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New MGL XTreme EFIS is shipping !

R

Rainier Lamers

Well Known Member
It is with great pleasure that I can today announce that we have completed final environment and flight testing of our new, low cost baby EFIS and that the first shipment on these units will be leaving our factory today.

XTreme.jpg

http://www.MGLAvionics.co.za/Docs/XTreme.pdf
http://www.MGLAvionics.co.za/Docs/XTreme Dimensions.pdf

As with our other EFIS systems, firmware is updatable via SD card from free downloads.
The first firmware release includes the following features:
Full primary flight panel (alt, asi, vsi, AHRS, winds aloft etc)
Full engine monitoring panel including peak leaning (user configurable)
Many support functions like flight logs, timers etc.

Some of the functions may need additional hardware like the SP-2 compass, SP-4 AHRS and one of the RDAC engine monitoring systems.

Functions to be added in the next firmware releases:
GPS based pseudo AHRS (intended for VFR or as additional AHRS reference to a gyro based system).
Navigation using the built in GPS (goto, routes/flight plans etc). Compatible with MGL navidata format which includes ability to manage your own data or sourced from free or subscription products including Navaid, FAA/NACO, Jeppesen, PocketFMS.
Autopilot system (based on the system used in our larger EFIS units).

The XTreme is an ideal choice as a primary EFIS for smaller panels or a backup EFIS to a larger system. The EFIS is easy to install, fitting into a standard 3.1/8" instrument hole with a very shallow depth requirement. Its very low weight does not require the use of brackets or other structural elements. Attachement of pitot and static ports is via standard 1/8" NPT fittings.

Please contact your local MGL distributor for pricing and availability.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Hello Rainier,

The docs say there is a CAN comm port built in. What is it going to be used for? Will you be able to swap screens across two Xtremes in the future?
 
rvator51 said:
Hello Rainier,

The docs say there is a CAN comm port built in. What is it going to be used for? Will you be able to swap screens across two Xtremes in the future?
Click to expand...

The CAN interface will be used for our new range of RDAC (engine monitoring systems) and AHRS/Compass systems that are currently in development as well as interface to MGL Servos for the autopilot.
As yet there is no plan (or need) to swap screens between units. The XTreme is not intended to compete or replace our larger systems and never will, it simply does not have enough computational resources to do fancy moving maps, synthetic vision etc.
Firmware updates that are planned for the very near future for the XTreme are:

Most urgent:
GPS based navigation using the built in GPS (direct to, routes) with Navidata compatibility (i.e. compatible with the navigation database used for our larger EFIS systems).

Less urgent:
Basic moving map functionality.
Integration of the MGL autopilot from our larger EFIS systems (support for MGL servos only).
Support for Rotor craft.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Firmware Timeframe

Rainier,

What is the timeframe for the firmware upgrade with navigation?
A couple of us were discussing the XTreme at our monthly EAA meeting last night. We were somewhat disappointed in the US pricing as we expected it to be sub-$1000 (like around $900).
 
gpiney said:
Rainier,

What is the timeframe for the firmware upgrade with navigation?
A couple of us were discussing the XTreme at our monthly EAA meeting last night. We were somewhat disappointed in the US pricing as we expected it to be sub-$1000 (like around $900).
Click to expand...

I will certainly pass your comments on the pricing on to Matt at MGL Avionics U.S.A - just had a look at their website, the base price is $1150.00.
I recon there is a good chance for a sub $1000 price soon, our biggest problem at the moment is a low U.S. dollar vs. the South African Rand which is currently a very strong currency (so our exports tend to be more expensive than they should be). If I hazzard a guess (and don't bank on it), I think the South African Rand will slide towards R10.00 to the USD after the Soccer World Cup is over and done with (it ranges between about R7.50 and R7.80 currently). That will ease pressure on Matt...

OK, so now for the time frame:

There is no time frame.

Jokes asside, I don't give time frames for software as it is very difficult to predict with any kind of certainty. However, I can tell that a lot of effort is going into this now and I will want to see full GPS navigation and Navidata compatibility before we go live with Jeppesen - and that is not that far off...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Can the software handle and if so is it anywhere on the drawing board to have it work with the vertical power VP-X?
 
gpiney said:
Rainier,

What is the timeframe for the firmware upgrade with navigation?
A couple of us were discussing the XTreme at our monthly EAA meeting last night. We were somewhat disappointed in the US pricing as we expected it to be sub-$1000 (like around $900).
Click to expand...

