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Anyone want to rehash oil filters?

Tram

Well Known Member
So, I'm planning on an oil change next week and I'm ordering some parts. Oil, filter, gaskets, run of the mill stuff and I've started looking at filters..

I've always run a Champion CH48110-1 on our O-320B2B.

But, I'm slightly considering a Tempest or a Napa Gold 1515..

Has anyone switched to the Tempest from a Champion and regretted it yet?

Anyone here go from the Champion to the 1515 and regret it?

I'm not so much looking for the "savings" of the 1515, a $25 filter a couple times a year isn't going to crush me, but paying for it "because airplane" is a principle thing for me.
 
Jim Winings and myself were the original RV guys that discovered the 1515 filter for use on a Lycoming. We studied all the specs and features, did our own tests, and spread the word after a few years of using them successfully. Saving money on the cost is a minor factor. The major benefit is being able to locally source them on a Saturday afternoon when you discover that you thought you had one on the shelf but didn't. That said I use them on all of the experimental aircraft I maintain and I've had zero problems.
 
Bob, could you explain how you dealt with the nipple on the Champ filter and no nipple on the 1515 filter. Did you install the nipple in the filter adapter and just spin the 1515 filter on and off like on a car, or did you screw the nipple into the filter each time?

Did you get a nipple from Napa Auto parts, or did you use the nipple from the Champ filter?
 
Bob, could you explain how you dealt with the nipple on the Champ filter and no nipple on the 1515 filter. Did you install the nipple in the filter adapter and just spin the 1515 filter on and off like on a car, or did you screw the nipple into the filter each time?

Did you get a nipple from Napa Auto parts, or did you use the nipple from the Champ filter?

I removed the nipple from an old filter and simply installed it on the oil filter adapter fitting. After that, it's just like a car. That said, the threads are different between the Champion and the Tempest filters. Both will fit the adapter (obviously), but the Champions I have tried do not engage the Napa unit - but the Tempest nipple does.
 
I removed the nipple from an old filter and simply installed it on the oil filter adapter fitting. After that, it's just like a car. That said, the threads are different between the Champion and the Tempest filters. Both will fit the adapter (obviously), but the Champions I have tried do not engage the Napa unit - but the Tempest nipple does.

So, just to clarify I'm reading this correctly, going from Champion to Napa requires a different adapter?

Aren't they both 3/4-16 threads?
 
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Bob, could you explain how you dealt with the nipple on the Champ filter and no nipple on the 1515 filter. Did you install the nipple in the filter adapter and just spin the 1515 filter on and off like on a car, or did you screw the nipple into the filter each time?

Did you get a nipple from Napa Auto parts, or did you use the nipple from the Champ filter?

Yes, just like it is on your car.

I double nut an old Champion or Tempest filter and remove the nipple from a discarded filter. If they are stubborn I'll just cut apart the base of the filter. I then shorten the nipple on the lathe so that there's just enough thread to engage all the threads on the filter. That way you're not spinning the filter endlessly while oil is dripping all over the place. Thread the other side into the filter housing using red loctite and the two double nuts. They are 3/4-16.
 
So, just to clarify I'm reading this correctly, going from Champion to Napa requires a different adapter?

Aren't they both 3/4-16 threads?

3/4-16 on the engine side, but the filter side is different between the champ and tempest. In my case the Tempest nipple was required.

I mention this mainly to warn people of the possibility of a difference. Fortunately, the supply of nipples is as close as the trash can of your local FBO.
 
I use the Tempest. Cutting the filters open, the Champion may have one additional pleat but the Tempest is a lot less money.

Have not used the NAPA 1515 filter but have friends that have. They will safety wire it using a hose clamp in a similar way I safety wire the hose clamps on my smoke injectors.

IF you need a nipple, they can be purchased and installed like Bob said. They can be purchased cheaper than what Amazon sells them for.
 
Safety wiring oil filters is one of aviation's greatest mysteries to me.

One other, is safety wiring NPT thread plugs.

In either case, if they're appropriately torqued they will never spin off.

There's no provisions for safety wire on the Rotax 912 oil filter.

So why bother?
 
I've got a Champion nipple, or should. Hopefully it's in there after the last annual. :)

I just wanted to make sure to go from Champion to Napa (if I go that route) I won't need anything outside of what I've already got.
 
3/4-16 on the engine side, but the filter side is different between the champ and tempest. In my case the Tempest nipple was required.

