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Takeoff Drift RV-7A

Pmerems

Pmerems

Well Known Member
Advertiser
Gents,

Being a new RV-7A driver (23 hrs) I need some advice.

During my takeoff roll I do my best to track the centerline of the runway. I am not the best rudder man but I am learning. My problem is just as I start to rotate my RV-7A drifts quickly to the left about a few feet. Seems to shift more with left minor crosswinds.

I have been using a MD80 micro cameras taped to my canopy frame (tip-up) and I capture my takeoff and landings on video so I can critique my flight Works great, I get 50 minutes of video from the camera and it only costs about $20.

What am I doing wrong? Am I not using enough rudder? I am concerned if I use more rudder on takeoff roll I will drift to the right side before becoming airborne.

Any Advise? I am still learning.

Thanks,
 
It isn't like rudder is an on/off control. Use however much rudder you need to maintain centerline through the takeoff roll. Also, add in some right aileron. That'll help too.
 
It takes right rudder to counter the engine and prop torque, so train your feet to add rudder with throttle application on take-off. It might help to start with the right rudder applied and then add throttle.

In general,, and you already know this, use enough rudder to keep the nose straight.

Incidentally, since some right rudder is necessary with no crosswind, think of that as the neutral rudder position for take-off. Then you can see how you have less total rudder available in a left crosswind than you would in a right crosswind.

That means that you can handle more right crosswind than left - something to consider when choosing which runway to use.

Dave
 
Hi Paul:

An airplane at yawing at high thrust, low speed when chainging pitch is completely normal (for example, in a Cessna 140 you almost have to stomp the rudder when you bring the tailwheel up), but I'll tell you why I don't have this problem in my 7A -- it's because I don't rotate the airplane off the ground.

When I go full throttle I have the stick about 1/2 to 3/4 back and left or right aileron as cross wind conditions necessitate (and of course rudder to track straight down the runway). As I accelerate and the nosewheel starts to lift (<30kts) I take out some of the elevator and accelerate with the nosewheel only slightly off the ground. I then let the airplane fly itself off the ground. I will typically hold the airplane in ground effect until 80kts IAS. That's just my personal preference as I like to use that airspeed for climb on cool days. On warm days I'll quickly establish climb at 100kts for cooling.

I would encourage ever RV-XA driver to go out and do touch and gos with the nosewheel never touching the ground.
 
Back pressure

Gents,

I don't believe I am getting the nose off the ground soon enough. I start my roll with neutral stick position. Once rolling I begin to pull back but the nose doesn't come up for a while. When the nose comes up it is only another second or so before the plane is off the ground. I keep worrying about pulling too hard on the roll and getting airborne too early.

Here is a video one of my recent takeoffs. Slight cross wind from the left (5 kt). Notice the drift after lifting off.

www.experimentalaero.com/Videos/takeoff1.wmv

Any advice?

Paul
 
Right rudder!

Hi Paul,

Watching that video, I can actually hear the Voice of Greg (my Instructor) saying 'right rudder!'. There's a moment of transition when the wheels leave the ground that the balance of the aircraft immediately changes... just have to learn when to kick that rudder in. In my very limited experience, that skill comes naturally (but at a time of it's own choosing!).

Have you done any tailwheel training? I think the TW configuration amplifies the dynamics at play... but they are still there with a nose wheel.

Pretty reasonable video quaility for the money...

-jon
 
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Ball?

Paul,

What's the ball saying? Is it centered? That's the first objective. But, coordinated flight isn't going to keep the airplane from drifting if there is a cross wind. You need to counter act that with rudder AND stick so that the airplane is crabbing down the length of the runway as needed in order to track the center line. If you use the rudder alone to do this you'll find yourself cross controlled.

Tom
 
The airplane is having it's way with you and you're letting it! Time to become the pilot in "command" and use the rudder! Those pedals on the floor are not just for taxi...

How much rudder?

...as much as it takes!

Watching the video, my right foot pressed the floor under my desk as you were trying aileron. I'd say you should go get a tailwheel checkout - that will quickly cure you of your paralyzed legs.
 