Well, I asked Matt if he can do something about the price and the result is that the XTreme is now available at an introductory price of $1000. This compares quite reasonable with our local ex-factory price and, considering all of the costs of getting the thing to the U.S. and supporting it (more than you think) it's not bad at all. What happens to this price for the future is going to be very dependent on the exchange rate of the USD to the South African Rand.

As an aside, the XTreme has the same screen size as the Garmin Aera and Av8or so they make nice companions.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
I'm starting to consider this unit for an upgrade to my 4 .

With the present firmware , is there any attitude information available or is that in the future ?

I'm wondering how how usable the MFD would be with a small screen size . I would consider keeping a steam ASI and altimeter and ditch all the engine instruments .

Marc
 
My understanding is that attitude information is currently available if you also buy one of the MGL AHRSs to supply it with attitude data.

A future update is to add the GPS based psuedo AHRS capiblity for VFR flight.

Probably would work great as an engine monitor/EFIS in a RV-4. I have the Dynon D-10a EFIS and EMS-D10 smaller engine monitor screen in my RV-4 and they work great. (Do have to use my reading glasses though for my aging eyes cause the panel is so close)
 
777drvr said:
I'm starting to consider this unit for an upgrade to my 4 .

With the present firmware , is there any attitude information available or is that in the future ?
Click to expand...

Attitude is one of the basic PFD functions and is supported. You simply select if you want to use a "real" AHRS or the GPS Flightpath based AHRS estimation.

I'm wondering how how usable the MFD would be with a small screen size . I would consider keeping a steam ASI and altimeter and ditch all the engine instruments .

Marc
Click to expand...

The screen size is not too bad at all - very usable in my option and quite a bit larger than the XTreme's direct competition (and it's high resolution too).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
rvator51 said:
My understanding is that attitude information is currently available if you also buy one of the MGL AHRSs to supply it with attitude data.

A future update is to add the GPS based psuedo AHRS capiblity for VFR flight.
Click to expand...

The GPS based Flightpath attitude estimator is part of the first release and related text should be in the manual by end of the week.
So, XTreme attitude is "full house" for the first release.

Probably would work great as an engine monitor/EFIS in a RV-4. I have the Dynon D-10a EFIS and EMS-D10 smaller engine monitor screen in my RV-4 and they work great. (Do have to use my reading glasses though for my aging eyes cause the panel is so close)
Click to expand...

The XTreme display has quite a bit more surface area and is high resolution.

As an aside, I should perhaps reveal that there will be another instrument in the XTreme form factor released in the very near future. It is the Engine monitor variant and it will be called the "E4", in direct lineage to our other engine monitors. As this variant does not need the expensive pressure sensors and related electronics, it can be quite a bit cheaper...
So, if you're looking for a PDF or PFD/Engine monitor combo, the XTreme is the ticket. If you just need a nice color screen Engine monitor, hang in there - we're working on it...

Rainier

CEO MGL Avionics
 
Rainier Lamers said:
If you just need a nice color screen Engine monitor, hang in there - we're working on it...
Click to expand...

WOOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!! That's what I'm waiting for! I have a small panel and a very basic day only vfr panel and I want to clean it up the misc scattered gauges with an EMS. Looking forward to it!
 
Good news about the GPS based attitude info . This unit has moved into the front running now if doesn't require the AHRS for day VFR style flying .

Is the screen higher resolution than other small units presently available ?

It's a little bit of a hassle that the mounting is offset if I want the instrument to be centralized in the 4's panel . I'll probably have to make a face plate.

Any idea how long the special price will last ? I'd love to actually have some hands on at Oshkosh before committing.

Marc
 
Rainier Lamers said:
The GPS based Flightpath attitude estimator is part of the first release and related text should be in the manual by end of the week.
So, XTreme attitude is "full house" for the first release.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify...

Does the XTreme have a built-in solid-state gyro, or will you need an external AHRS module or GPS to provide that data?

If you give it a GPS feed (from an AERA, for example), how does the EFIS determine horizon? Does it "guess" based on heading changes?
 
Snowflake said:
Just to clarify...

Does the XTreme have a built-in solid-state gyro, or will you need an external AHRS module or GPS to provide that data?

