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plane power alternator failed

Bad Link

RV6airplanePilot said:
for cost of $25. I cut the wires inside the old regulator to remove its function. Then made a dremel cut in the brush box to break the old circuit that supplied 14 volts to the lower brush. Solder 2 short wires for the new brush circuit. Pictures and more detail on my Picasa page. BTW my new 70 amp alternator stopped charging after 3 years and 500 hours. The brushes were worn down to about half the original size. Plan to replace them every 2 years from now on. Very easy job. Cost $5 to $10.
Dale RV6a 1540 TT

https://picasaweb.google.com/110878516619960001571/AviationExternalVoltageRegulator?authuser=0&feat=directlink
Click to expand...

Dale....this link is not the correct one. I'm interested in your solution. Hopefully I don't have a problem but I won't know until I'm flying....soon. Then again, I have a PP unit so I don't know.
 
Sorry - fixed; made public

GLPalinkas said:
Dale....this link is not the correct one. I'm interested in your solution. Hopefully I don't have a problem but I won't know until I'm flying....soon. Then again, I have a PP unit so I don't know.
Click to expand...

Thanks Gary,
I should know to make sure the album is public. It was always my default, but Picasa changed so that it defaulted to private. Should work now.
Dale
 
Plane Power bearing gone

Just finishing up my annual and noticed play in the rear bearing of the 60A Plane Power alt.

Took it apart and noted the rear bearing was toast (lots of play)..Didn't pull it all the way down but seeing as I didn't fancy forking over $225 I went and found my original Autozone special that replaced with the PP.

Why did I replace it in the first place..well I was getting noise spikes that was resetting the GNS430W every half a minute or so. I realised I had painted the mounting brackets thus creating a high resistance ground path. But I had the PP in my hands at that point.

I put the Autozone special back in and flew for an hour, even let the 430 fly an approach via the trutrak..Perfect..At least no problems so far and zero cost.

lets hope the darn thing doen't act up during a real approach one day.

Frank
 
glad to hear your autozone alternator is working. I went the expense and got a new PP alternator. but not next time. I had my starter go bad a few weeks ago. I upgraded to the NL starter from skytec. they took my old starter and gave me a refund after I recieved my new starter(plane was never down). very nice company to deal with. I now have an airplane that sounds cool on start up. Yup, people come out of their hangar every time I start.

PP, I can't say much for them, not helpfull at all, I was lead to believe is was all my fault. too tight of belt and such. I guess cross of the fingers and legs and whatever is in order right now.

I was about 60 days out of warrenty on the PP.
 
PP alternator

I know what you mean.. I know my belt was not overtightened but there have been a rash of bearing/housing failures.

This tells me there is a problem with the alternator in general and if PP are not willing to fix the issue (and charge the standard exhorbitant fee) then I will only pay it if there is not a decent alternative.

But in this case a very expensive alternator failed in 400 hours, that seems to be the same as what folks are getting out of Autozone specials..Well, then might as well go the cheap route..as long as the thing doesn't fail catastrophically in IFR of course (I have a 8 amp backup that seems to work well enough in any case).

Its not hard to drop the alternator off at each annual and check the brush length and feel the bearings..If the bearings are rough..simply take it back..Lifetime warranty!..Can't beat that:)

Amazing isn't it that the local Autozone will waranty a $100 alternator for LIFE.

Frank
 
I'm getting close to needing an alternator. Which automotive alternator will fit a Lycoming? I assume mounting brackets make it work but what does one order to make it all work?

Bevan
 
frankh said:
I know what you mean.. I know my belt was not overtightened but there have been a rash of bearing/housing failures.

This tells me there is a problem with the alternator in general and if PP are not willing to fix the issue (and charge the standard exhorbitant fee) then I will only pay it if there is not a decent alternative.

But in this case a very expensive alternator failed in 400 hours, that seems to be the same as what folks are getting out of Autozone specials..Well, then might as well go the cheap route..as long as the thing doesn't fail catastrophically in IFR of course (I have a 8 amp backup that seems to work well enough in any case).