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Hi Paul

I don't have a lot of hours on my RV 7A either only 60 hours in fact. I did take several hours of transition training and was taught just like Jamie's discription. Holding the stick back during initial take off until the nose comes off the ground then pushing the stick forward keeping the nose wheel just off the runway until the plane flys off. I will add that how you have the airplane trimmed makes a difference. I like to trim the plane so that the control force is light bringing the nose off the runway. I have manual trim and basically a couple turns from neutral position for a pitch up attitude. Anyways hopefully that makes since and helps.
 
I slowly add power such that I get full throttle around lift off. This reduces the engine torque problem since you gain rudder authority with more airspeed.

You don't need taildragger time. Just better instruction in the plane you have.
 
Av8torTom said:
Paul,

What's the ball saying? Is it centered? That's the first objective. But, coordinated flight isn't going to keep the airplane from drifting if there is a cross wind. You need to counter act that with rudder AND stick so that the airplane is crabbing down the length of the runway as needed in order to track the center line. If you use the rudder alone to do this you'll find yourself cross controlled.

Tom
Click to expand...

Tom,
I don't want engage in a discussion about the merits (or not) of crabbing down the length of the runway during takeoff, but I offer you this tidbit that you might find useful for ALL takeoffs... no wind, right, left, 10kts, 50kts, etc. At lift-off, if use whatever controls are necessary to keep your wings level and the ball in the center you'll track straight down the runway and the extended center line . Give it a try... it works!
 
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A bit shocked at some of the feedback

Gents,

I appreciate the feedback.

I maybe slow getting the hang of it but I indeed had transition training with very reputable instructors and it now time to fine tune my skills.

I will try the aft stick technique during starting roll tomorrow to see how that might help and kick in a little more rudder at the right moment.

Thanks
 
Rotation effect

Pmerems said:
... My problem is just as I start to rotate my RV-7A drifts quickly to the left about a few feet. ...
Click to expand...

As the nose is lifted during rotation, the propeller will pull the nose even further left due to gyroscopic precession. Therefore, there will be a need for more right rudder as the airplane is rotated. Its just due to the gyroscopic effect of all the spinning mass on the nose of the airplane, and is quite normal.
 
"A" models are not rotated like you see being done with Warriors or 172s.

The Piper-Cessna trend is to run down the runway with the nose planted on the runway and once you exceed stall speed, you lift the nose off and fly the a/c off.

The RV nose was not designed to be treated like that. Do you remember soft field take offs? That is what an RV*A wants.

Line up on the runway. Pull the stick to your gut. Apply full power to the count of 3, as the nose lifts, relax the stick to keep the nose wheel just clear of the runway. As you are doing this, keep the a/c lined with the runway with your rudder. When the a/c breaks ground, push the stick forward and keep the a/c 3 to 5 feet above the runway till you reach your departure speed.
 
I have conducted several BFR's (actually Flight Review's, but I still like the term "BFR") in RV-*A over the last few years, and I usually ask the "Reviewee" to do a touch and go, and never let the nose wheel touch down.

For some, it is easy, as they have been flying their RV properly. For others, it takes a few tries, or maybe a demonstration, and then they not only "get" it, but they like it.

I like to see how early in the takeoff roll I can lift the nose wheel off, then hold it a few inches off until the plane lifts off, and on landing, I try to hold the nose wheel off until I am as slow as possible. Raising the flaps helps, but isn't required.

Hope this helps.
 
Bill Wightman said:
As the nose is lifted during rotation, the propeller will pull the nose even further left due to gyroscopic precession. Therefore, there will be a need for more right rudder as the airplane is rotated. Its just due to the gyroscopic effect of all the spinning mass on the nose of the airplane, and is quite normal.
Click to expand...

Exactly, Bill!!
Paul, it is a matter of simply becoming more is sync with your plane. Your rotation was fairly abrupt, which exacerbates the gyroscopic force from your propeller, hence the rapid deviation to the left.
There are several issues that I saw that need work, but I think that the key to solving your immediate question is proper and adequate input of rudder to keep the plane going straight down the runway.
Is there are good (RV familiar) instructor where you are? I think an hour or so of ground training and then some flight training would do wonders.
Good luck....
 
Sounds like you are starting to get it

It is not a digital experience with a lot of step functions. Infinite variables of rudder, elevator and aileron are available between the limits to use for controlling the airplane in various conditions (temperature, altitude, wind speed, wind direction, power, etc.). There is no set position of the controls that works for perfect takeoff centerline tracking every time. As others have said I too pull back the stick apply right rudder and aileron if needed as I apply power smoothly but all the the way to wide open throttle. The nose lifts off long before the airplane is ready to fly and I release enough back pressure to let it run on the mains until it wants to lift off. When it does fly off I use the elevator to maintain a modest rate of climb as the plane accelerates to the best rate of climb speed and as it gets there I tend to hold it at that general speed with elevator and typically I will be looking at something between 1,000 and 2,000 fpm on the VSI. You are probably a far better pilot than I am as you worry about the centerline - I think about it and input the right correction controls but my main focus is not hurting the airplane and getting airborne before I run out of runway - sideways or length wise.

Bob Axsom
 
Once rolling I begin to pull back but the nose doesn't come up for a while. When the nose comes up it is only another second or so before the plane is off the ground. I keep worrying about pulling too hard on the roll and getting airborne too early.
Click to expand...
Don't get too hooked up on all this - there's nothing drastically wrong with what you are doing.

To address the above, think "attitude" flying, not "stick position". You need to get familiar with, and achieve the "nosewheel just off runway" (visual) attitude. So stick back start of roll, as NW comes off stick as required to hold that attitude. If aircraft gets airborne prematurely you are holding nose too high. If you get it right, then at flying speed, add some back pressure and fly off the runway - we do not rotate!

Ditto on landing the nearer to the "NW just off attitude" you can hold, the better braking / visibility / resistance to sliding sideways in a X-wind you'll get. Hold this attitude (increasing back stick) until full back stick, thereafter nose will drop the last inch or 2. In a decent headwind, that will be at walking pace :)

HTH
Andy
 
The voice of Jack Hursche ...

I vividly recall my first flight with Jack. I was a very green pilot with both my PPL and instrument rating and was learning to fly a Champ with Krissy. One day she had to cancel my training slot so the flight director at the school stepped in. Jack had been a bomber pilot in WWII. The Champ had a battery operated intercom but it wasn't necessary when I did that first take off with Jack. "Who the #%*+! taught you how to fly!" when I replied "his instructors" he immediately required every instructor to get remedial rudder instruction in the Champ.

That lesson still rings in my head whenever the plane isn't headed where it should be. Jack's point was simple - "the rudder pedals are there for a reason". Granted the Champ has more issues than your RV-7A but the lesson still helps.

A little practice and don't "fear the rudder". Add a little and see how it feels. If needed, add some more. Pretty soon you'll get comfortable with how much rudder is needed to clean up the take-off roll.

If you're a bit nervous, an hour with an instructor gives you another point of reference and direct feedback. A good CFI is one of my best resources for ironing out skills!
 
Your takeoff didn't look all that bad...

...to me. You held the line pretty consistently until rotation. Seems to me that's when the nose yawed left but I saw a correction, then another yaw, like you're "pumping" the rudder, then letting up....and therein lies the problem...hold the rudder so that the nose is pointing straight down the runway, until you can no longer see it. Then look to the horizon and use a reference of some sort to check the yaw.

If you think a -7 needs a lot of rudder, you ought to try a -10!

I kinda think that when you start to use your left hand to rotate, that you're forgetting about your right foot!

Practise,
 
Pmerems said:
Gents,

I don't believe I am getting the nose off the ground soon enough. I start my roll with neutral stick position. Once rolling I begin to pull back but the nose doesn't come up for a while. When the nose comes up it is only another second or so before the plane is off the ground. I keep worrying about pulling too hard on the roll and getting airborne too early.

Here is a video one of my recent takeoffs. Slight cross wind from the left (5 kt). Notice the drift after lifting off.

www.experimentalaero.com/Videos/takeoff1.wmv

Any advice?

