rv8pilotpaul
Active Member
Where is it? I have all the kits now and it's not included! Are we supposed to buy WD-620-PC from Van's?
Van's Air Force
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Canopy Release Handle
- Thread starter rv8pilotpaul
- Start date
I think it is part of the avionics kit supplement (instrument panel sections, release handle, etc.)
Is there any update to this as to what we are supposed to do to get the proper release handle? I have a temporary pushrod sticking out from my panel. Pretty much everything else is done inside the cabin now. Just have to hook up my engine monitor probes and the engine install is done.
I see a reference above to Landing Lights, wiring harness, and other stuff...but that's all stuff I don't need. Everything is already done.
So if there is indeed a part number for this release handle, and a plans page for it, I'd love to just get it ordered and get it done. Otherwise I guess I'll just finish it up and remove the stub, plug the hole, and fly it without.
On a side note, I am going thru the plans for steps that I've delayed along the way. One of them was the canopy hinge covers, because it says you shouldn't do them until the canopy is complete. After reading it through again it appears that once you do those hinge covers, the canopy is permanent. (i.e. you can't remove it even for maintenance).
Am I understanding this correctly? The reason I have concerns with that is that my garage is only a 7' ceiling, so if I install the canopy permanently along with the cover plates, I can't enter the cockpit again without rolling it outside...and can't work outside on it in the rain. So I want to delay that step until the week before I paint it (hopefully in the next month) if that's true.
If anyone has a part number on the canopy release handle, let me know and I'll get it ordered.
I see a reference above to Landing Lights, wiring harness, and other stuff...but that's all stuff I don't need. Everything is already done.
So if there is indeed a part number for this release handle, and a plans page for it, I'd love to just get it ordered and get it done. Otherwise I guess I'll just finish it up and remove the stub, plug the hole, and fly it without.
On a side note, I am going thru the plans for steps that I've delayed along the way. One of them was the canopy hinge covers, because it says you shouldn't do them until the canopy is complete. After reading it through again it appears that once you do those hinge covers, the canopy is permanent. (i.e. you can't remove it even for maintenance).
Am I understanding this correctly? The reason I have concerns with that is that my garage is only a 7' ceiling, so if I install the canopy permanently along with the cover plates, I can't enter the cockpit again without rolling it outside...and can't work outside on it in the rain. So I want to delay that step until the week before I paint it (hopefully in the next month) if that's true.
If anyone has a part number on the canopy release handle, let me know and I'll get it ordered.
No you are not understanding correctly.
I suggest you e-mail or call Van's. Someone there should be able to help.
To circle back on this, I did call builders support today and talked to Gus.
As it turns out, there maybe isn't really any information yet or parts available for the canopy jettison handle and mechanism. It sounds like it was one of the things designed in a while back and never really got completed. So there wasn't anything I could order today for that. I guess one of the factory planes has it, one doesn't, and Mitch's has some other release mechanism to use with his panel, because when planning for the release they didn't account for how much stack space most panels will have.
So it may or may not be complete yet. He said he'd check into it for me more.
Then regarding the canopy being removable, it really is those hinge covers that cause the issue there. Apparently they are fairly finicky and easy to wreck. So, if you ever do pull them, you run the risk of scratching your paint or breaking the pieces. Then, at that point, you'd have to re-create new ones, and paint them to match, and then get them re-inserted without scratching everything. So the short answer is, sure, you can remove the canopy from the plane after it's painted and complete, but it's troublesome enough that you may not be satisfied with how the process goes...so maybe best just to consider it permanent once it's on there.
So unless something changes, I wasn't as far off as it seemed.
At this point I'm going to try a two prong approach. I'm going to fab a canopy release handle out of aluminum rod if possible, and if I can't make it strong enough, I'm going to plug the hole in the panel with a plastic cap plug, and then just build some sort of bracket on the sub panel to create a locked down canopy release so it can't be accidentally tripped, but perhaps can be used if needed some day for maintenance. I just have to figure out how to bail with the chute then, without a full jettison. Maybe just an escape hammer for a few blows?