If you give it a GPS feed (from an AERA, for example), how does the EFIS determine horizon? Does it "guess" based on heading changes?
Click to expand...

The XTreme does not have a built in gyro.
It uses either the standard SP-4 or SP-5 high performance AHRS systems if you need to use a "real" AHRS. You may have noticed that one esteemed player in the field has moved from internal to external AHRS - there is a reason for that...

The XTreme has a built in GPS, it does not need an external GPS (the price includes an external antenna). We cannot use an external NMEA GPS to work out attitude in the way we are doing this. For this we need far tighter integration with the GPS system (we use a very high performance 50 channel Swiss made system), fast measurements and access to GPS related data that is not available via NMEA based communications.
Seriously, if you fly this system (in GPS "attitude" mode) you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between a real AHRS and the GPS derived one...
This is not a toy - this is the real stuff.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
777drvr said:
Good news about the GPS based attitude info . This unit has moved into the front running now if doesn't require the AHRS for day VFR style flying .

Is the screen higher resolution than other small units presently available ?

It's a little bit of a hassle that the mounting is offset if I want the instrument to be centralized in the 4's panel . I'll probably have to make a face plate.

Any idea how long the special price will last ? I'd love to actually have some hands on at Oshkosh before committing.

Marc
Click to expand...

The reason for the offset housing is to make it more feasible to install in an existing panel. if the housing would be centered the instrument would cover three traditional "holes" (the outer ones partialy). To prevent that we moved the housing to the side so it covers only two holes.

The screen resolution is very high for the size of display and larger than that of any similar device out there. But, as I have wrote many times in the past, screen resolution is not a great factor provided the size of a pixel is below a certain area and that depends on your viewing distance. There are many other, more important issues when it comes to choosing a display suitable for outdoor and sunlight use.

No idea on how long the intro special price will last. This price is cutting it pretty fine - it will be highly sensitive to the exchange rate between the USD and the South African Rand. We expect the South African Rand to fall significantly after the Soccer World cup is over as it is currently quite a bit overvalued and this makes our exports a tad expensive.
So, best I can offer is: Hold thumbs...

We showed an early prototype at last years Osh and the comments regarding display quality where excellent throughout.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Ordered

I just ordered mine without an AHRS. Rainier, with the sophistication of the new GPS derived "attitude", will this obviate the need for an AHRS with the future autopilot functionality?
 
ksauce said:
I just ordered mine without an AHRS. Rainier, with the sophistication of the new GPS derived "attitude", will this obviate the need for an AHRS with the future autopilot functionality?
Click to expand...

I don't yet have an autopilot that can fly only on GPS, without any form of gyros, I'm thinking about it - it would be possible to do this for aircraft that have a relatively high amount of natural stability (i.e. the aircraft can basically fly itself in calm conditions to moderate turbulence). Performance compared to a gyro based solution would be degraded and it would behave similar to a "normal" autopilot.
Our current autopilot solution (the current Enigma/Voyager/Odyssey "neural network" based algorithm), the one that pilots are raving about, is very dependent on gyros for exact reference to actual attitude and attitude changes of the aircraft.

Well, we'll see - for now autopilot use will require a SP-4 AHRS with the XTreme, but who knows - it'll give me something to think about...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Rainier Lamers said:
Our current autopilot solution (the current Enigma/Voyager/Odyssey "neural network" based algorithm), the one that pilots are raving about...
Click to expand...

Without divulging any trade/state secrets, can you give a general description of the way your algorithm behaves? I do motion control for work, and I've often found myself staring at traces thinking that an adaptive gain algorithm might work pretty well. Our controllers allow us to vary the P and I gains as a function of motor speed, but this is a simple linear interpolation between min and max values.
 
And a more basic question... Just to clarify things , is the GPS based attitude giving pitch info ?

This is from the MGL USA website

"If you do not select SP-4 attitude sensor, you will still have a GPS-derived bank angle display, but with no pitch information "

Also , the first post of this thread said GPS based AHRS was to be in a future firmware release.

Just looking for clarification.

Marc
 
Hi
Can you give us an estimate on the time frame for the engine monitor before it will be released.I am looking and want to consider all options.Thanks
 
So, this EFIS display, at the introductory price of $1000, requires an optional AHARS unit to run the attitude and heading indications?!! How much will it cost us to be introduced to the AHARS?
 
777drvr said:
And a more basic question... Just to clarify things , is the GPS based attitude giving pitch info ?

