Need help- engine problem

Ok, so the ECi kit O360 I built performed flawlessly on my newly completed 6A for the first 11 months. It then developed a pesky minor oil leak, which would leave some trails down the left side of the belly. We're just talking minor, less than a teaspoon from a couple of hours flight. I'd pull the cowl, wipe everything up, ground run for several 5 minute checks, spray with foot powder, then with magnaflux developer, still couldn't find any traces of leaks. Seems to only happen in the air. Did this again today and asked a knowledgeable engine kind of guy (works on volvo-pentas) and he noticed some oil on top of the #4 cylinder which looked like it could be making its way down and then leaking onto the cowl. We're just talking a film here, not a stream. Anyway, I cleaned this up so there was no trace, intending to reinstall the cowl and fly, then recheck. Just before putting the cowl back on, I noticed a couple of small dents in the #4 cylinder valve cover . Looked like someone took a punch from the inside and tapped it. Recognizing this was no good, I took off the cover and found that the spring which holds the shroud tubes in place (where the push rods go), had cracked and separated. As one side made its way from the top of the cylinder head to the bottom, it evidently came between the rocker and the valve cover, causing the small dents in the cover. This is piece LW-14995 in the O360 parts manual, if you want to refer to that. Of course the next question, what about the other 3 cylinders, had me removing those valve covers. When I removed #2, the spring was intact, but I could see a crack forming. Removing the hold down nut and then attempting to remove the spring, as soon as I touched it, it broke in two! @#$$$%!!! Same thing happened to the number 1 cylinder. The only spring I could remove intact was the #3 cylinder, and it had the same cracks!

Does anyone know of a history with this? The airframe and engine now have 115 hrs on them, with only 67 hours showing on the tach (microvision tach starts at 1500 rpm).

See the photos for info. The last photo shows the cylinder with shroud tubes in place, but no spring. The spring installs in the stud visible on the left, with a locking tab and nut.

I can just replace these of course, but something is up when all 4 fail in the same manner with no other engine issues. The nuisance oil leak appears to be from the shroud tube seal while under operation.
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Never had that problem with actual lycoming shroud springs. Are these "ECI -made"?

I have seen post about these here before....I am sure others will chime in....seems your not the only one.

Here is one such thread.

Hear me clear. If you have ECI retainer springs, they are all broken. Apperently ECI doesn't care enough to publish a service bulletin. Do a search for "retainers" and you will find lots of discusssion. Then fill out a service dificulty report with the FAA.

You are not the only one.

A friend of mine with a IO360, ECI cylinder had exact same issue with rather big dents in his valve cover. When he took the other valve covers off, all four were broken. The parts I believe are rather cheap but not a good feeling on a new engine. His was a brand new engine, which also has the bad ECI cylinder

Best of luck and sorry to hear it happening to you.

Personally I don't like this type of pushrod retainers either, the older style spring steel versions can be doubled-up which provides redundancy.

apkp777 said:

Hear me clear. If you have ECI retainer springs, they are all broken. Apperently ECI doesn't care enough to publish a serive bulletin. Do a search for "retainers" and you will find lots of discusssion. The fill out a service dificulty report with the FAA.

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Pretty bold statement. I replaced mine at 1000 hrs with Lyc retainers just as a precaution, none were broken.

ECI

ECI sent me new ones even though I had not used the new "old" ones with the problem. I would call them and ask them to send you new ones (at no charge), and I would guess they would do it. They know they had a real bad batch, but they say their new ones have fixed the problem. Please report back if you do contact them to let us know what happens.

Walt said:

Pretty bold statement. I replaced mine at 1000 hrs with Lyc retainers just as a precaution, none were broken.

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My 4 retainer clips procreated and became 16 with less than 50 hours T.I.S. I would rather sound a false alarm than see someone have a catastrophic event due to those clips. The quality difference between the ECI clips and the Superior brand that I replaced mine with was huge. I suspect that your clips were not made from the same tin can.

apkp777 said:

Hear me clear. If you have ECI retainer springs, they are all broken. Apperently ECI doesn't care enough to publish a service bulletin. Do a search for "retainers" and you will find lots of discusssion. Then fill out a service dificulty report with the FAA.

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Tony is right on the money. After talking with him about his springs, I inspected mine even before the plane left the basement with the new engine and found cracks in every one of mine AND that was on an engine that had not been run.

Yes, if you have an ECi engine with their retainer springs, at the very least, they need to be inspected.

Thanks for all the help

Thanks for sharing. Either I missed the posts from earlier or just clean forgot about it. Seems everyone who ever touched an ECi engine is familiar with the problem. Ordered 4 lycoming springs from AERO (1.62 each) and new lock tabs and silcone gaskets. At lease I've found the smoking gun for the pesky oil leak I've been chasing for 3 months!

trib said:

Thanks for sharing. Either I missed the posts from earlier or just clean forgot about it. Seems everyone who ever touched an ECi engine is familiar with the problem. Ordered 4 lycoming springs from AERO (1.62 each) and new lock tabs and silcone gaskets. At lease I've found the smoking gun for the pesky oil leak I've been chasing for 3 months!