As it turns out, there maybe isn't really any information yet or parts available for the canopy jettison handle and mechanism. It sounds like it was one of the things designed in a while back and never really got completed. So there wasn't anything I could order today for that. I guess one of the factory planes has it, one doesn't, and Mitch's has some other release mechanism to use with his panel, because when planning for the release they didn't account for how much stack space most panels will have.
So it may or may not be complete yet. He said he'd check into it for me more.
Then regarding the canopy being removable, it really is those hinge covers that cause the issue there. Apparently they are fairly finicky and easy to wreck. So, if you ever do pull them, you run the risk of scratching your paint or breaking the pieces. Then, at that point, you'd have to re-create new ones, and paint them to match, and then get them re-inserted without scratching everything. So the short answer is, sure, you can remove the canopy from the plane after it's painted and complete, but it's troublesome enough that you may not be satisfied with how the process goes...so maybe best just to consider it permanent once it's on there.
So unless something changes, I wasn't as far off as it seemed.
At this point I'm going to try a two prong approach. I'm going to fab a canopy release handle out of aluminum rod if possible, and if I can't make it strong enough, I'm going to plug the hole in the panel with a plastic cap plug, and then just build some sort of bracket on the sub panel to create a locked down canopy release so it can't be accidentally tripped, but perhaps can be used if needed some day for maintenance. I just have to figure out how to bail with the chute then, without a full jettison. Maybe just an escape hammer for a few blows?
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Canopy clips
I safety wired mine because you are right, it will destroy the clips, ask me how I know. After I "permanently" attached the canopy, I had to take it off, which originally I thought, no big deal. WRONG. It destroyed the little tabs when the canopy popped up, so I had to fabricate two more. At that point, as Tim said, removing the canopy for maintenance is not an option because it will ruin the clips and the paint will never match. I didn't put the handle through the panel anyway because I don't think I'll ever jettison the canopy.
I safety wired mine because you are right, it will destroy the clips, ask me how I know. After I "permanently" attached the canopy, I had to take it off, which originally I thought, no big deal. WRONG. It destroyed the little tabs when the canopy popped up, so I had to fabricate two more. At that point, as Tim said, removing the canopy for maintenance is not an option because it will ruin the clips and the paint will never match. I didn't put the handle through the panel anyway because I don't think I'll ever jettison the canopy.
I had my clips all painted, and forgot where I left them. I had a small fire going and decided to burn a few boxes. As I thru the boxes in the fire I heard a faint cling. What that you ask , one of the small clips. I immediately kicked the boxes out of the fire and never saw a trace of the second one. One of the boxes was what I had painted them on and I must never removed them from the box.
All this to make one point, Van's supplied me with spares of both the small cover and of the small clips. They must have known I was a fire bug. They must have thought I was a bigger bug because I still have more spares.
Til now I thought they provided everyone with spares. You guy's don't burn boxes? or what.
All this to make one point, Van's supplied me with spares of both the small cover and of the small clips. They must have known I was a fire bug. They must have thought I was a bigger bug because I still have more spares.
Til now I thought they provided everyone with spares. You guy's don't burn boxes? or what.
To each his own I guess....
The canopys have been off both of the prototypes numerous times with no ill effects (BTW, both prototypes do have the complete release system). The trigear does show some signs of wear and tear on the paint because it was updated from an earlier design hinge cover.
The key is developing an understanding of how they work and painting them properly (once painted, excess can be removed from the edges with a razor blade), and properly masking the opening while painting the fuselage.
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The covers did exactly what they were intended to do... pop off if the canopy is jettisoned.
To remove the canopy without popping the covers, you have to remove them by reversing the process you used to install them.
I learn something new every day, thankfully. When I actually popped the canopy, I wasn't thinking about the little covers and them coming off. My bad. Thanks Scott.
The past couple days I did a mock up of the canopy handle. I'm guessing by the part number quoted in the thread that Van's may use a welded steel part. I decided to mock it up with 3/8" Aluminum rod for now. I got a 4' piece on Amazon for under $15 with prime. I didn't want to do any welding at this point, because I wasn't sure how the handle would look or work with the spring that was included in the kit.