I mention this mainly to warn people of the possibility of a difference. Fortunately, the supply of nipples is as close as the trash can of your local FBO.

Pretty strange - I just removed a Champion filter (CH48110-1) and extracted the threaded nipple. I just this minute measured the threads and both ends are 3/4 - 16 (shoulder in between). Outer thread diameter is the same too. It must have some thread specs different on the filter head to keep it tight.

Edit: No claims for any other filter part number.
 
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3/4-16 on the engine side, but the filter side is different between the champ and tempest. In my case the Tempest nipple was required.

I mention this mainly to warn people of the possibility of a difference. Fortunately, the supply of nipples is as close as the trash can of your local FBO.

Pretty strange - I just removed a Champion filter (w/number mentioned in OP) and extracted the threaded nipple. I just this minute measured the threads and both ends are 3/4 - 16 (shoulder in between). Outer thread diameter is the same too. It must have some thread specs different on the filter head to keep it tight.

There are two different thread sizes used on our Lycoming engines oil filters. Most new ones have 3/4"-16 but some old ones like my old narrow deck engine use 13/16"-16. I only have one filter adapter sitting in the shop to measure and it is 3/4"-16. I am making an assumption that there are some 13/16"-16 filter adapters floating around and would require a different nipple or a nipple that adapts from one size to another.

Looking up the NAPA 1515 filter it lists as a 3/4"-16 thread so would not work on an adapter that used the CH48103 or CH48104 long filter that is flying on my airplane. (Change CH to AA to convert from Champion to Tempest. Tempest may have a -2 after the part number also.)
 
OK, now it's coming back to me. I'm using a different NAPA filter and it needs the bigger (filter side) nipple that the Tempest features. Perhaps the NAPA 1515 is the same 3/4-16 that is on the Champ.
 
Filter

I use the Tempest filters and have had no issues. Purchase them in a 6 pack to decrease the cost a bit.

On my 4 I installed a Casper Labs 90 degree adapter to make it easier to change. I still had little room to the firewall. Casper told me to use HP1002 filters from K&N due to the smaller physical size (still lots of filter area inside). The guy at Casper told me they used to be a certified aviation filter before K&N bought them and are still made to the same spec with thicker wall can (for higher pressure), lockwire tabs and 1" nut. The checkvalve also works better than the Champion at keeping filtered stuff from being reintroduced into the oil. You can find them on Amazon to save even more. Worked fine for over 450 hrs and a dozen oil changes.

Al
 
Bob's excellent investigation on NAPA filters made me a believer. But I needed a bit of accommodation for my particular installation, so I use the 1521, which is shorter but with all the other same specs. Oil analysis as stellar as it was prior to the shift from conventional aviation filters.

I cut the nipple out of a Tempest filter with the band saw (almost, twisted the last bit to free it) and installed it on the engine with some green loktite.

I do not safety wire it. I (still) put a dab of torque seal on it, visible from the open oil door on every pre-flight. 300 hours, no movement ever noted.
 
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Hint........

If you use an oil filter that has no safety wire "tab", (such as used on the Rotax) you can still safety wire it by using a large hose clamp around the filter housing and wire to the adjusting bolt.
 
Casper told me to use HP1002 filters from K&N due to the smaller physical size (still lots of filter area inside).
l

I bought one of the HP1002 filters to try. I venture to guess it has about 1/4 the pleated media area of the 1515. Very small in comparison and unless physical room is an issue, there's no reason to use a small filter. The larger the filter, the lower the pressure drop across the filter.
 
My RV-6 came with a Tempest 48103 filter on it, that i've been replacing with like filters ever since. 48103's come without a nipple installed, so i'm guessing the nipple was installed in my engine (O-320 E2D) by a previous owner or the E2D came with a nipple installed? Would the Napa filters fit on the same nipple?

As for Safety Wiring, I have always safety wired the filter with just a hair of slack in the wire, and i've never found it tightened up when I go to change the oil... So it's not moving...
 
Not RV-related, but germane to this discussion. If anybody else out there is running a small Continental like our C85 or a C90 with the TAF-L oil filter adapter installed, the NAPA 1515 filter threads directly onto the TAF-L as it has an integral threaded nipple.

I haven't yet run the NAPA filters but will almost certainly switch to them for our C85-powered aircraft after seeing them do well on a neighbor's C90-powered airplane.
 