This is from the MGL USA website

"If you do not select SP-4 attitude sensor, you will still have a GPS-derived bank angle display, but with no pitch information "

Also , the first post of this thread said GPS based AHRS was to be in a future firmware release.

Just looking for clarification.

Marc
Click to expand...

That statement is not correct. Pitch angle is included, as with the bank - it is a flight path based depiction.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Randy Erwin said:
So, this EFIS display, at the introductory price of $1000, requires an optional AHARS unit to run the attitude and heading indications?!! How much will it cost us to be introduced to the AHARS?
Click to expand...

We don't do an AHARS.

We have two models of AHRS, the SP-4 and the SP-5. Both are autonomous, unaided systems. The SP-4 is the lower cost (around $1000 in the U.S.) and the SP-5 a little over $2000. The SP-5 is roughly equivalent to certified Crossbow AHRS-500 systems in performance as it uses the same BAe systems designed gyros.
As compass we use the SP-2 which is quite inexpensive.

SP-2 and SP-4 are currently being redesigned. This is not going to have much of an effect on the price of the SP-2 but the price of the SP-4 is likely to go about 1/2. The reason for this is that we are basing the new SP-4 on newly designed single-chip three axis gyros (all three gyros in one chip) at much lower cost. This should be shipping by end of the year when mass production of the new gyro device is anticipated.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Rainier Lamers said:
Seriously, if you fly this system (in GPS "attitude" mode) you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between a real AHRS and the GPS derived one...This is not a toy - this is the real stuff.
Click to expand...
If I was using the internal GPS-derived attiude info, flying along straight and level, and then did an aileron roll (ie. the axis of the airplane doesn't vary it's path, the wings just roll around it) would the display show a roll?

If I were flying along straight and level and then flew into an updraft, where my pitch didn't change, but I started climbing rapidly due to thermals, would the display show that I had pitched up?
 
ksauce said:
Without divulging any trade/state secrets, can you give a general description of the way your algorithm behaves? I do motion control for work, and I've often found myself staring at traces thinking that an adaptive gain algorithm might work pretty well. Our controllers allow us to vary the P and I gains as a function of motor speed, but this is a simple linear interpolation between min and max values.
Click to expand...

PI or PID controllers are the backbone of any autopilot system and our's fundamentaly is no different.
When we set out to make an AP a year ago, we wanted an autopilot that can fly anything from an ultralight to a Boeing. I thought that is quite easy. I was wrong (of course I was).
Our first attempt had three settings for pitch. That worked OK for some aircraft, so-so for others, not at all for yet others and it was tricky to set up.
It was a base to start with. I quickly realised that a lot of setups where troublesome. First it is difficult for the pilot to setup and he needed to know exactly what he was doing - then, it might result in a setting that was OK for a given day - but tomorrow conditions where just different enough to need more tweaking.
So - two problems: Too many things to tweak and they where not flexible enough to change with the aircraft and environment.
I started to experiment with some form of feedback so certain things, in a limited way, could adjust themselves.
This was only partly successful but pointed the way.
The real answer is if you figure out why you as a pilot can climb into just about any aircraft and it takes you only seconds to figure out just how much to tweak the stick to get the desired result.
Ah, but you will say: "I have a brain, I can learn !".
So there is the answer: "Learing".

In software that is often done with "neural nets". Very simple in principle. Quite easy to apply to an autopilot - as long as it is dead calm.
Neural nets don't like "noise". Noise in this case is any change induced in the aircraft due to external effects (for example turbulence).
So, take another neural net system and let it learn about turbulence. Then another to learn about the difference between what the AP commands and what the turbulence causes. Then feed that back into the learning process of the first network. Add a few checks and balances. Now you're done. You have an AP that can learn how to fly your aircraft and adjusts all the time to what happens (within allowable regions). For example, it can gracefully allow the aircraft to deviate from target altitude in turbulence without trying to be stupid and adopt a "heard the aircraft mentality" - just like you would.

As a result we now have just one setting left - a sensitivity adjustment which really is only a guide to the AP and roughly describes the gain in the mechanical linkage from servo to control surface (and that does not change).

We're effectively doing this for both bank and pitch (but bank is different and much simpler - pitch is the tricky one).