I drilled and tapped one end of the rod, and cut the other end with the slot to pin onto the canopy release arm. I found a couple of washers...one to go against the panel so the spring doesn't wear on the panel, and one to go around the rod with a pin to hold the washer in just the right position so the canopy release pushrod would have just the smallest bit of tension on it when the pins are fully engaged. I then made a crude bar of aluminum that I screwed onto the handle for the "T". Now I had something I could quick test.
I think it's an OK system, but I found that the spring takes a LOT of pull to release the pins all the way. I had the wife do it and she could barely pull it far enough. (Not that I expect her to get into aerobatics, without me in the plane, and then mess up and decide to bail out.
) So the spring is pretty heavy. All in all, it works. But, to have a handle that you could actually grab with your hand, the T-handle will probably have to stick out at least 1/2" if not a little more, from the panel. The factory handle I have a pic of below shows the gap. (Although I don't see their spring anywhere on it)
The short of it is, there are limited times I would probably want to have the handle available, and most of the time I'll be happy to have nothing there at all. So I've basically come to the conclusion that for me, the best situation will be if I can have a permanent pushrod, but a removable handle portion.
That way if I'm going on flights where I will have the chute and do aerobatics, I just have to screw on the external handle. Otherwise I will just have a capped hole on the face of the instrument panel. It seems like a good way to go to me, and it's one less part to buy. Now I just have to fab the permanent one, which I can do sometime after the first flight if I want.
So there was actually a benefit to not getting the part with the kit...it allowed me to think it through a bit and do it in a way I think will work best for me in the end. When I finally do have a final part, I'll try to get an updated pic with measurements.
The best pic I have from OSH is probably this one, showing one of the factory handles:
I drilled and tapped one end of the rod, and cut the other end with the slot to pin onto the canopy release arm. I found a couple of washers...one to go against the panel so the spring doesn't wear on the panel, and one to go around the rod with a pin to hold the washer in just the right position so the canopy release pushrod would have just the smallest bit of tension on it when the pins are fully engaged. I then made a crude bar of aluminum that I screwed onto the handle for the "T". Now I had something I could quick test.
I think it's an OK system, but I found that the spring takes a LOT of pull to release the pins all the way. I had the wife do it and she could barely pull it far enough. (Not that I expect her to get into aerobatics, without me in the plane, and then mess up and decide to bail out.
) So the spring is pretty heavy. All in all, it works. But, to have a handle that you could actually grab with your hand, the T-handle will probably have to stick out at least 1/2" if not a little more, from the panel. The factory handle I have a pic of below shows the gap. (Although I don't see their spring anywhere on it)The short of it is, there are limited times I would probably want to have the handle available, and most of the time I'll be happy to have nothing there at all. So I've basically come to the conclusion that for me, the best situation will be if I can have a permanent pushrod, but a removable handle portion.
That way if I'm going on flights where I will have the chute and do aerobatics, I just have to screw on the external handle. Otherwise I will just have a capped hole on the face of the instrument panel. It seems like a good way to go to me, and it's one less part to buy. Now I just have to fab the permanent one, which I can do sometime after the first flight if I want.
So there was actually a benefit to not getting the part with the kit...it allowed me to think it through a bit and do it in a way I think will work best for me in the end. When I finally do have a final part, I'll try to get an updated pic with measurements.
The best pic I have from OSH is probably this one, showing one of the factory handles:
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Actually, after the last flight to the Cayman Islands, I did think of that when thinking of this canopy release too. My plan for the RV-14 is to always fly with one of those emergency hammer/seat belt cutters in the plane:
http://www.amazon.com/IPOW-Antiskid...694944&sr=8-2&keywords=emergency+glass+hammer
I've heard of people in RV's flipping on their back and being trapped by the canopy before. It may not release then with the lever either, but that's where the hammer will get you out. I haven't bought one yet...but I suppose it's probably as good a time as any now. I'm sure there are plenty of places I can mount it to keep it handy and yet secure.
I'd probably install the handle for any over-water flights anyway, since we seem to do them at least once a year.
http://www.amazon.com/IPOW-Antiskid...694944&sr=8-2&keywords=emergency+glass+hammer
I've heard of people in RV's flipping on their back and being trapped by the canopy before. It may not release then with the lever either, but that's where the hammer will get you out. I haven't bought one yet...but I suppose it's probably as good a time as any now. I'm sure there are plenty of places I can mount it to keep it handy and yet secure.