So... Is there any difference between Napa Gold 1515 and Napa Wix Gold 1515?

Ed Holyoke

I bought one of the HP1002 filters to try. I venture to guess it has about 1/4 the pleated media area of the 1515. Very small in comparison and unless physical room is an issue, there's no reason to use a small filter. The larger the filter, the lower the pressure drop across the filter.
 
My RV-6 came with a Tempest 48103 filter on it, that i've been replacing with like filters ever since. 48103's come without a nipple installed, so i'm guessing the nipple was installed in my engine (O-320 E2D) by a previous owner or the E2D came with a nipple installed? Would the Napa filters fit on the same nipple?

As for Safety Wiring, I have always safety wired the filter with just a hair of slack in the wire, and i've never found it tightened up when I go to change the oil... So it's not moving...

The Tempest 48103 filter is the same that my engine uses and it is 13/16"-16 thread. The research that I have done has the NAPA 1515 filter with 3/4"-16 thread so it would not work on either my engine or yours.
 
So... Is there any difference between Napa Gold 1515 and Napa Wix Gold 1515?

Ed Holyoke

Wix manufactures the Napa Gold filters, so not that I'm aware of.

FWIW I ought to mention that I have have some of my certified customers using the Challenger cleanable oil filters. They are made by K&P engineering and you can get the non-certified equivalent for about $100. They come apart very easily and can be inspected in seconds, without having to wash them down. Takes a few minutes to clean in a parts washer. Built in magnet. Very nicely made.
 
Got a link for that? They are $295 on aircraftspruce.

>FWIW I ought to mention that I have have some of my certified customers >using the Challenger cleanable oil filters. They are made by K&P engineering >and you can get the non-certified equivalent for about $100.
 
I just got off the phone with the Challenger Filter lady and she claims there is no non-certified (experimental) oil filter product.
Any other sources for that $100 Challenger oil filter?

George
 
I just got off the phone with the Challenger Filter lady and she claims there is no non-certified (experimental) oil filter product.
Any other sources for that $100 Challenger oil filter?

George

I'd hazard a guess that since Challenger doesn't actually make the filters, it's K&P Engineering that has an equivalent. I'd look for an equivalent to the Napa 1515, for example. In fact, I went to their site to check it out but their "filter finder" was marked as not functional.
 
Safety wiring oil filters is one of aviation's greatest mysteries to me.

One other, is safety wiring NPT thread plugs.

In either case, if they're appropriately torqued they will never spin off.

There's no provisions for safety wire on the Rotax 912 oil filter.

So why bother?

Robinson Helicopters have cut out safety wiring filters as "not necessary" on their piston helicopters.
 
I'd hazard a guess that since Challenger doesn't actually make the filters, it's K&P Engineering that has an equivalent. I'd look for an equivalent to the Napa 1515, for example. In fact, I went to their site to check it out but their "filter finder" was marked as not functional.

The STCed Challenger filter has K&P Engineering laser etched on it.

Napa Gold 1515 - 2001 Ford Explorer. So that is the vehicle you could ask for if you call them.

You want the housing with the nut machined on the end, so that would be the only difference between a stock automotive unit.
 
49clipper

First off, never buy anything that says Champion. Second, Tempest is a great product. Used them for years. Now I use the Napa 1515 like Bob said. No looking back. No problem in several years. For safety wire, put a 6" SS clamp around it, and tie to that.
Jim
 
The STCed Challenger filter has K&P Engineering laser etched on it.

Napa Gold 1515 - 2001 Ford Explorer. So that is the vehicle you could ask for if you call them.

You want the housing with the nut machined on the end, so that would be the only difference between a stock automotive unit.

Looks like the 1995 Toyota Landcruiser with the 4.5l v6 uses a Napa Gold 1515 as well, which means that the K&P equivalent should work, but I haven't found any information on what the K&P part # would be. I'm going to call them tomorrow and find out. I'm also going to ask if it has a bypass valve (I assume it does but...)
 
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Personally I can't imagine why anyone would go thru all the trouble to convert an auto filter when the total saving is probably less than $10 :confused:
 
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would go thru all the trouble to convert an auto filter when the total saving is probably less than $10 :confused:

Agree. Unless they have a firewall too close to the engine and need the 1/2" extra clearance.

The cheapest thing about flying is the PILOT.

You do know how copper wire was invented.......