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Tim, Do you happen to have the part number for the clips?

Yikes....

Considering their cylinder head issues and now this clip issue is there something I should be concerned about when ordering an engine built with ECI parts?

aarvig said:

Considering their cylinder head issues and now this clip issue is there something I should be concerned about when ordering an engine built with ECI parts?

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If you're going to let little things like that bother you, you might as well buy a glider.... EVERY manufacturer of "Lycoming" engine parts (Lycoming, ECI, and Superior) have had quality, manufacturing, and/or design issues with various products at one time or another. AD's have been issued against all three of them. We unfortunately have to take these "lessons learned" as they come, evaluate the issues to see if they affect our engines, and deal with them. With the low quantity of engines/parts in the aviation pipeline, they simply don't have the production volume that say, automakers have to "perfect" their products and get the problem percentages down to what we have come to expect in "consumer-level" items.

Paul

Having read the reports, I ordered 4 new springs last week.

Our engine has done 10 hours and has a slight leak on #2 rocker.......

However - when I changed them out today, these came out.



I think the ones I took out were built stronger than the Lycoming ones I fitted

Our motor was built in 2004/5, so I am wondering if these problems are of a more recent doing ?

Mahlon - if you are watching, I would appreciate a comment.... !

I have seen them break from all three major supplies(Lycoming, Superior and ECI) at one point or another.
They tell me the ones that are shinny are the ones that break and the dull or frosted appearance ones, like the ones in the picture, don't break. Seems like the shinny ones are brittle..maybe plated incorrectly?????
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."

Well, I got the disease too. Developed an oil leak and found leaks around the pushrod seals of #4. Pulled the rocker cover off and removed the shroud tube spring. Fell apart in my hand. 195 hours. ECi cylinders which are waiting to be replaced in the recall.

Yep...

When I replaced all 4 group B jugs (with 97 hours on the engine), all of them were in place, but cracked and broke on removal. They wouldn't have lasted long. In all other respects, my ECi replacement cylinders have been great.

The cost difference is small - suggest you go with OEM or Superior.

Part numbers:
Spring, Pushrod Shroud
Lycoming: LW-14995
Superior: SL14995
ECi: AEL14995

Lockplate, Pushrod Shroud
Lycoming: LW-12272
Superior: SL12272
ECi: AEL12272

Dan

Hydrogen embrittlement?

Just the mechanical engineer in me thinking out loud. Springs are usually made of higher alloy steels. Higher alloy steels are much more subject to hydrogen embrittlement from plating operations like alodizing than mild steels.

The cure is an extended post heat at around 350 degrees for about an hour. Suppose the post heat was omitted. Plink. Metallurgists please chime in.

LarryT
Larry Tompkins
N544WB RV-6A
W52 Battle Ground WA

Exhibit A.
Any materials guys want to analyze the fracture and what the cause might be?

Quality

Ironflight said:

With the low quantity of engines/parts in the aviation pipeline, they simply don't have the production volume that say, automakers have to "perfect" their products and get the problem percentages down to what we have come to expect in "consumer-level" items.

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I disagree. The parts have been designed, the engines have been tested, type and production certificates have been awarded based on an acceptable level of quality and reliability. The parts have been made for many years, they have production sequences written for them and (one hopes!) a quality control system that ensures the parts are made to the drawings using the approved production processes.

The difference in production volumes between aircraft part manufacturers and automotive part manufacturers is reflected in the component part price. And aircraft parts prices are much higher than automotive parts prices. The interesting thing is that if you look at the batch sizes, my understanding is that they are not very different, although the automotive parts manufacturers make many more batches than the aircraft part manufacturers.

So yes, the quality issues in aircraft part failures, especially engine failures, concerns me greatly because the increased price should assure the same quality as parts that are produced in greater volumes.

fl-mike said:

Well, I got the disease too. Developed an oil leak and found leaks around the pushrod seals of #4. Pulled the rocker cover off and removed the shroud tube spring. Fell apart in my hand. 195 hours. ECi cylinders which are waiting to be replaced in the recall.

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Follow-up:
Ordered new springs (lyc) and lockplates for all cylinders. Replaced them all this weekend. Three of four were badly cracked. One looks like it might have a crack starting on the edge. All had no "spring" left.

This appears to have resolved the pushrod seal oil leak. Looks like my mag cover gasket is also leaking (LSE on that side). Also found one cyl hold-down stud weeping and one case through-bolt weeping a bit.

read on the Cubcrafters forum

Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) NE-13-06 was issued on November 21, 2012. It refers to Engine Components International (ECi) Service Instruction No. 12-1 issued October 29, 2012.......
ECi is offering replacement parts at no charge if necessary. Please contact ..... (210-820-8100) with ECi if your have any questions or concerns.

And a subsequent post from ECI dated today:
By the end of next week the ECi service instruction should be posted on the Owner Support page of our website under 3rd-Party Support Documents.

This is the issue with the ECI cylinder clips supplied between 2004 and 2010.

Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing