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Dynon AOA operations in RV-8A?

9

9erDriver

Well Known Member
I know that some RV pilots use AOA as the primary instrument when landing, and I would like to give it a try. Looking for some feedback from experienced Dynon AOA users flying RV8 or 8A's. Specifically:

When in the pattern do you transition from airspeed to AOA?
What is the ideal visual on the color bar you are looking for on final?
How did you configure the audio?

I fly an RV8A with fixed pitch prop (if that matters), Dynon D10A with heated Dynon AOA pitot. I normally come over the fence at 70 KIAS.

thanks -steve
 
I find the Dynon AOA indication very effective - but rarely if ever look at the indication itself. I find myself looking out the window instead of the panel - but the AOA audio indication is right on the money.

Unless you are way slow, or doing a carrier landing with the nose pointed up in the sky and a lot of power on, the AOA will not come into play until right before touchdown. If you are 70 knots over the fence this applies to you.

My son-in-law is an F-18 jockey and I'm spending a lot of time with him trying to break the "fly the plane into the deck while adding power" habit - the landing gear has taken a beating.

The Dynon audio is fed to the un-switched audio input on the audio panel. This is the same SkyView audio output for all SkyView audio alarms and notifications. I assume this would be similar for the D10A.

Carl
 
Need better annunciator

I keep hoping that Dynon will come out with an easy to read AOA annunciator that I could mount on the glare shield.

I find the AOA indicator on the display too small and fiddily to quickly read. I do not want to be looking at the panel when landing!

Some pilots say that they go by the tone but I find that I tend to tune it out because on my aircraft it comes on at about 90 knots, usually on turning base.

In its present configuration I find my AOA to be of limited use.
 
Ron RV8 said:
I keep hoping that Dynon will come out with an easy to read AOA annunciator that I could mount on the glare shield.

I find the AOA indicator on the display too small and fiddily to quickly read. I do not want to be looking at the panel when landing!

Some pilots say that they go by the tone but I find that I tend to tune it out because on my aircraft it comes on at about 90 knots, usually on turning base.

In its present configuration I find my AOA to be of limited use.
Click to expand...

I am several months from flying but planning to use both the Dynon AOA with heated pitot and the AFS Sport AOA - mainly because the right wing already had it installed when I purchased the 80% done 80% to go kit. The rest of the kit was purchased here from another that removed it from his plane.

I plan to compare both and see which I like best - as well as see which is more accurate for various configurations.
 
I have suggested to Dynon on their forum, that they change the display to enlarge the AOA indicator (widget) at a certain airspeed that can be set by you. The display would enlarge it to the same size as the airspeed tape and right alongside it.

I would have the display switch to the enlarged widget at 90 knots for my -10, just right for entering the pattern or the Tango line at Oshkosh.
 
Last edited:
Carl Froehlich said:
I find the Dynon AOA indication very effective - but rarely if ever look at the indication itself. I find myself looking out the window instead of the panel - but the AOA audio indication is right on the money.

Unless you are way slow, or doing a carrier landing with the nose pointed up in the sky and a lot of power on, the AOA will not come into play until right before touchdown. If you are 70 knots over the fence this applies to you.

My son-in-law is an F-18 jockey and I'm spending a lot of time with him trying to break the "fly the plane into the deck while adding power" habit - the landing gear has taken a beating.

The Dynon audio is fed to the un-switched audio input on the audio panel. This is the same SkyView audio output for all SkyView audio alarms and notifications. I assume this would be similar for the D10A.

Carl
Click to expand...


Steve,

I have the same Dynon configuration as you except my airplane is the 7A. I have been using the Dynon AOA for several years, and as Carl has said, it's very effective and the audio is right on target. I never transition from airspeed to AOA, I use AOA as a guide to confirm what I see out the window, what I feel, and what the ASI indicates. With no special wind or weather factors, my target for over the fence is between 70 and 65 knots... 85 on downwind, 75 base, then to 70 on final and down to a stable 65 over the fence. The AOA is visually "consulted" more as I'm on final than anywhere else in the pattern, to confirm. Once over the fence, I rarely look at the AOA, maybe just a glance, my landing becomes 100% visual out the window and ideally the AOA audio starts "chirping" slowly as i settle into ground effect and the chirping gets more frantic just as my tires contact the runway...

Once you set-up the AOA audio correctly, (per Dynon's instructions while flying to stalls in different configurations) you will then really enjoy using AOA. The color bars will show less and less green as you get closer to the fence, but because I'm not looking at the AOA when I get beyond the fence, I don't know how far into the amber I get. I'm looking out the window and listening for the audio at that point.

Good luck.

Victor
 
Ron RV8 said:
Some pilots say that they go by the tone but I find that I tend to tune it out because on my aircraft it comes on at about 90 knots, usually on turning base.
Click to expand...

You can adjust when the audio starts. Having it come on at 90 knots is really high- an RV-8 can pull at over 3G's at 90 knots. This is so high it sounds like the calibration isn't very representative of your plane.