It's gotten rather good, perhaps even a little uncanny, I've now flown this for many hours in our Jora development aircraft (which is a bitch in pitch due to engine loading/torque effects). Reports from many users are equaly impressive from a large range of diverse aircraft types (including RVs of course).

Right, hope this helps - there is some info on this in some research papers that I'm sure you can find with Google (look for UAV autopilots). Short of showing the source code, this is about as much as I can tell you (and of course our most esteemed and valued competitors which I am sure are working on similar solutions - it just makes sense).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Snowflake said:
If I was using the internal GPS-derived attiude info, flying along straight and level, and then did an aileron roll (ie. the axis of the airplane doesn't vary it's path, the wings just roll around it) would the display show a roll?
Click to expand...
No, you would need a gyro for this. If your roll is 100% perfect the GPS derived picture would show level.
You need to get a turn rate to show a bank angle.

If I were flying along straight and level and then flew into an updraft, where my pitch didn't change, but I started climbing rapidly due to thermals, would the display show that I had pitched up?
Click to expand...

Yes, since that is the flight path.
I you switch any of our EFIS systems into GPS derived attitude you have the following text on the screen (right in the middle of the horizon):

GPS Flightpath
No attitude

As with a real AHRS, it takes a bit of practise to fly blind with it. The moment you understand what it is showing you, it becomes a tool just like any other in your cockpit. In this particular case (based on my own experiments), the use of airspeed is required to ensure that you are in fact not close to the stall regime. A simple "ball slip" indicator should also form part of your system so you can keep things coordinated.
The GPS derived attitude should not be understood to work in all aircraft attitudes either - if you are upside down the GPS would not know, and in all likelyhood loose lock on the sattelites as your antenna would be upside down.

Nevertheless, say you keep things not worse than +/-60 degrees and avoid slipping and keep the speed normal - you have a very usuable reference.
Keep in mind that it is free. For nada...

If you need gyros - no problemo, we can help...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Rainier Lamers said:
No, you would need a gyro for this. If your roll is 100% perfect the GPS derived picture would show level.
You need to get a turn rate to show a bank angle.
...
Keep in mind that it is free. For nada...
Click to expand...
Okay, now I understand. Unfortunately I don't really like that solution... If it *looks* like an EFIS, it should probably *act* like an EFIS, in my mind. So i'd be wanting the AHRS unit as well to make it a full system. I guess it's nice that I could start with the GPS-only system and add the AHRS later though.

Thanks for the info!
 
Snowflake said:
Okay, now I understand. Unfortunately I don't really like that solution... If it *looks* like an EFIS, it should probably *act* like an EFIS, in my mind. So i'd be wanting the AHRS unit as well to make it a full system. I guess it's nice that I could start with the GPS-only system and add the AHRS later though.

Thanks for the info!
Click to expand...

Understand - but let's get back to that once pilots are actually flying this thing so we can get some independent views.
As for usabilty - it's perhaps more comparable to a normal horizon (i.e. a vaccum or electrical system) that is limited to maximum bank/pitch angles anyway. It's not intended to show attutude during aerobatics (and it can't) - but using it as a reference to keep straight and level or do a controlled turn - that certainly works XTremely well...

Not trying to talk you out of buying an SP-4 of course :)

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
I just placed my order.............

1. XTreme mini EFIS
1. RDAC X-D
4. EGT t/c
4. CHT t/c
20 ft t/c ext cable
16 splices

Total UPS shipping wt............. 1lb...........:eek:.........................:D


Oh, and remember the added feature of this unit.......... the RDAC mounts on the engine side of the firewall, and one wire passes through the firewall to the EFIS / EMS unit. ............:)
 
gasman said:
Oh, and remember the added feature of this unit.......... the RDAC mounts on the engine side of the firewall, and one wire passes through the firewall to the EFIS / EMS unit. ............:)
Click to expand...

Technically your fuel level sender wires (and possibly your fuel flow sender wires, depending on where you place the FF sender) also have to pass through the firewall (going forward), but it's still a huge reduction in conductors passing through. The RDAC is a win in my book. :)
 
gasman said:
I just placed my order.............

1. XTreme mini EFIS
1. RDAC X-D
4. EGT t/c
4. CHT t/c
20 ft t/c ext cable
16 splices

Total UPS shipping wt............. 1lb...........:eek:.........................:D


Oh, and remember the added feature of this unit.......... the RDAC mounts on the engine side of the firewall, and one wire passes through the firewall to the EFIS / EMS unit. ............:)
Click to expand...

UPS just arrived with the box.......:D I will open it this evening......:cool:
 
xtreme on the bench

The Xtreme and the rdac was set up on the bench for a couple days. VERY NICE! Screen readability was good- even in direct sunlight. The small screen will be no issue in the 3, partly because the panel is so close, but the also because the screen has good definition. Menu system is intuitive and programming fairly easy, as opposed to say an EI engine or fuel flow computer that if you don't have the book handy- good luck on trying to remember the programing sequences. Only nit on programing is fingers get tired turning the adjustment knob from the default RPM of 6000 down to a Lycoming number. I recall it went by 10's, and if you try to turn faster, it actually can move the setpoint slower than turning the knob a bit slower. Hmm? This crops up on other alarms as well, EGT's for example. I might have missed a shortcut in the manual.... but either way, not a big deal since this is something done rarely. (I'm assuming software updates won't wipe out setpoints!)

GPS lock, signal quality, etc.. was excellent, even indoors.

On fuel setup, I can't seem to get what I want. I am trying to figure out a way to have 2 fuel level sensors used and summed for remaining fuel, but also have a virtual fuel tank that the flow sensor removes fuel from. For instance, topped tanks, 27 gallons in the virtual tank, any flow through the meter gets subtracted. This number then is available as is also the number from the fuel level sensors. Why both you ask? I suppose I've grown fond of having more info. A EI fuel totalizer plus the factory level indicators in the Cessna provides a check against the other. Rainier seems to have the Xtreme set up to do either very well, but maybe not both? I'd suggest a third virtual tank, that the fuel flow meter would use.
I do have the old Piper analog fuel level gauges that could be remain installed, then use the Xtreme in virtual tank mode. But, given the calibration opportunities with the Xtreme and the level sensors, the Xtreme would likely do a much nicer job with the tank levels, so I'd just as soon have the Xtreme do it all.

Rainier, I think you've got a real gem here at an excellent price point. I appreciate whatever convincing took place to get the price down a bit in the USA.

best
 
If you use adjustments using the rotary control, notice the X1,X10,X100 that appears ? Just click the rotary control (push it) to select by how much to increase for every "click" turn.
The reason the control becomes slower as you increase the rate of turn is due to internal debouncing of the contacts.

Currently the total number of tanks that are supported are two (and one of them can be a virtual, calculated tank). Our other EFIS systems can go up to 4 physical tanks and 2 virtual tanks.
The XTreme's development roadmap has 1 virtual tank + 2 physical tanks as extention to the current system in the works as our basic RDACs support this.

Please be aware that you have the first released system in your hands. It is not the final system. There will not be a final system for a very long time. The XTreme's development has only now really started and user input like yours is now flowing in like a river. Our task is now to channel all of that where possible into the system without blowing it up.

One of the design briefs for the XTreme was "Keep it simple" as we have enough complex systems and we will try and keep the XTreme as simple to use and setup as is possible while still giving it a good set of features.
The XTreme (and it's future derivatives) is designed to fit in neatly between our smaller "singles" like the Infinity and Velocity series and the "big brother" EFIS systems. We had an obvious "hole" in our product line up and this is now plugged quite successfully.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

nomocom said:
The Xtreme and the rdac was set up on the bench for a couple days. VERY NICE! Screen readability was good- even in direct sunlight. The small screen will be no issue in the 3, partly because the panel is so close, but the also because the screen has good definition. Menu system is intuitive and programming fairly easy, as opposed to say an EI engine or fuel flow computer that if you don't have the book handy- good luck on trying to remember the programing sequences. Only nit on programing is fingers get tired turning the adjustment knob from the default RPM of 6000 down to a Lycoming number. I recall it went by 10's, and if you try to turn faster, it actually can move the setpoint slower than turning the knob a bit slower. Hmm? This crops up on other alarms as well, EGT's for example. I might have missed a shortcut in the manual.... but either way, not a big deal since this is something done rarely. (I'm assuming software updates won't wipe out setpoints!)

GPS lock, signal quality, etc.. was excellent, even indoors.

On fuel setup, I can't seem to get what I want. I am trying to figure out a way to have 2 fuel level sensors used and summed for remaining fuel, but also have a virtual fuel tank that the flow sensor removes fuel from. For instance, topped tanks, 27 gallons in the virtual tank, any flow through the meter gets subtracted. This number then is available as is also the number from the fuel level sensors. Why both you ask? I suppose I've grown fond of having more info. A EI fuel totalizer plus the factory level indicators in the Cessna provides a check against the other. Rainier seems to have the Xtreme set up to do either very well, but maybe not both? I'd suggest a third virtual tank, that the fuel flow meter would use.
I do have the old Piper analog fuel level gauges that could be remain installed, then use the Xtreme in virtual tank mode. But, given the calibration opportunities with the Xtreme and the level sensors, the Xtreme would likely do a much nicer job with the tank levels, so I'd just as soon have the Xtreme do it all.

Rainier, I think you've got a real gem here at an excellent price point. I appreciate whatever convincing took place to get the price down a bit in the USA.

best
Click to expand...
 
adjustment

Rainier Lamers said:
If you use adjustments using the rotary control, notice the X1,X10,X100 that appears ? Just click the rotary control (push it) to select by how much to increase for every "click" turn.
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
Click to expand...

ahhh...that makes sense.
I was making it go much slower than needed. I was distracted by the retractable cup holder on my computer workstation. One time I extended the cup holder and there was a shiny disc in there. I moved it before I put my cup back in place :D:D
 
nomocom said:
ahhh...that makes sense.
I was making it go much slower than needed. I was distracted by the retractable cup holder on my computer workstation. One time I extended the cup holder and there was a shiny disc in there. I moved it before I put my cup back in place :D:D
Click to expand...

Same here but then my cup fell though and I spilled the coffee so I put the shiny thingy back in (it was there for a reason !):D

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Question on eXtreme

Rainier,

Rec my unit a couple of days ago and have some questions

On the Horizon set up page there is a feature labeled GPS flight path. Option is on or off. This feature is not mentioned anywhere in the manual

The GPS puck has a rather strong magnet built in. Do you think it would tolerate being on the engine side of the firewall under the cowl?

I'm impressed with the unit. Good visibility. Easy set up. Very intuitive SW.

Thanks

Richard
 
638RS said:
Rainier,

Rec my unit a couple of days ago and have some questions

On the Horizon set up page there is a feature labeled GPS flight path. Option is on or off. This feature is not mentioned anywhere in the manual
Click to expand...

That's the GPS based attitude estimator that we talked about earlier in this thread. Switch it on if you are not going to use an external "real" AHRS.

The GPS puck has a rather strong magnet built in. Do you think it would tolerate being on the engine side of the firewall under the cowl?

I'm impressed with the unit. Good visibility. Easy set up. Very intuitive SW.

Thanks

Richard
Click to expand...

The magnet is not a problem and is intended for mounting the unit onto a piece of ferrous metal.
The GPS antenna should be mounted on a small piece of metal (something like the size of your hand is fine, not critical). It can be any piece of metal including aluminum. The GPS will work without this but adding this acts as a ground plane and increases the antenna gain and tuning.

The antenna should not be installed close to an engine (unless it is a diesel or turbine with self sustaining ignition). Ignition systems can severely interfere with GPS reception so a bit of distance is not a bad thing.
Also, don't place the GPS antenna close to any other interference sources like COM or transponder antennas and any form of digital instrument (including the XTreme itself).

The XTreme contains one of the best GPS receivers on the planet today but it will still degrade if it can't get a clear signal from the satellites.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Rainier Lamers said:
Also, don't place the GPS antenna close to any other interference sources like COM or transponder antennas and any form of digital instrument (including the XTreme itself).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
Click to expand...

What is the minimum distance from the XTreme?
 
gasman said:
What is the minimum distance from the XTreme?
Click to expand...

Generaly as far as possible from any form of potential interference source (i.e. as far as is practical - if you do this it will reward you with reliable GPS reception).

It works with the antenna placed directly on the XTreme but that is not good practise.
Energy from interference sources drops quickly as you move away, just a few inches can make a huge difference.

For an aircraft installation it is a good idea to mount the antenna where it will not be shielded from satellites that happen to be low on the horizon. The GPS is sensitive enough to be able to use those satellites and it's a good thing too as the XTreme can estimate your attitude from GPS reception - if you're banked steeply, it still needs to see as many sats as possible in order to accurately judge what your aircraft is doing in 3D space.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Hello Rainier,

I know the Xtreme shows a graphical representation of the EGTs/CHTs but can you display a digital readout of all of the CHTs/EGTs at the same time as well or can this be a future option?
 
