Aerobatic Training

I want to do some recreational aerobatics in my -4 but would like to get some training first. I had a couple hours training in an Aerobat but that was many years ago. I have been searching the web for a good place to get some introductory aerobatic training. I have read through a few sites but would like to get some references.

Has anyone taken the Wayne Handley program?

Would training n an Extra be most like an RV, or is the airplane used for training important - ie would a Citabria work just as well? My concern here is the "slipperyness" of the RV compared to a Citabria or Super D. (Edit: I read one post that recommended the Decathalon over the Extra because it is slower through the maneuvers - makes sense)

My -4 has a CS prop; is it important that the training plane have a CS?

Does anyone have any recommendations for aerobatic training schools? I would be quite willing to go somewhere for a week of intensive training that I could follow up with practice at home.

What other criteria should I look for in choosing a training school or instructor?

Whether you do it in an Extra or a Decathlon is just a matter of preference and budget. I'd actually recommend the Decathlon because it's cheaper, there are more of them out there, and the roll, pitch and yaw rates will be slower so you'll SEE what's happening more easily, as you noted.

And that's really what you want: to see the progression of each figure. The key to aerobatics is reference points. Knowing where they are, when to look there, and what to look for at any given moment. That's the only way you'll reach the point where you can self-diagnose errors, abort botched maneuvers in a timely and safe fashion, and improve from solo flying rather than just flop around the sky.

More important than the airplane, however, is the instructor. You want someone who's experience but also fully focused on your learning rather than showing you what an amazing pilot they are.

You hit on one of the major items to get used to when flying aerobatics in an RV, namely the ease with which you can overspeed the airplane on downlines. For that reason I recommend plenty of practice dealing with those nose-low unusual attitudes. You'll also want quality spin training, as many botched acro figures can end up in a spin.

I teach at and can recommend the training at Sunrise Aviation at KSNA. Decathlons, Pitts, and Extra 300 available there. You can also find good instruction at Attitude Aviation in the SF bay area. If you want something on the east coast, try Executive Flyers. I believe they're in Bedford, MA.

BTW, as you look for an instructor, keep in mind recreational acro is different from competition aerobatics. If you can find someone who's familiar with the characteristics of the RV-4 it would be helpful, but it's not a deal breaker. You'll want to consider things like whether you have an inverted fuel and/or oil system. Make sure you learn how to preflight the aircraft for aerobatics, check for FOD, etc.

I'd recommend flying with a fixed pitch prop because you have to manage the throttle to avoid overspeeding on the downlines. That won't be a problem in your -4 with the CS prop, but it's a good skill to have and it's a non-event to go from a fixed pitch airplane to CS, but it can be quite a challenge to go the other way. If you're already learning aerobatics anyway, why not learn the engine management as well? But it's not a big deal either way.

--Ron

A long time ago

I use to work at Chandler Air Service, in Chandler, AZ. They had programs where military, and government pilots would come there for unusual attitude training in their Pitts, and Great Lakes Aircraft. With winter coming on sooner than later, that might be a great December to January trip for you to go down to Sunny Arizona. They use to accomodate you with assistance with Hotels, and transportation as well.

Also with the extensive amount of Kit Planes in Arizona, it might be possible to bring your plane and train in it with some of their instructors. I got my private at Chandler in November of 1999, and moved away from Arizona in 2002, but when I have gone back to visit, it seems like they are still alive and well, and there is a great cafe (The Hanger Cafe) on the corner of their main hanger, so that makes food easier too.

Their website is: http://www.aerobatics.com/index.php

Kurt the VP of and Cheif Flight Instructor is a good guy and can fly anything - he would probably be able to instruct you in your airplane. Just an Idea!

My airplane

Thanks for the tip re Chandler, Mike. Training in my airplane is not an option for a couple reasons - the only control I have in the rear is the stick, and I don't believe I can stay within the weight limitations for aerobatics with two people in the plane. Even if I put controls in, and somehow squeeze in under the weight limits, the rear seat would be very uncomfortable for anyone over about 5' 8", and near impossible to manipulate rudder pedals.

I highly recommend Rich Stowell in SoCAL Rosie

Rich Stowell

Last week my wife and I travelled to Cascade, Idaho to take Rich?s Emergency Maneuver Training course including the Basic Aerobatic module. We flew 2 flights a day for 6 days. The weather was near perfect, with only a bit of smoke from nearby forest fires adding to the fun on one day. We used Rich?s Decathlon, however Rich will provide training in the pilot?s own airplane if desired. Rich has trained pilots in a number of RVs in the past.

Each flight begins with Rich discussing the purpose of the flight, the maneuvers we will be doing, and the control inputs required for each maneuver. This adds significant clarity to the flight and removes any surprises.

The field elevation at Cascade is 4,740?, so we climbed to 8,500? each day before beginning any serious work. We started with stalls and incipient spins, then recovery from unusual attitudes, and moved on to 1 turn Spins, Aileron Rolls, Loops, Immelmanns, ? Cubans, Wingovers, and finished up with Hammerheads and Aerobatic Turns. We also performed slips, experienced skidding turns, and worked on landing techniques. I declined most of the inverted flight portion to work on the aerobatic maneuvers that I would be doing in my -4 (it is not capable of sustained inverted flight).

I enjoyed the week immensely and recommend this to anyone who is looking to explore the aerobatic skill set. Be aware that the g?s will get your head a bit woozy, and a couple of times I felt a bit of nausea at the end of the flight, but nothing too severe. The max g?s we pulled was 3.5 at the beginning and the end of each Loop and Hammerhead.

Thanks to Rosie for the tip on using Rich. He is a great instructor, patient, and clearly focused on the student's needs.

akro instruction

I've flown with Wayne Handley and he's great. The Extra has a higher roll rate than an RV but is similar in slipperyness and has a constant speed prop. It's quite a fun plane to fly too. The sight picture is similar to your RV. Doesn't hurt to give him a call. Charlie

Seattle

Any thoughts/feedback on BruceAir based at Boeing Field? I am also looking to get some aerobatic training before getting upside down in my RV7.

Thanks,

Not sure how up to date this list is, but

http://www.iacusn.org/schools/index.php