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Nav/Strobe Light wiring...any noise issues?

czechsix

Well Known Member
The wing wiring harness that came with the -14 kit doesn't use shielded wire for the strobes & nav lights as specified by AeroLED's recommended diagrams. Eliminating the shielded wire saves a bit of cost and weight, but for those of you flying who used Van's harnesses, do you have any strobe noise (through the headset)?

Interestingly, Van's tailcone harness does use shielded wiring for the tail nav/strobe light. I see there's a piece of black wire (a couple feet long) connected to the shield braid. Does that wire get terminated to the airframe, or the Suntail light mounting screw? I don't see that part specified in the tailcone plans.

Thanks,
 
Shielded wire

Mark,
Take the time to use shielded wire in the wings. I do have strobe and wig/wag noise. I’ve been too busy flying to fix the noise. It is the only noise issue I have.
Marvin

UPDATE: 4 January 2019
As part of my Conditional Inspection, I decided to address the strobe noise issue. In post #4 of this thread I discussed adding a Faraday shield/cage as decribed by Carl Froehlich, it did help some. Next I decided to install the noise filter as described on page OP-55-04. Although the instructions say it is only required for AFS/DYNON systems it did help significantly with my Garmin G3X system. So if your going to install the Vans wiring harness as supplied you should consider installing the supplied noise filter. If you choose to use shielded wire you will only need to do so for the wing portion of the harness because the portions inside the fuselage are shielded already.

29uzxhw.jpg


UPDATE: February 28, 2019
The rain finally stopped and I was able to fly, yay! The filter reduced the noise, but not eliminated.

UPDATE: June, 2019
I found the culprit! I had read on the internet, so it must be true, that the noise from strobes (etc...) can travel along the airframe and find its way into the system at many points. Although my headset jacks were installed with fabric shoulder washers my panel mounted PTT was not. I removed it temporarily and the noise ceased. I replaced the PTT as supplied by many shops with the non-metallic switch below from McMaster-Carr.
m99648.jpg
 
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Harness

Did you use standard harness and AeroLeds?

I used the standard harness. As a first time builder, I was unaware of the difference. I did read the Aeroleds warning, but did not quite understand the difference. I did comply with the Vans revision to ground the lights at the fuselage and not the wingtip. This week I intend to do the suggestion from Carl Froehlich. If it does not help I will rewire with shielded wire.

Quote from Carl Froehlich:

“Two things:
- I had the exact same problem - using the first generation of the AEROLED nav/strobes. Calling then they recommended a fix. I was able to eliminate 95% of the noise by putting an aluminum backing plate under the nav/stobe on the inside of the fiberglass wingtip. The nav/strobe mounting screws make the connection between the nav/stobe case to the aluminum backing plate. Take the nav/strobe ground wire and cut it - leaving just enough to ground it under one of the mounting screws (the shorter the better) - and then the ground to the plane on the same screw.
- Later I talked to the AEROLED guys at Oshkosh. They did a mod from the first ones I had and exchanged mine for no charge. I kept the backing plate setup.
No noise at all now.

PM me your email and I’ll provide photos.

Carl”
 
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Another data point, I abandoned the nav lighting harness wires in the wings and ran separate shielded cables. I am using Flyleds and have zero noise issues.
 
I have used shielded wire for NAV/Strobe and landing light and really happy as I have ZERO noise. I would not know if they are actually on, in a bright daylight.
 
Chris Moon
I am in the middle of my wing build and was planning on doing the same thing...flyleds and shielded wire. Question.... did you hard wire from the lights to the control board or did you use connectors at the tip and root? If connectors were used did you use the supplied molex connectors or something else?
 
I wasn't a builder, but rather a buyer. Everytime I turn on my Nav and or strobes, I have a high pitched squeal in my headset. Drives me nuts.:( Do what these guys are saying.
 
Mark,
Take the time to use shielded wire in the wings. I do have strobe and wig/wag noise. I?ve been too busy flying to fix the noise. It is the only noise issue I have.

Marvin, I'm surprised you've got wig/wag noise, I used unshielded wires in my RV-8A for the landing lights as do most people and had zero noise from the wig-wag. What is driving the wig-wag in your airplane...GAD 27? Or do you have the AeroLED Sunspot landing/taxi lights that have the built-in wig-wag function?

Also, is the wiring from your audio panel to headset jacks running in the same bundle as the landing light and strobe power wires? Is the audio wiring shielded, with shields grounded only at the audio panel end (no shield connection to airframe at the headset jack)?
 
Another data point, I abandoned the nav lighting harness wires in the wings and ran separate shielded cables. I am using Flyleds and have zero noise issues.

I have used shielded wire for NAV/Strobe and landing light and really happy as I have ZERO noise.