Paul
Click to expand...

Nice video. Is there a good instructor you can work with in your area? One with RV experience would be ideal but any experienced instructor should be able to help with rudder control/rotation issues.
 
Pmerems said:
Gents,

I appreciate the feedback.

I maybe slow getting the hang of it but I indeed had transition training with very reputable instructors and it now time to fine tune my skills.

I will try the aft stick technique during starting roll tomorrow to see how that might help and kick in a little more rudder at the right moment.

Thanks
Click to expand...

It has been mentioned and here it comes again - start the take off with full aft stick and relax pressure as speed increases, rudder as needed for directional control, rudder application will change as speed increases. The primary reference is looking down the runway and keeping the airplane on track. The nose wheel will come off just a little during roll when you get the feel of it - rough field take off technique is good technique with the -7A. Just a bit more rudder as the airplane breaks ground and the drift will be killed.

Practice-practice-practice.....:)
 
Have to disagree...

Ernie,

If there's a cross wind and you don't correct with a crab you will drift whether in coordinated flight or not... it's no different than a cross wind landing. If you want to track the center line on take off you'll have to dial in some crab angle.

I don't look at the ball while running down the runway, but it's one of the first things I look at after rotation. How else do you know if you've corrected enough for P-factor and engine torque??

Tom
 
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Get on that rudder!

There are now several generations of flight instructors who have never been in a tailwheel airplane and as a consequence actually believe that the rudder pedals are not to be used in flight. I have buddy who has a 9A that seems to share this attitude. I recently worked with him on full stalls (stick held full back after the break). Even fully stalled, he would instictively raise a low wing with aileron. As most people know, this is a recipe for a spin in most airplanes. When I demonstrated use of the rudder to raise the wing, the guy seemed incapable of doing anything more than applying pressure to the pedals. I was watching them, and they did not move!

The fact is, you rarely need full rudder travel in an A model, but you must not be afraid to give it what is needed... up to and including full deflection if the situation dictates.
 
Jamie said:
Hi Paul:

An airplane at yawing at high thrust, low speed when chainging pitch is completely normal (for example, in a Cessna 140 you almost have to stomp the rudder when you bring the tailwheel up), but I'll tell you why I don't have this problem in my 7A -- it's because I don't rotate the airplane off the ground.

When I go full throttle I have the stick about 1/2 to 3/4 back and left or right aileron as cross wind conditions necessitate (and of course rudder to track straight down the runway). As I accelerate and the nosewheel starts to lift (<30kts) I take out some of the elevator and accelerate with the nosewheel only slightly off the ground. I then let the airplane fly itself off the ground. I will typically hold the airplane in ground effect until 80kts IAS. That's just my personal preference as I like to use that airspeed for climb on cool days. On warm days I'll quickly establish climb at 100kts for cooling.

I would encourage ever RV-XA driver to go out and do touch and gos with the nosewheel never touching the ground.
Click to expand...

Jamie,
Your right on, I do the same.

I know this is a thread on take off. But when landing my 7A I have been known to dance on the rudder pedals to keep it straight down the center line.
 
One more data point

On my first few takeoffs in an A model RV I got exactly the results you are. I figured out that even though I thought I was clear of the brake pedals I was getting an ever so slight amount of right brake, when the a/c got light on the mains it yawed left. Made sure where my feet were before the takeoff roll and problem solved!
 
pierre smith said:
If you think a -7 needs a lot of rudder, you ought to try a -10!
Click to expand...

Really, Pierre? That's good to know. Do you roll in the throttle or just push and go? I found that I was too eager on the throttle with the -6A. Relaxing just a bit (we're only talking a second or two longer to full power) made it a lot less squirrely (that's a technical term, right?) in yaw and is easier on the engine.
 
Yep it takes more rudder pressure...

...than the two-seaters but I also fly a 700 HP Air Tractor and I often have to have FULL rudder and then limit my throttle advance to only what the rudder can handle, if there's a crosswind from the left.

P-51's and a lot of the high horsepower WWII fighters also had that characteristic....more yaw than the rudder can handle at high power settings too early in the takeoff roll!