Its not hard to drop the alternator off at each annual and check the brush length and feel the bearings..If the bearings are rough..simply take it back..Lifetime warranty!..Can't beat that:)

Amazing isn't it that the local Autozone will waranty a $100 alternator for LIFE.

Frank
Click to expand...

understand totally where you are coming from. My alternator failed from the stator wires breaking. I was insured that the new alternator had NO changes to this area. So here I'm sitting worrying about my new alternator, no changes and more than likely happen again.

I understand that an alternator can be bought for LIFE. I just went that way for the alternator in my silverado. it ended up being 150, but that is still better than 250 every two years. :mad:
 
Alternators that work

Bevan said:
I'm getting close to needing an alternator. Which automotive alternator will fit a Lycoming? I assume mounting brackets make it work but what does one order to make it all work?

Bevan
Click to expand...

Check this link out which is where I went. I ended up with the 1997 Toyota unit which comes with the serpentine pulley..so I had to go find a regular pulley. I'd probably go with the Samurai unit next time as I really don't need all that power.

http://www.listerboy.com/alternator.htm

The vitally important point is to make sure you have a good ground between the alternator and the engine block..I used painted brackets and that was enough to give the alternator (and my GNS430W) fits..Thats how i ended up with the PP alternator trying to fix this issue.

I used the Vans tensioning bracket and the belt to suit. the mounting bracket you will probably have to make.

Frank
 
Alternators that work pt2

I used the Belt NAPA 3L360W belt..slightly longer than listed.

I also ended up re-using the PP mounting bracket and some stacking washers to take up the distance between the bracket and alt.. You actually want the mounting bracket about an inch taller than the Vans backet as this will actually allow the alt to snug up closer to the engine giving you more cowl clearance...Yes I know this sound counterintuitive but its true. I used the Vans dimension when making my original brackets and the alt ended up way too close to the cowl.

Maybe somebody has a PP mounting bracket and can give us the dimension from the engine block to the center of the hole on the lower bracket..It should be about 1.5 to 2".

Use this dimension when making your own monting bracket as it works perfectly.

The Vans tensioning arm bracket can be used, I had to shorten mine by an inch from memory.

Frank
 
Drop in PP replacement

allbee said:
i would like to know of a drop in replacement for the PP.
Click to expand...

Well it has to be automotive, the innards look identical to all the other ND alts so clearly its a ND alternator thats repackaged somehow.

Frank
 
What about the brackets?

Has anyone evaluated a substitute alternator which utilizes the PP mounting arrangement. I have replaced one PP and not looking forward to re-engineering the alternator mounting, if there is another failure.:( Not sure I want to continue down the replacement road.

Thanks for any advice!

David
RV 7
 
YES

I reused the PP bracket with the Toyota alternator.

I simply used a cople of stacks of flat washers to take up the gap and used the same bolt.

The top bracket I was using the Vans tensioner bracket in any case.

Frank
 
Auto Zone Trash

AZ will not replace them as many times as you like. I would not buy anything from the wal mart of the parts business. Everything they sell is trash. I am in the Auto Parts business and all they have is price. Poor quality. At least if you are going to use a ND alternator get a good one.
 
I have to agree. I have never had good luck with electric components that came from AZ. YMMV.
 
Gary Bricker said:
AZ will not replace them as many times as you like. I would not buy anything from the wal mart of the parts business. Everything they sell is trash. I am in the Auto Parts business and all they have is price. Poor quality. At least if you are going to use a ND alternator get a good one.
Click to expand...

And I just read the entire thread again................to find out how many failures there are; versus how many Plane Power units have been sold. I would guess that the percentage is small; but since the people with complaints are usually the ones who respond to threads like this.........it tends to look like an epic problem. That IS one trouble with the internet. In reality, we need actual numbers. Complaints from 10 or so individuals, might really mean nothing, when compared to possible thousands in service.

And then of course, there really IS a chance of possible installation problems, such as belt alignment, excessive vibration, belt tension, cooling, and clearance from the cowl.

I'm just stating the case from a position as a devils advocate, because it's happened with comm radios etc. The vendor gets blasted, when it was really owner wiring problems. In this case, it could be premature failure, or installation problems. But never the less...........what's the actual percentage failure?

In my case, the Van's unit failed early. It's replaced with a Plane Power, that had a better mounting bracket to keep the belt in perfect alignment. I also like the idea of built in "over voltage" protection.
 
My personal opinion only: If you want a reliable alternator, get a B and C.

AZ parts and wiring from Radio Shack... my worst nightmare!
 
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$.02

I've been down this path and concluded :
1. Nippon-Denzo 40amp small frame 5lbs,new from the factory in Taiwan (Its where they all are made) the older ones have round plugs,newer ones a T plug, get the one with the cast pulley not the stamped one or you can buy a larger pulley to reduce the speed (recommended with the large lycoming ring gear) you want 1 to two threads exposed above the nut add inspection lacquer to the nut/shaft.the back shield needs some high temp red silicone added in drops under the aluminum heat shield for vibration.Brand new $80,Sears Hardware has steel spacers to fit these to the Boss mount bracket,PP has a very nice mounting kit there pitch has to do with a better brush materiel for high altitude and inverted fans for correct rotation,the Vans mounting kit works just fine.I recommend running a dedicated ground wire from the alternator to the block and then the negative terminal of the battery,you can add a capacitor to the back of the alternator for noise if you like.At 5lbs a spare in your tool kit along with a set of tubes for the tires make this a no brainier. IMHO

I find it best not to lie,When asked what is this for? It's for my RV!
 
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Getting close

allbee said:
i would like to know of a drop in replacement for the PP.
Click to expand...

I'm one of the ones who had a PP failure described earlier in this thread. I performed many image searches on the net trying to match up the PP unit with an off the shelf auto replacement. Some of the pictures seemed very close but it appears that this may not be an auto alternator. Instead the closest I could find seemed to fit fork lifts or tractors. The chance of finding a replacement locally when you break down is not good if that is the case. I came across a thread a month or so ago where someone recommended this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-ALTERNATOR-RIGMASTER-GEN-101211-8810-18504-6470-/140620185704?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20bd9dc068

Since that is a UK link I searched E-bay and found what I thought was the US equivalent. At $107 I ordered it and it appears to be a perfect match except for the mounting ears and pulley. I am waiting for an oil change to pull the cowl and do a comparison. I may be able to use a washer stack as spacers to make it fit the PP bracket and align the pulleys. Or, I may try and get some spacers machined and carry it as a spare on long cross countries. I'd have to find a puller and exchange the pulley while traveling or carry a puller. Or if someone can match a pulley from one of the racing shops we could pre-order and install.

Still searching. I'm sure there is a perfect match out there.

p.s. DanH posted about fan shroud problems with his PP. And of course the E-Bay unit won't have the safety wire.

Merry Christmas everyone!
 
Puller not needed

Caveman said:
I'd have to find a puller and exchange the pulley while traveling or carry a puller. Or if someone can match a pulley from one of the racing shops we could pre-order and install.


Merry Christmas everyone!
Click to expand...

Actually you ideally need an impact wrench to undo the large shaft nut, then use a punch and a hammer..Just wrap your hand around the pulley and squeeze so your trying to pull off the pulley with one hand..and then hold the punch on the center of the shaft with same hand..Yes its doable.

The give the punch a sharp tap with a hammer (or rock from the side of the runway..:)..) and the pulley pops right off.

Frank
 
Good point

rhill said:
I've been down this path and concluded :
1. Nippon-Denzo 40amp small frame 5lbs,new from the factory in Taiwan (Its where they all are made) the older ones have round plugs,newer ones a T plug, get the one with the cast pulley not the stamped one or you can buy a larger pulley to reduce the speed (recommended with the large lycoming ring gear) you want 1 to two threads exposed above the nut add inspection lacquer to the nut/shaft.the back shield needs some high temp red silicone added in drops under the aluminum heat shield for vibration.Brand new $80,Sears Hardware has steel spacers to fit these to the Boss mount bracket,PP has a very nice mounting kit there pitch has to do with a better brush materiel for high altitude and inverted fans for correct rotation,the Vans mounting kit works just fine.I recommend running a dedicated ground wire from the alternator to the block and then the negative terminal of the battery,you can add a capacitor to the back of the alternator for noise if you like.At 5lbs a spare in your tool kit along with a set of tubes for the tires make this a no brainier. IMHO

I find it best not to lie,When asked what is this for? It's for my RV!
Click to expand...

I am not immune from the Autozone = trash argument. It definately has some truth from my experience.

I did pull off the back of the AZ alt to have a look see and it appears to be wll put together. having said that a new 40A ND alt may be the way to go if 40A is sufficient. I suspect it is and I may investigate this as an option at the next oil change in warmer weather..:)

The AZ special I just happened to have and it was almost a drop in replacement, with the PP on its way out and temps in hangar below freezing I took the "you fly with the alternator you have, not the alternator you want" approach..:)

Merry Chistmas all.
 
hey Joe

Caveman said:
I came across a thread a month or so ago where someone recommended this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-ALTERNATOR-RIGMASTER-GEN-101211-8810-18504-6470-/140620185704?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20bd9dc068

Since that is a UK link I searched E-bay and found what I thought was the US equivalent. At $107 I ordered it and it appears to be a perfect match except for the mounting ears and pulley. I am waiting for an oil change to pull the cowl and do a comparison. Still searching. I'm sure there is a perfect match out there.

p
Click to expand...

I opened the link and was surprised to find this is a 60A unit, not a 40A. I wonder if the two mounting ears is really sufficient vs the 3 (well its effectively a 3 mounting ear system on the PP)

Looks a promissing unit though

Frank
 
ND price

Check out ebay #360401342609, $75.20 free shipping, you can add a large pulley, a spacer from Sears hardware, etc.... They are so darn cute you can use one a paper weight on your desk at work. Merry Christmas to all!
 
Nice

That definately has appeal, even as a throw it in yer bag on a long cross country backup..I assume its a ND unit?

Frank
 
I think its a bigger frame(the same size as the PP unit) The spacer from Sears is what you fill the gap in the mount with.I like the 40amp ND for its weight,size.It fits in the palm of your hand,is well made.With the move to LED lights 40amps should be more than enough juice for a VFR ship.The units from AZ are rebuilds for the same money buy new.
 
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Yes but

The idea of buying new is appealing on the surface, but do we have any idea of the quality of these new units?..Are they new and made by ND or are they cheap Chinese knock offs?

I mean for all we know these things are as bad as AZ rebuilts..Hopefully we'll find out out soon enough.

As to if 40A is enough i would agree that for a VFR ship it should be plenty..For IFR with a heated Pitot and sme signifcant lighting/panel that may or may not be the case.

I had better do some adding up.

frank
 
I have the 60 amp PP in a vfr airplane, but I have seat heaters and fly at night. In cold weather after dark the alternator is putting out lots of amps with strobes, taxi and landing lights, and heaters on. I understand it isn't good to run at more than 70 - 75 % of rated capacity for extended periods if you want long life?

Here's some pictures of my unit and installation. I was trying to match a drop in replacement - electric plug, terminal position, mounting ears and all...

https://picasaweb.google.com/JJSchneiders/PlanePowerAlternatorPics?authkey=Gv1sRgCNid54LO19jCcA#

I wish I had taken pics of the E-Bay model before taking it to the hangar. You can compare pics in my previous post in that E-Bay link towards the bottom of their ad, though.

Please ignore the mess in my "buddies" hangar :eek:
 
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