I'd probably install the handle for any over-water flights anyway, since we seem to do them at least once a year.
Circling back to the canopy jettison and release, I did have a less than thrilling experience with the cover plates that cover the hinge areas on the front upper deck this weekend.
My Jettison handle was basically at the limit of being workable with the included spring. It may or may not retract the pins enough to do the job, if you had the spring pinned just shy of it's full normal length. I wanted to make sure that the handle could be pulled out far enough to definitely retract the pins. This meant stretching the spring a little, and drilling a new hole in the arm to pin it further forward. Do do this, I needed to remove the pushrod.
This is a very hard to reach area, so I thought I would make it easier. I got 2 helpers. I opened the canopy fully and told them to hold it in position while I pulled the pushrod, because anything that caused the canopy to lift would pop those 2 cover plates and potentially crack the paint. They just needed to hold it long enough for me to remove the rod and push the lever back to locking position. Then do it one more time when re-installing the lever.
Unfortunately, the canopy still moved ever so slightly. Not really even visibly from my perspective, and I could hear the paint crack. Once I was done, I closed the canopy and sure enough the paint was cracked around both of the cover plates. And, the tabs under them were bent enough that they no longer wanted to lay flat. To add more insult to the injury, the front canopy seal now wanted to ride up on the cover plate because it wasn't staying flat. So my seal started to migrate outwards.
I tried to use some green loctite just because it was a wicking formula, and get the parts to stay flat again, but no luck. I may try super glue yet.
Beyond that, the only way to ever have it even close to the way it was, is to carefully sand and file and make a nice border after removing the plates, then make new ones, prime paint and clear coat them, and then try to re-install them with some sealant.
The moral of the story is, first, those cover plates stink. But, if you ever have to work on that mechanism, leave the canopy fully latched and hire a midget to get under your panel and pull the rod mechanism apart.
At least now I will know I can jettison the canopy if I need to. Time to get some chutes.
My Jettison handle was basically at the limit of being workable with the included spring. It may or may not retract the pins enough to do the job, if you had the spring pinned just shy of it's full normal length. I wanted to make sure that the handle could be pulled out far enough to definitely retract the pins. This meant stretching the spring a little, and drilling a new hole in the arm to pin it further forward. Do do this, I needed to remove the pushrod.
This is a very hard to reach area, so I thought I would make it easier. I got 2 helpers. I opened the canopy fully and told them to hold it in position while I pulled the pushrod, because anything that caused the canopy to lift would pop those 2 cover plates and potentially crack the paint. They just needed to hold it long enough for me to remove the rod and push the lever back to locking position. Then do it one more time when re-installing the lever.
Unfortunately, the canopy still moved ever so slightly. Not really even visibly from my perspective, and I could hear the paint crack. Once I was done, I closed the canopy and sure enough the paint was cracked around both of the cover plates. And, the tabs under them were bent enough that they no longer wanted to lay flat. To add more insult to the injury, the front canopy seal now wanted to ride up on the cover plate because it wasn't staying flat. So my seal started to migrate outwards.
I tried to use some green loctite just because it was a wicking formula, and get the parts to stay flat again, but no luck. I may try super glue yet.
Beyond that, the only way to ever have it even close to the way it was, is to carefully sand and file and make a nice border after removing the plates, then make new ones, prime paint and clear coat them, and then try to re-install them with some sealant.
The moral of the story is, first, those cover plates stink. But, if you ever have to work on that mechanism, leave the canopy fully latched and hire a midget to get under your panel and pull the rod mechanism apart.
At least now I will know I can jettison the canopy if I need to. Time to get some chutes.
Regardless what you do, I don't think it is possible to remove the canopy without first removing the cover plates. It was designed this way.
That is why they were also designed with a removal ability and the manual details how to do it.
The cover plates are not intended to be painted over.
That is why they were also designed with a removal ability and the manual details how to do it.
The cover plates are not intended to be painted over.