The -10 has a huge amount of rudder authority and you can just go full out but you'd better be ready!

Best
 
pierre smith said:
The -10 has a huge amount of rudder authority and you can just go full out but you'd better be ready!

Best
Click to expand...

Yep.

And one more point, it takes air flow over the rudder to have control------less throttle equals less air flow.

Vicious circle, for an old taildragger pilot.
 
sight picture importance

As a low-time guy I can say my maneuvering near the runway was similar to Paul's.
Something I don't think has been mentioned; the pitch 'picture' is one component, but I also found that when I thought I was looking 'straight' ahead, I was focused on the spinner/cowl bump in the middle! ...needless to say, I was always crabbed a bit left.
As there is no nice line of rivets or cowl hinge line in front of my nose, I laid a piece of felt with a single line of white stitching on my dash. This reflects into the windshield just a bit, giving me a nice HUD of my aircrafts true longitudinal centreline.

My other comment; early in my flight training 30 years ago, I flew off a 150' x 5000' runway, and used much of the width on landings. My instructor saw the problem, and took me to a field with a 33' x 2500' strip.
PRESTO! suddenly I could track right down the centre ( no line even!) Funny how not wanting to mow weeds with the prop spurs one's lazy feet into action! Try it!
 
Bill Wightman said:
As the nose is lifted during rotation, the propeller will pull the nose even further left due to gyroscopic precession. Therefore, there will be a need for more right rudder as the airplane is rotated. Its just due to the gyroscopic effect of all the spinning mass on the nose of the airplane, and is quite normal.
Click to expand...

jetjok said:
Exactly, Bill!!
Paul, it is a matter of simply becoming more is sync with your plane. Your rotation was fairly abrupt, which exacerbates the gyroscopic force from your propeller, hence the rapid deviation to the left.
Click to expand...


You've got it backwards. If we're talking gyroscopics only, then pitching UP (with a Lycoming-turning engine) will cause a yaw to the RIGHT. This is why you need a little left rudder pulling to vertical doing acro. It's the pitch DOWN that produces left yaw, requiring right rudder - which is partially the reason you need extra right rudder when you raise the tail on a taildragger....or do a push humpty. If you were flying a CCW turning engine (Russian radial), the reverse would be true.

During take-off, the gyroscopics of the rotation itself will actually work against the other left-turning forces. It's just that the other left-turning forces - spiraling slipstream and propellor P-factor (two different things) have a greater effect. Plus, gyroscopics only exist for the brief moment you are raising the nose. By the time the wheels have left the ground, you've pretty much got your pitch set, so gyro effects are no longer at play.

Regarding the drift after takeoff, once you break ground, the wheels no longer control your drift, so any force you have not controlled will make itself known to a greater extent.
 
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Lack of...

hand eye coordination. You are probably just to old to be flying such a high performance airplane.:)

On another note...I'm back in Tucson...how about a ride!
 
Not enough rudder, get the other foot out of the way

Sometimes squirrelly directional control is caused by not being aware both feet are hard on the rudders. Add right rudder and nothing happens - the left foot is hard on the left pedal. This sometimes happens when things are a little tense.

A conscious thought to use one foot for rudder control helps - especially on take off where it usually is all right rudder anyhow.
 
Use of rudder

Best thing you can do is put in 3-4 hours in a glider, then you learn to use rudder real quick, or come to NZL and get ready for regular crosswinds 15kts and above, actually you may be being a little too sensitive with pedals, remember crosswind technique is a learned art , get some dual from a high time RV driver, dual instruction never hurts anyone.
 
pierre smith said:
...than the two-seaters but I also fly a 700 HP Air Tractor and I often have to have FULL rudder and then limit my throttle advance to only what the rudder can handle, if there's a crosswind from the left.

P-51's and a lot of the high horsepower WWII fighters also had that characteristic....more yaw than the rudder can handle at high power settings too early in the takeoff roll!

The -10 has a huge amount of rudder authority and you can just go full out but you'd better be ready!

Best
Click to expand...

Pierre,

Do you have rudder trim with the Air Tractor or the 10?

I do wish I had it with the 7A. I think about it a lot and it is on the airplane bucket list along with a few other items. The airplane has plenty of rudder authority, its just a matter of getting it right especially for take off. Rapid acceleration changes that effectiveness dramatically.

Seems to me I read a long time ago the P-51 procedure was full right rudder trim cranked in for take off. The RV's do not need that but the airplanes do have a wide speed range and the inflight un-trimmable rudder is hard trimmed for one speed and thats it. Except at that speed, the ball is not centered.
 
I would definitely suggest that to -10 builders..

....to build in an electric rudder trim tab, because my leg gets tired having to hold right rudder while I climb to 8,000-9000 feet!

No, the Air Tractor doesn't have cockpit adjustable rudder trim either....but I seldom get higher than 300-500 feet.

Best,
 
Jamie said:
Hi Paul:

An airplane at yawing at high thrust, low speed when chainging pitch is completely normal (for example, in a Cessna 140 you almost have to stomp the rudder when you bring the tailwheel up), but I'll tell you why I don't have this problem in my 7A
Click to expand...

Jamie - I hate to tell you this now, but you're 7A tailwheel is up as you taxi onto the runway.

:D
 
Eric, thanks for the correction. I did have it backwards... with positive (nose UP) pitch rate, the gyroscopic force will push the nose to the right, not the left.

Just goes to show that flying jets will ruin a pilot. :-0
 
Jamie said:
(for example, in a Cessna 140 you almost have to stomp the rudder when you bring the tailwheel up), but I'll tell you why I don't have this problem in my 7A -- it's because I don't rotate the airplane off the ground.
Click to expand...

You don't have the same problem in the 7A because as mentioned earlier, bringing the tail up in a taildragger causes a completely different reaction than rotating the nose up.
 
Aircraft Control

We all know that it takes right rudder to counter for torque and P-factor, but the "A" drivers also need to add more rudder as the nose wheel is lifting off, as there is not the friction of the tire on the runway to help track the center line, this can be relaxed as the airspeed builds and the rudder gains more authority. This is true of an RV and also true of transport aircraft.

If you know anyone needing transition training, I have a glass cockpit RV-7 that is approved for training. Also I "HAVE DAR, WILL TRAVEL"

Regards,

Gary Brown
 
garymail said:
We all know that it takes right rudder to counter for torque and P-factor, but the "A" drivers also need to add more rudder as the nose wheel is lifting off, as there is not the friction of the tire on the runway to help track the center line...
Click to expand...

Disagree that the -A models need more right rudder than the TW models when the nosewheel is lifted. In the trikes and TW models, you can either raise the tail or lift the nose almost as soon as full power is in. So in either case, the friction of having 3 wheels on the ground can be eliminated very early in the takeoff roll. So the question becomes which model is more stable not only during the pitch change that either raises the tail or raises the nose, but also which is more stable after the pitch change has been made and the plane is making the takeoff run on two wheels.

I think the TW models will always need more right rudder than the -A models, since the act of raising the tail will cause a gyro yaw to the left...compounding the left turning forces of corkscrew propwash and P-factor. "Torque" is usually incorrectly mentioned as a left-turning force. The only way true torque could cause a left turn is due to more weight being applied to the left tire. It's real, but it's slight, and not what most mean when they generically mis-use the term "torque".

Raising the nose on a trike will slightly go against these two left turning forces, since there's gyro yaw to the right. And due to CG and gear placement, the trike will naturally want to go more straight ahead compared to the taildragger that is much more directionally sensitive to these forces.
 
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More P-factor

exists with conventional gear until the tail is raised for the same reasons you have more P-factor in a climb than in level flight...
 
Takeoff drift solved.

Gents,

Thanks for the input. After reviewing all the comments and reviewing my cockpit videos I believed I found out what I was doing wrong.

Someone mentioned I might be dragging the right brake inadvertently. This could have been a possible cause.

I also noticed from the videos (camera captures sound) that I was very slow at applying full power (fear of loosing directional control and drifting rapidly, happened during transition training). So if I applied power more rapidly when in the beginning of my takeoff role I thought I just might have more airflow over the rudder and elevator and get better control.