-Marc


Two pilots were fighting over a penny.
 
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would go thru all the trouble to convert an auto filter when the total saving is probably less than $10 :confused:

Yes, we know, you've shared that opinion before.
 
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I use the Tempest filters and have had no issues. Purchase them in a 6 pack to decrease the cost a bit.

On my 4 I installed a Casper Labs 90 degree adapter to make it easier to change. I still had little room to the firewall. Casper told me to use HP1002 filters from K&N due to the smaller physical size (still lots of filter area inside). The guy at Casper told me they used to be a certified aviation filter before K&N bought them and are still made to the same spec with thicker wall can (for higher pressure), lockwire tabs and 1" nut. The checkvalve also works better than the Champion at keeping filtered stuff from being reintroduced into the oil. You can find them on Amazon to save even more. Worked fine for over 450 hrs and a dozen oil changes.

Al

Just for fun cut a K&N open, you will be underwhelmed. I was.
Tim Andres
 
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Personally I can't imagine why anyone would go thru all the trouble to convert an auto filter when the total saving is probably less than $10 :confused:

I guess "all the trouble" is subjective..

Seems like less than a minute or two worth of effort...
 
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would go thru all the trouble to convert an auto filter when the total saving is probably less than $10 :confused:

You just dont get it dude.

Yes, we know, you've shared that opinion before.

Yes I do get it and will continue to share my opinion!

A few folks saying "I've been doing this for years and haven't had any trouble" is a far cry from proving that what they are doing is safe. Tempest and Champion have millions of flt hrs of actual use along with the testing and engineering to back up their product in actual aircraft operations.

I get that everyone wants to save money, but the actual "savings" here is $7 per filter from what I see, so thats about $14 a year for the average guy.

The real issue here and the bottom line is I think the folks that view these threads need to know that the possible outcome from this "savings" with unproven modifications to the oil system may result is bodily harm or death.

I am definately not anti-experimental, but I am anti-unnecessary risk with no benefit.

I'm not sure my wife, passengers or my kids would agree that saving $7 is worh the risk, will yours?
 
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would go thru all the trouble to convert an auto filter when the total saving is probably less than $10 :confused:

1. I buy filters by the case when NAPA has a sale so the individual price is less than $2.50.
2. I have several cars and the 1068 used on the RV is common to one of my cars, while the unit used on my Rocket is common to another. Its very nice to always have a new filter on the shelf (or right down the street) when doing an oil change.
3. Changing out a nipple one time is "no trouble at all".
4. The further I can get away from an "aviation" part while still maintaining functional parity (or superiority), the better I like it. While I can easily afford the price of an "aviation" filter, something about paying for a name on the side of an otherwise identical metal can just rubs me the wrong way. As pilots and maintaners, we often are forced into buying an "aviation" product - sometimes for good reason - but oil filters are an area where we have a choice to say "not this time".
 
I get that everyone wants to save money, but the actual "savings" here is $7 per filter from what I see, so thats about $14 a year for the average guy.

You make an assumption that is not entirely accurate. What if there's an interest in exploring the use of auto filters because of other benefits they provide? For example, what if I'm interested in the K&P reusable filter because it has a better flow rate and helps cool the oil better than the Ch48110 filters do?

Have an opinion and ask the questions, sure, but don't do it in such a condescening manner because when you make assumptions and start slinging accusations from a holier-than-thou perspective, you kind of resemble this Simpsons character:

297.png
 
You make an assumption that is not entirely accurate. What if there's an interest in exploring the use of auto filters because of other benefits they provide? For example, what if I'm interested in the K&P reusable filter because it has a better flow rate and helps cool the oil better than the Ch48110 filters do?

Have an opinion and ask the questions, sure, but don't do it in such a condescening manner because when you make assumptions and start slinging accusations from a holier-than-thou perspective, you kind of resemble this Simpsons character:

The savings "assumption" is Amazon lists the Napa filter at $13 and ACS sells the Tempest for $20. If you or someone else is doing flow/pres/cooling tests on these auto filters vs the aircraft units I'm sure we would all be interested in seeing those numbers. And I never accused anybody of anything except perhaps a few folks touting auto filters as being the equivilant replacements of the aircraft units but without the data/testing to back it up.
 
Loss of oil due to filter failure. The Lyc can have 100+ psi at start up with cold oil. Most cars are probably half that.

