tip-up: Get out your checkbook, go to your local flight school, and spend ten hours bombing around in a nicely appointed (G1000) Diamond DA40 or similar. That is what I did, and never looked back.

I spent my check book for some P-51D and Marchetti SF260 time. Both sliders.........and I was convinced! :D
 
This is my point

I spent my check book for some P-51D and Marchetti SF260 time. Both sliders.........and I was convinced! :D

and spend ten hours bombing around in a nicely appointed (G1000) Diamond DA40

This is my point, notice the fighter pilot and notice the sight seer.

They are two different worlds. One is an about seeing the Machine, seeing the bolts and rivets and looking out to see if the bomb racks are still loaded ....the other is about total clarity, not just visibility, its about feeling like your not even in the aircraft. Its about seeing the outside but also its about not seeing the inside.

ANY conversation about visibility misses the point. Its more about what you don't see than what you see, and vice versa for the slider.
 
This is my point, notice the fighter pilot and notice the sight seer.

They are two different worlds. One is an about seeing the Machine, seeing the bolts and rivets and looking out to see if the bomb racks are still loaded ....the other is about total clarity, not just visibility, its about feeling like your not even in the aircraft. Its about seeing the outside but also its about not seeing the inside.

ANY conversation about visibility misses the point. Its more about what you don't see than what you see, and vice versa for the slider.

But..............I'm a sight seer too. It's the whole reason I built a plane. All of the great views of the western USA are only hours away........in a slider...:)
 
Still haven't heard how many tip ups have been damaged by wind or prop blasts, is there any info on this? Are my worries groundless?:)

You may reasons for not going with a tip-up but your worries are groundless.
 
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You may reasons for not going with a tip-up but your worries are groundless.

Apparently the RV's have a much better record than I expected. Both the Pitts S2B and the Extra 300 have not so stellar records with their tip overs.

Ah well, I don't regret my decision!:)

And I certainly won't mind being seen in public associating with you tip-up drivers! :rolleyes:;)
 
A different perspective from a fighter Wizzo

I have 2000 hours in F-4E, F, and G Phantoms, all back-seat time. My first 1200 of it was in the pit of the F-4G Wild Weasel. The Weasel's back seat instrument panel TOTALLY blocks all forward visibility, so much so that a pilots' instrument/qualification checkride could NEVER be flown as a single-ship sortie. Reason: A standards/evaluations flight examiner (SEFE) pilot in his back seat could not look forward to determine whether the evaluatee's instrument approach had arrived to a landable solution, ie, he couldn't see the runway. Therefore, F-4G Wild Weasel pilots' instrument checkrides ALWAYS required a SEFE chase.

The F-4E and -F fighter/bomber versions had a small gap in the backseater's instrument cluster's left and right side. You could see forward just enough to land the plane. In 1995 when I transitioned to these varients, I could not believe how MUCH visibility I had (always count your small blessings, eh?).

In 2010, when Joe Blank took me up in the Mothership's -7A (a tip-up)...well, they had me at "hello." I had NEVER enjoyed flying like I did that day. Sure I think I'd look pretty darned cool with a slider, arm hanging out on the rail, etc. But flying that tip-up with ZERO obstructions to my visibility...what pure joy. And I'm building for the JOY OF FLIGHT.

I don't scoff the slider, not at all. But mark my name under the "Tip-Up" column. :cool:

My 0.015714 Azerbaijani New Manats (or 2 cents US) :D
 
You may reasons for not going with a tip-up but your worries are groundless.

Apparently the RV's have a much better record than I expected. Both the Pitts S2B and the Extra 300 have not so stellar records with their tip overs.

Ah well, I don't regret my decision!:)

And I certainly won't mind being seen in public associating with you tip-up drivers! :rolleyes:;)

I should have added my ground rules for avoiding putting my tip up canopy at risk of wind or prop damage.

I never walk away from my car with the door wide open (that would be silly, somebody might run into it.......). Likewise, I never walk away from my RV-6 on the ramp with the canopy raised. Leaving it propped open in the taxi position is OK but never wide open. This rule has served me well in over twelve years of enjoyable tip up flying.
 
access panels

There is much discussion of sealing access panels on the top of the forward skin. Pro-seal seams to be the suggested sealant/gasket, formed in place. Has anyone sealed with RTV? What should the thickness be for a watertight seal?
 
Tip it in

Someone here mentioned a tip up 6 without the struts. I am a new 6 owner and not a builder so lots of questions.

One question is if the tip ups were originally designed without the struts, how did/do you get in and out?

Mine has the struts on it. Seems quite nice for getting in and out while on the ground, but seems like it will keep the canopy on tight if you wanted to egress in flight due to some unfortunate event, fire/failure etc.
 
Someone here mentioned a tip up 6 without the struts. I am a new 6 owner and not a builder so lots of questions.

One question is if the tip ups were originally designed without the struts, how did/do you get in and out?

Mine has the struts on it. Seems quite nice for getting in and out while on the ground, but seems like it will keep the canopy on tight if you wanted to egress in flight due to some unfortunate event, fire/failure etc.

The oldest RV-6's had a prop rod instead of struts.
 
Someone here mentioned a tip up 6 without the struts. I am a new 6 owner and not a builder so lots of questions.
One question is if the tip ups were originally designed without the struts, how did/do you get in and out?
Mine has the struts on it. Seems quite nice for getting in and out while on the ground, but seems like it will keep the canopy on tight if you wanted to egress in flight due to some unfortunate event, fire/failure etc.

Actually it was much easier to get in and out of. The prop-rod is from the panel, so it's not at all in the way.
I added a second prop-rod to the right side for when the wind is stronger. The neat thing about the prop-rods is that when the canopy is closed, they are not connected so the canopy can be jettisoned easily.
 
Actually it was much easier to get in and out of. The prop-rod is from the panel, so it's not at all in the way.
I added a second prop-rod to the right side for when the wind is stronger. The neat thing about the prop-rods is that when the canopy is closed, they are not connected so the canopy can be jettisoned easily.

That sounds like a pretty good setup. I hope to find one locally I can look at and see if maybe I can go that route also.
 
The neat thing about the prop-rods is that when the canopy is closed, they are not connected so the canopy can be jettisoned easily.
Sigh. The struts are removable with a sharp tug. If the canopy is being jettisoned, the aerodynamic loads will overpower the struts in a heartbeat.

The larger problem is that with the switch to struts, the arms that reach under the forward skin ahead of he canopy are longer and curved and may not be able to find their way out of the fuselage as easily as the older, shorter, straight arms.
 
This is my point, notice the fighter pilot and notice the sight seer.

They are two different worlds. One is an about seeing the Machine, seeing the bolts and rivets and looking out to see if the bomb racks are still loaded ....the other is about total clarity, not just visibility, its about feeling like your not even in the aircraft. Its about seeing the outside but also its about not seeing the inside.

ANY conversation about visibility misses the point. Its more about what you don't see than what you see, and vice versa for the slider.

F-16 has no canopy bow. Best of both worlds?
 
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