I went out and flew a few times since I posted, made sure my big feet (12) were only on the rudder pedals and applied power more rapidly. I was amazed how it corrected the problem. Additionally since I had more airflow over the elevator I was able to get the nose us much earlier in the roll and didn't get the jerked into the air feeling when the mains left the ground.

I now feel much more confident and comfortable with my takeoffs. The rudder/brake pedal geometry is such that when you apply right rudder the brake pedal tilts towards your foot. This may cause inadvertent application of the brake during rudder input. I will be adding rudder pedal extenders (fuel line split and wrapped around the rudder pedal tubing-I have one layer but will add another) to add additional spacing to help keep my feet further away from the brake pedal.

The video camera (MD80) is really helpful for me to review takeoffs and landings to see if what I remember is really the way it happened. I get 50 minutes of video which can capture a lot.

I hope this helps others.
 
This is one of the big things I had to re-learn during my time with Mike Seager.

For 20 years I flew a plane that had to have the power applied s l o w l y....

Now, on the 10, I give it about 1/3 throttle, and if the engine does not stumble, all the way in ------ all in less than 2 seconds.

Glad you are making progress on the issue, keep at it.
 
Takeoffs

Am I the only one who finds it a bit odd that takeoffs are a bit more challenging in RV's? Not "hard" per se, but ya gotta get used to it. Any other airplane I've flown (C-152, C-172, C-182, PA-28 Arrow, PA-18 SuperCub) seems to have landing as the touchy phase, but I almost think my RV6 (and the RV7 I trained in with Mike Seager) are touchier in takeoff. I assume it is the relatively higher power to weight ratio in the RV's. The Arrow had more power at 200hp, but flew a bit like a pig due to weight (I forget the empty... a few years ago, but clearly more than a 2 place RV).

Mike taught me to "dance" on the rudder pedals during the takeoff run (my word, not his). He had a great drill where he did the takeoff, and I just rested my feet to feel what he was doing. It was a succession of quick and shallow stabs on the rudder pedals in anticipation of the nose coming off the centerline. I remember it being odd that I felt him working the pedals while the nose tracked straight as an arrow. I did a checkout in the local club's 182 shortly after training with Mike, and the CFI freaked out that I was all over the rudder during takeoff and landing! :p
 
I did mention I dance on the rudder when landing, well I found that I dance on take off as well. For throttle imput, I have a certain way that I slowly but steadly put the throttle in, I was tought that from the cessnas as well. I was always told not to slam it forward, but a nice steady apply.

One thing that happens when I take off, the prop digs in about 200ft down the runway. I think thats when the oil pressure sets the prop, I notice it when by myself the most, it's kind of cool, it's like a minie turbo boost.
 
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If you value your nosewheel and in turn your plane, it pays to be nice to your nosewheel. I think it was Van himself who commented something to the effect that the nosewheel is there as a device for taxiing not flying. In other words, if the plane is anywhere close to flying speed, the nosewheel should not be involved.

My takeoffs start with my heels on the floor, the balls of my feet on the bottom bar of the rudder pedal (remember they are toe brakes NOT foot brakes), full up elevator, smoothly apply full power (typically in 5 seconds or so), the nosewheel unsticks below 50 knots, I relax back pressure and let the plane roll on the main gear until it flies off on its own. Using this method, there is no additional back pressure for rotation required. Nothing is sudden or jerky, it's all a very smooth and quick (because the RVs have such high power to weight) process of getting into the air. Once airborne, I start rolling in down trim to get to my cruise climb speed of 120 kts.

One key element is that, prior to the takeoff, the elevator trim is unchanged from the last landing when I had it trimmed for an approach speed of 65 kts. This contributes greatly to the plane wanting to fly right off the ground at 65 kts., so I just make sure it happens without any additional back pressure.

The rudder pressure is applied as necessary to track the centerline. Take charge. Put the plane where you want it. After 700 hrs. in my -7A, this method works very much to my liking. I agree with Vans in that the nosewheel is adequate for its purpose if properly used.

Give it a try. Good luck,

Mike
 
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