Did you guys tie the shields to ground at both ends of the wire? And did you ground the black wire for the lights locally at the wingtips, or run a dedicated wire all the way back for the ground path? If the latter, was the ground return wire inside the shield with the power wire (i.e. twisted pair with power & ground) or was the ground return wire run separately as a standalone, unshielded wire?
 
Chris Moon
I am in the middle of my wing build and was planning on doing the same thing...flyleds and shielded wire. Question.... did you hard wire from the lights to the control board or did you use connectors at the tip and root? If connectors were used did you use the supplied molex connectors or something else?

I have a connector at the wing tips so they can be removed and another connector at the wing root. In both places I used CPC connectors.
 
Did you guys tie the shields to ground at both ends of the wire? And did you ground the black wire for the lights locally at the wingtips, or run a dedicated wire all the way back for the ground path? If the latter, was the ground return wire inside the shield with the power wire (i.e. twisted pair with power & ground) or was the ground return wire run separately as a standalone, unshielded wire?

The Flyleds instructions have you run a 3 wire shielded cable to each wing tip and use the shield as a ground for the position lights as part of the circuit. I don't have anything grounded locally, everything is run back to the controller board under the pilot seat and grounded from the board to the forest of tabs on the firewall.
 
Did you guys tie the shields to ground at both ends of the wire? And did you ground the black wire for the lights locally at the wingtips, or run a dedicated wire all the way back for the ground path? If the latter, was the ground return wire inside the shield with the power wire (i.e. twisted pair with power & ground) or was the ground return wire run separately as a standalone, unshielded wire?
I used a dedicated ground wire which is part of the shielded wire, two conductor shielded wire, and the shield is grounded only on one side as this is the standard practice as I understand it.
For the NAV which I am using FlyLED, is a three conductor shielded wire and I am following their diagram. The shield is grounded only one side.
 
Whelen Orion 650 & 500 requires NO shielding . . .

I am a fan of Whelen - they have been in this business for years and are use to meeting FAA requirements. So I had a few discussions with Whelen regarding their Orion 650 (wingtips) and Orion 500 (tail). I questioned why their install drawings did not require any shielded wire and grounding . . . long story short - it has to do with the power supply they employ. They see no noise emitted from these products. They emphasized that their PS is different then what many competitors use. The price is the same as AEROLED and i am going with Whelen to avoid the added wiring and possible noise issues. The only issue is the tail light which TimO detailed in an earlier post - it doesn't fit without a bit of fiberglass work on the lower rudder fairing.

Just a point of reference . . .
 
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Nav/Strobe/Landing Lights

I'm trying to finalize a wing wiring plan before I rivet the bottom wing skins on my 14A project. I'm using the AeroLed Nav/Strobes at the wingtips, and a pair of Whelen lights as landing lights. Additionally, I plan on using the garmin GMU-11 magnetometer installed per the plans at the inboard section of the left wing, and the garmin GAP-26 unregulated pitot tube. I was planning on using the kit supplied wire harness but, after reading the above posts, I think I may do something different. I want to minimize the interference of the wiring from the wingtip lighting that will pass approx. 12" aft of the magnetometer location. After reviewing the posts above, my plan is to run a shielded 3 conductor wire from the Aero Led Nav/Strobes to a plug located at the inboard wing section. This plug location is pre-designed for the RV14 and will later connect to another wiring harness from the fuselage.
I'm still learning wiring basics, so bear with me. The attached pic is from the installation guide for the AeroLed Nav/Strobes.

It appears to show three twisted wires and the shield being used as the ground. Is this correct? If so, my question is what is the preferred method of transitioning the shield to a wire that can be installed in a plug. My guess would be to unravel enough of the shield so that some type of connector can be attached, and transition to an insulated wire made up. Something like this?

Above pic just an example. I plan on using this wire:

The plan for my landing lights is twist two wires (unshielded pwr/gnd) and run them along side the shielded wire for the nav/strobes discussed above.
Am I on the right track..or at least "a" track?:)
Thanks!
 
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I have had good luck using snap on Ferrite core rings on the strobe wiring nearest the strobe/powerpack.
 
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Wire

I'm trying to finalize a wing wiring plan before I rivet the bottom wing skins on my 14A project. I'm using the AeroLed Nav/Strobes at the wingtips, and a pair of Whelen lights as landing lights. Additionally, I plan on using the garmin GMU-11 magnetometer installed per the plans at the inboard section of the left wing, and the garmin GAP-26 unregulated pitot tube. I was planning on using the kit supplied wire harness but, after reading the above posts, I think I may do something different. I want to minimize the interference of the wiring from the wingtip lighting that will pass approx. 12" aft of the magnetometer location. After reviewing the posts above, my plan is to run a shielded 3 conductor wire from the Aero Led Nav/Strobes to a plug located at the inboard wing section. This plug location is pre-designed for the RV14 and will later connect to another wiring harness from the fuselage.
I'm still learning wiring basics, so bear with me. The attached pic is from the installation guide for the AeroLed Nav/Strobes.

It appears to show three twisted wires and the shield being used as the ground. Is this correct? If so, my question is what is the preferred method of transitioning the shield to a wire that can be installed in a plug. My guess would be to unravel enough of the shield so that some type of connector can be attached, and transition to an insulated wire made up. Something like this?

The plan for my landing lights is twist two wires (unshielded pwr/gnd) and run them along side the shielded wire for the nav/strobes discussed above.
Am I on the right track..or at least "a" track?:)
Thanks!

Something to consider. The Nav Power, Strobe Power, and Ground are normally all thicker 18 AWG wire to support the power demand of the Strobe. On my suntail the power draw was 0.4 amps continuous for the Nav light, 3.4 Amps pulsating for the Strobe, and all the power of course returned through the ground wire. The green sync wire coming from the lights are 22 AWG since I assume only a small amount of energy is flowing through it to synchronize all the strobes (I don't have an amperage draw number for the sync wire).

With that said, I chose to run an 18 AWG 3-conductor shielded wire to the wings for Nav, Strobe, and Ground with a separate 22 AWG single unshielded wire for the sync. I am using the shield as true shielding, not a ground wire. Also, since the two power and 1 ground wire all go to the firewall I could continue them in the shield all way to their destination. The Sync wire routes to a splice under the seats with the other two sync wires. I also have no data on how much Current / Amperage the shielding of M27500 wire can handle without overheating, but would assume it is ok since that is how a few manufacturers recommend wiring their lights.

On a side note, I have also decided to mount the GMU 11 in the tail section on a shelf fabricated between the longerons about midway back to prevent magnetic issues from all the high power draw devices in the wings (pitot wiring specifically). By placing it high on a shelf it keeps it about 2-3 ft away from the trim servos and the suntail electrical wiring which is more than I could do for any wing location. Multiple methods seemed to have worked in application and I am not trying to persuade anyone in any direction. Simply offering up one methodology.

I am also happy to share my wiring diagram if anyone is interested (discussed in a previous thread). Just PM with an email if desired as I can send in the working Visio file or a read-only PDF.
 
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Sync Wire

I was curious and emailed AeroLED about how much amperage runs through their Sync wire. They said it is about 10 ma or 0.01 Amps (if I did the conversion correctly). Definitely not enough to effect a magnetic field.
 
My setup is stock. Shielded 18G 3 strand in the fuse for nav, strobe, and sync. Unshielded to the tips connected at the wing root. Strobe ground and light ground connect together and run to the wing root where it attaches to fuse. Shield in fuse length grounded at wing root fuse.

Heated pitot with no controller has twisted 14g in the wing with a ground at the wing root.

No noise in my GMA245 audio from lights or strobe. All AeroLED. Gmu22 in the left wing doesn?t blip at all. Probably will help to look at your audio jacks and make sure they aren?t grounded in any way and that your shields for audio are exactly per plans.
 
Thanks

Thanks guys for the info and ideas.
Jon, I like the idea of keeping the sync wire separate and using the third conductor in the shielded wire for the ground. The only reason I was going to use the shield as ground is because I believe I remember reading that method "may" reduce the magnetic field better. I may need that capability due to the location of my magnetometer in the left wing. However, I'll need more information as to whether using the shield as a ground return is an accepted practice in the aviation world. Using the shield as "shield only", if I recall correctly, provides better reduction of external noise..radio interference , etc. Based on that info, your plan seems solid since you are mounting the magnetometer in the tail cone.
This seems like one of those areas where there are a few right answers. I just need to make a decision and move forward.
 
You should use the third wire for ground. It is twisted with the other two so will mitigate any magnetic flux effect of the varying DC current. If you make the shield the return ground you don't get that benefit.
 
JDA_BTR . You talked me into it. I'm going with the shielded 3 conductor, and will use the 3rd wire as a real ground vs using the shield. Final answer!
 
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Updated post #2

Good morning,

I updated post #2 to explain where I found my strobe, wig-wag noise in my system. Short answer is it was getting in via a metallic panel mounted PTT.
 
I used the standard wing wiring since I didn't know any better 3 years ago. I use the ground wire provided for the landing light to bring the nav/strobe ground back to the fuselage ground point, as showed somewhere in the AeroLED instructions. I didn't use any shielded wire in the wing. Nothing is grounded out in the wing.

G3X system with GTR45, GTR 20, GTN 650 and GMA-245; Zero noise anywhere in any combination of equipment/radios/anything.

I also grounded per the plans with the screw point at the fuselage next to the wing root.

I did make one change and my pitot wiring is ground/12V twisted pair, but still grounded at the wing root.

I think that the biggest item to prevent noise is single-point grounding every audio cable exactly as shown in the docs, and making very sure the mic/phone jacks are not grounded by using the proper fiber/rubber washers made for that.
 
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