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rvator51 said:
Hello Rainier,

I know the Xtreme shows a graphical representation of the EGTs/CHTs but can you display a digital readout of all of the CHTs/EGTs at the same time as well or can this be a future option?
Click to expand...

Currently you will see the readout either as max temp or scanned, i.e. every channels temp is shown in an alternating fashion.

I don't want to commit to any changes at this stage as there is still a lot left to do on the XTreme firmware with all the additional features we are now working on including navigation (yes, with Jeppesen database and full MGL Navidata compatibility) and of course the autopilot.

As usual with our stuff, nothing is cast in stone - if demand is there, it's possible and it makes sense - we put it in...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Hi Rainier,

Firstly, congratulations on bringing this new wonder-box to market. As usual, MGL is blazing the trail!

Secondly, thank you for your continued participation in this forum. Your answers show forethought and great patience as well as offering insight into the passion you have for this business.

Now on to a rather plain vanilla type of question... I understand why the display is offset to the right from the centreline of the 3 1/8" mounting hole. To have this form factor in a "centered" configuration would be an installation nightmare. Unfortunately I have space only to the LEFT of my standard instrument hole. The XTreme would be a fantastic instrument for what I want to accomplish, if only I could flip the display upside down and have it project to the left of the instrument hole. Do you have any solutions for this particular problem?

And lastly, one quick suggestion... Determining the amount by which the display is offset to the right of a standard 3 1/8" mounting hole requires some "figurin'". May I suggest the installation manual needs a "panel layout" diagram which depicts as a dashed line the 3.125" instrument hole and then provides dimensions from the top and bottom of the hole to the respective top and bottom edges of the XTreme, and from the left and right sides of the hole to the respective left and right edges of the EXtreme? I know this will send the mechanical engineers of the world into paroxisms of laughter as a result of using four different datums but the reality is that EXtremes are going to be installed, for the most part, by regular old Joe Builders. If they currently have a 3 1/8" hole in their instrument panel they want to know if the EXtreme will fit. Being inaccurate by a few thousandths of an inch won't matter very much.

Thanks again for your very helpful comments here, and for your constant revolutionizing of experimental avionics.
 
I have the XTreme and also needed to see where I could install it in my existing panel. I took a folder and cut out a 3 1/8 hole, slid the unit in and marked the studs and punched out for them. Set the unit in and traced out the face edge. Cut it out and headed for the panel with my template. Rainier needs to provide us with a full size sketch that we can print and cut out.

This would be a good hand out item at Oshkosh this year.
 
Canadian_JOY said:
Hi Rainier,

Firstly, congratulations on bringing this new wonder-box to market. As usual, MGL is blazing the trail!
Click to expand...

We try...

Secondly, thank you for your continued participation in this forum. Your answers show forethought and great patience as well as offering insight into the passion you have for this business.
Click to expand...
Just doing my job (OK, I'm having fun too...)

Now on to a rather plain vanilla type of question... I understand why the display is offset to the right from the centreline of the 3 1/8" mounting hole. To have this form factor in a "centered" configuration would be an installation nightmare. Unfortunately I have space only to the LEFT of my standard instrument hole. The XTreme would be a fantastic instrument for what I want to accomplish, if only I could flip the display upside down and have it project to the left of the instrument hole. Do you have any solutions for this particular problem?
Click to expand...
Sadly, no. We had to make a decision - There where as many arguments in favour of left than of right. So in the end we flipped a coin.

And lastly, one quick suggestion...
Click to expand...

I have forwarded it to the author of the manual. (Which happens to be my nephew Franz and he also happens to have designed the XTreme from scratch, not a trivial task - so this one is actually not my design - but it's MGL nevertheless)

Thanks again for your very helpful comments here, and for your constant revolutionizing of experimental avionics.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
In my airplane, I fly from the backseat and the instruments are in the front, meaning that I cannot reach the buttons on the instrument, would it be possible to use remote buttons?

thanks, Bruce Green
 
skybolt31 said:
In my airplane, I fly from the backseat and the instruments are in the front, meaning that I cannot reach the buttons on the instrument, would it be possible to use remote buttons?

thanks, Bruce Green
Click to expand...

No, unfortunately not. Such functionality is not planned for the XTreme.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
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