Not true. There are plenty of street/strip automotive engines with high volume and high pressure oil pumps that significantly exceed the Lycoming oil system pressure and volume.

That said, it's a valid concern - but have you EVER heard of an automotive oil filter failure on an aircraft engine? If you have some evidence, I'd sure like to see it.

Earlier you wrote: ..."I'm not sure my wife, passengers or my kids would agree that saving $7 is worh the risk, will yours?..."

Keeping in mind there are SCORES of professional pilots, mechanics and engineers who say the same thing about E-AB airplanes in general and RV's in particular, we have to be careful about waving the "risk" flag. As a group, our airplanes have a proven track record of failure significantly higher than the certified fleet. As a willing participant in the "risky" RV world, do you have equally compelling evidence that suggests automotive filters are a poor choice in this application?
 
I have a friend that owns a Napa store and I get them by the case at a pretty steep discount. Less than $3.00/ea.

Its not about cost savings, although thats a nice side benefit. I am standardized on oil filters. I've changed ALL of my vehicles to use the Napa 1515, and in some cases I had to machine adapter plates. I use this filter on Audis, VWs, Porsches, Jeeps, mowers, hydraulic equipment, parts washers, and airplanes. Never had any problem remotely resembling a failure.

The only non-1515 oil filters I stock are aircraft filters for the certified aircraft I maintain. I buy around 20 certified aircraft filters a year.

I normally set Lycomings up to run 80-100 psi HOT. 105-110 cold is normal. No problem with these filters. Never have seen any bulging. The Napa 1515 is rated for a burst pressure of 290psi.

These filters have a bypass spring internally and so does a standard Lycoming oil filter housing. Both would have to fail in order for the filter to fail. If you as a rated mechanic Walt, have had one of filter housings apart and understood the system, you should know this but its obvious you haven't.

So Walt unless you come to play the game with some data and personal experience I ask you to refrain from posting on this subject, because its getting old having to rehash this over your uninformed opinions.
 
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I have a friend that owns a Napa store and I get them by the case at a pretty steep discount. Less than $3.00/ea.

Its not about cost savings, although thats a nice side benefit. I am standardized on oil filters. I've changed ALL of my vehicles to use the Napa 1515, and in some cases I had to machine adapter plates. I use this filter on Audis, VWs, Porsches, Jeeps, mowers, hydraulic equipment, parts washers, and airplanes. Never had any problem remotely resembling a failure.

The only non-1515 oil filters I stock are aircraft filters for the certified aircraft I maintain. I buy around 20 certified aircraft filters a year.

I normally set Lycomings up to run 80-100 psi HOT. 105-110 cold is normal. No problem with these filters. Never have seen any bulging. The Napa 1515 is rated for a burst pressure of 290psi.

These filters have a bypass spring internally and so does a standard Lycoming oil filter housing. Both would have to fail in order for the filter to fail. If you as a rated mechanic Walt, have had one of filter housings apart and understood the system, you should know this but its obvious you haven't.

So Walt unless you come to play the game with some data and personal experience I ask you to refrain from posting on this subject, because its getting old having to rehash this over your uninformed opinions.

So let me get this straight on my "data":

1) Champion and Tempest have approval from every major aircraft engine manufacturer as well as a PMA from the FAA.

2) Napa has been approved to run on everything from aircraft to lawn mowers, by Bob.

Ok I'm done. I feel personal attacks on my character are uncalled for just because you don't like what I have to say. I respect you Bob, but that doesn't mean I always agree with you, and I think I deserve the same respect.
 
No NAPA store in town :-(

So, I use the WIX 51085 on my 550-N. It fits my wife's Chrysler Hemi too, so that must add something to the equation! Just ordered a case of 'em from RockAuto.com - 12 filters for $48.

TCM uses oversized oil pumps on their engines, but with low pressures in the system. If I see 60PSI at start-up, it must be really cold! Normal pressure/temp is ~52-54PSI at 200F.

I have seen exactly one filter pop - when I was a teen. A buddy wanted more pressure out of his Chevy 327, so he stretched the pump regulator spring by 'about that much'. We sure panicked when we saw fresh oil coming out from under the car! Turns out he had set the pressure for 200+PSI..add the cold 50wt oil factor...the filter did not rupture -- it more or less went round and the O ring did not seat. Big mess.

In hindsight, it was a great idea - it just didn't work.:eek:
 
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