In my plane (not an RV) which stalls at 42 indicated, the AOA starts at about 47 indicated. The only time it ever goes off is in the flare or with some wind shear. I'd expect it to start at about 54 knots in an RV-8.
 
audio threshold?

where are we setting the audio threshold, top of red? top of yellow?

thanks -steve

vasrv7a said:
Steve,

I have the same Dynon configuration as you except my airplane is the 7A. I have been using the Dynon AOA for several years, and as Carl has said, it's very effective and the audio is right on target. I never transition from airspeed to AOA, I use AOA as a guide to confirm what I see out the window, what I feel, and what the ASI indicates. With no special wind or weather factors, my target for over the fence is between 70 and 65 knots... 85 on downwind, 75 base, then to 70 on final and down to a stable 65 over the fence. The AOA is visually "consulted" more as I'm on final than anywhere else in the pattern, to confirm. Once over the fence, I rarely look at the AOA, maybe just a glance, my landing becomes 100% visual out the window and ideally the AOA audio starts "chirping" slowly as i settle into ground effect and the chirping gets more frantic just as my tires contact the runway...

Once you set-up the AOA audio correctly, (per Dynon's instructions while flying to stalls in different configurations) you will then really enjoy using AOA. The color bars will show less and less green as you get closer to the fence, but because I'm not looking at the AOA when I get beyond the fence, I don't know how far into the amber I get. I'm looking out the window and listening for the audio at that point.

Good luck.

Victor
Click to expand...
 
AOA

4 green lights (bottom 4) means your are on the bug when at correct AS
use on short final works great ( I have the AFS sport model) in my RV8A
 
Ron RV8 said:
I keep hoping that Dynon will come out with an easy to read AOA annunciator that I could mount on the glare shield.

I find the AOA indicator on the display too small and fiddily to quickly read. I do not want to be looking at the panel when landing!

Some pilots say that they go by the tone but I find that I tend to tune it out because on my aircraft it comes on at about 90 knots, usually on turning base.

In its present configuration I find my AOA to be of limited use.
Click to expand...

Hi Ron.
Try the haptic stick shaker from Makerplane. It provides progressive indication of Dynon AoA on the stick. I developed a glareshield display for Dynon AoA about 10 years ago, but discontinued it because, for the average pilot, it did not provide fool-proof operation. VFR pilots should be looking out the window on short final!

Instead, I developed the haptic stick shaker. It is better IMHO.

The FAA is currently performing a scientific analysis of training outcomes using various safety enhancements in the cockpit (including, I presume, visual AoA and haptic AoA). In a weird act of convergence, they have purchased control-loading flight yoke actuators from my 'other' company to assist in this analysis.

I presume that will be testing visual, audio and haptic indications and determine the right technology and training regimens to effectively use this selected technology.

I think I know what the outcome of this testing will show, however, I am unwilling to publically predict it.
 
9erDriver said:
When in the pattern do you transition from airspeed to AOA?
What is the ideal visual on the color bar you are looking for on final?
How did you configure the audio?
Click to expand...

I calibrated my AOA per the Dynon manual. Stall at 54 knots matches the red AOA indication spot on and the audio bitchin' Betty stall warning.
Having said that, this is NOT in any way the same in operation to a Navy AOA indicator where "on speed" is an amber donut. If you fly your -8 with an amber indication, IMHO you will be too slow and well below 1.3Vs. I do not fly my -8 with AOA only but I do cross check it at all times with my A/S indicator. If I had an AOA caret and donut indicator on the glare shield it would be a different story and my scan would revert to meatball (VASI / PAPI), line up, AOA.
Downwind at 90 knots 4 green bars. Base at 75 knots, 3 green bars. Final at 65 knots, 2 green bars. Short field landing at 60 knots, 1 green bar.
Wind variations will bump you into the yellow bands.
The advantage you gain with AOA is that it does not care wether you are at light solo weight or at max gross weight. AOA indications will be the same regardless of your weight even though you will be flying faster at the higher weights.
 
9erDriver said:
where are we setting the audio threshold, top of red? top of yellow?

thanks -steve
Click to expand...


Steve,

I don't recall setting a speed for when the audio begins to chrip... There might be a setting for that, however I used what I thought were the complete setup instructions and don't remember selecting an initial speed, but have found that the audio (as set up) is ideal for my 7A...

Victor
 
vasrv7a said:
Steve,

I don't recall setting a speed for when the audio begins to chrip... There might be a setting for that, however I used what I thought were the complete setup instructions and don't remember selecting an initial speed, but have found that the audio (as set up) is ideal for my 7A...

Victor
Click to expand...

Correct. Do the stall calibration as outlined in the install manual and the audio alert sets itself. I found it to be exactly correct in the RV-10.

Carl
 
What Carl said

I have the FightDEK 180 with the AOA active and calibrated per the manual. Fly with your eye's outside the plane and listen, the audio is dead nuts on (an industry term). Works great but I rarely look at it.
 
dynonsupport said:
You can adjust when the audio starts. Having it come on at 90 knots is really high- an RV-8 can pull at over 3G's at 90 knots. This is so high it sounds like the calibration isn't very representative of your plane.
Click to expand...

I have gone through the calibration procedure about 3 times with the same result, tone comes on at about 90 kts.

How do you adjust when the audio starts?
 
Ron RV8 said:
I have gone through the calibration procedure about 3 times with the same result, tone comes on at about 90 kts.

How do you adjust when the audio starts?
Click to expand...

I just did this on our Tundra, and had to burrow down a couple of menu levels where you can select how far into the yellow AoA band you want the tones to start. Sorry - can't rememebr what menu path tight now.
 
AOA display

Seems like a stick shaker or a HUD display is what lies in the future.
The majority of pilots are staring at asphalt when ten feet up... IFR or VFR or helicopters. The is just no way around that reality.
 
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