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Demo ride?

jnjhirsch

Member
I'm shamelessly asking for a demo ride in an RV12.

Long time stalker of this site (even pay dues!) and very interested in the RV12.

I live in Baltimore and was wondering if someone within appropriate flying distance could take me up. I have good availability in the last 2 weeks of March.

I have a PP license and rent out of Martin State.

Still not sure if I want to buy or build. I'm now leaning more towards buying, because I'm tired of renting.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff
 
I can give you one if you want to come to Cecil County? Probably do you good to get out of Balmer anyway.
It’s going to be for sale soon and it’s a good one.
 
Wow, somebody's lucky day...

I bought my 12 from original builder with 48TT. Seller and I live in same state so no personal property or sales taxes needed to be paid. Now have over 400TT on this wonderful flying machine...
 
Wow! That was fast.

No, don't mind the drive at all. Next Wed or Friday would work for me. The week after is wide open, as well.

Jeff
 
The stick is light and very sensitive/touchy. As in it takes very little input with your fingertips, if your hand is resting on your leg, to make major changes.

You want smooth glassy air to fly it in, the wings are loaded at maybe 10 to 11 lbs per sq ft of wing surface. Moderate turbulence will bounce and spin you around pretty good, it's a very light, slippery aircraft.

Sometimes, it's very hard to get it to come down to land, without slipping the plane with flaperons down 1 or 2 notches on the Johnson bar.

The landing gear is light, don't beat it up, falling out of the sky. Use some excess speed, and the runway to bleed off excessive energy, if enough runway is left. 60 MPH has been working well for me, but I'm a student. I like soft landings.

There's very good suggestions here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=153887
 
I can give you one if you want to come to Cecil County? Probably do you good to get out of Balmer anyway.
It’s going to be for sale soon and it’s a good one.

Jeff, Dave is a good guy, 2nd RV12 and both are well built. If you end up buying his you would not go wrong and ask him to throw in the transition training needed for your insurance. Have fun flying with him.
 
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The stick is light and very sensitive/touchy. As in it takes very little input with your fingertips, if your hand is resting on your leg, to make major changes.

You want smooth glassy air to fly it in, the wings are loaded at maybe 10 to 11 lbs per sq ft of wing surface. Moderate turbulence will bounce and spin you around pretty good, it's a very light, slippery aircraft.

Sometimes, it's very hard to get it to come down to land, without slipping the plane with flaperons down 1 or 2 notches on the Johnson bar.

The landing gear is light, don't beat it up, falling out of the sky. Use some excess speed, and the runway to bleed off excessive energy, if enough runway is left. 60 MPH has been working well for me, but I'm a student. I like soft landings.

There's very good suggestions here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=153887

Hopefully there will be posts by others that have flown an RV-12 a lot because it is likely that they don't fully agree with the above.....

I don't find it touchy... I would call it responsive (like driving a sportier car compared to a 1/2 ton pick-up)

Moderate turbulence will make the rid uncomfortable in most any light general aviation aircraft. yes it has light wing loading (all LSA's do by definition, to meet LSA performance requirements). I have no problem flying one on most any day that I would be willing to fly any other lighter single engine gen av airplane.

An RV-12 comes down just fine when flown properly.

Touching down at 60? Knots?
Then my suggestion would be that you search for a different instructor.
 
From my October 19, 2009post:

?Flew N412RV
On Thursday, the 6th of August at about 2:30, Ken Scott of Van?s took me up for a demo flight in N412RV.

For the record, my pilot experience is rather limited, (less than 100 hr ? mainly Cessna?s), dated (soloed in 1983), and my last stick time was over a year ago in a TH-67. My goal is to have a fun aircraft that I would be comfortable with my kids using it to learn to fly. Talking with Van, reading the Sport Aviation and Kit Planes articles in addition to all the pilot reports here on VAF, all indicated that the 12 would be a good candidate for this mission. Reading and listening is however not experiencing. Would responsive be another word for twitchy? Would light weight be another way of saying flimsy? Would low fuel consumption translate to poor performance? After failing to get rides at Sun N Fun for the past two years (yes I do act slowly), I made the trip out to Oregon for the ride (and also for a family wedding celebration).

The day was overcast with some bumpiness. The fit (i.e. room inside) was better than a 172. By my calculation, the aircraft was near its max gross weight of 1320, and a significant portion of useful load was from the people in it ? we would not have fit in a 150. Take-off was with partial flaps. I can?t estimate the amount of runway used in feet, but it was ?not very much?. The VSI on the Dynon indicated 900 feet per minute with flaps up. Impressive. Forward visibility was good in the climb. The aircraft felt steady and solid despite the bumpiness ? not flimsy. We leveled off below the clouds at about 2000 ft msl and with a little less than full throttle (didn?t get the number) the airspeed settled at a comfortable 110 KIAS. Again exactly what has been previously reported. The view out was outstanding. Began feeling out the controls; it was simply amazing. The aircraft moved with the stick with very very very little delay from stick input to aircraft response and the aircraft?s response was totally proportionate to the amount of input. Tiny stick movement (pitch and roll) equaled slow aircraft movement (technically acceleration but that is for another day fellow gearheads). Large stick movement equaled fast aircraft movement. Center the controls and everything stops - now. Not twitchy at all. I think this would be great for my kids and me. The lack of delay between the input and the aircraft?s action made it very easy to be in synch, which in turn made it easy to control but without being boring. So that is what the difference is between responsive and twitchy: prompt proportionate controls. Who knew? Rudder? Same way. Low speed (i.e. stall horn blaring) retained the responsiveness of the controls but appeared (Ken flew this segment) to require more input for the same rate with the maximum rate being correspondingly reduced but still substantial. Stall was unexciting. Landing was unexciting. Roll out was again ?not very much?.

In short, my experience was just like what everyone else has reported. The only difference is that, for me, it was in first person. Now if I can just get over thinking about the $60K. That?s right, it is an investment not an expense. Yes, that is definitely it.

Dave?

I subedequently began RV12 120500, and am currently working on Section 32 at 2R4. A lot of life has gotten in the way.

So +1 to Scott?s comments

-Dave
 
Hopefully there will be posts by others that have flown an RV-12 a lot because it is likely that they don't fully agree with the above.....

I don't find it touchy... I would call it responsive (like driving a sportier car compared to a 1/2 ton pick-up)

Moderate turbulence will make the rid uncomfortable in most any light general aviation aircraft. yes it has light wing loading (all LSA's do by definition, to meet LSA performance requirements). I have no problem flying one on most any day that I would be willing to fly any other lighter single engine gen av airplane.

An RV-12 comes down just fine when flown properly.

Touching down at 60? Knots?
Then my suggestion would be that you search for a different instructor.

Don't know if you're familiar with Santa Ana winds in Southern California. Added half the speed to landing of the crosswind component.

A RV-12 is "responsive" compared to a 172. Everything seems to respond faster, climb faster, etc. I do also remember that "Sport" is in the definition of "LSA".

Scott, while most of your builders and pilots are former pilots, a few of us are LEARNING from scratch, in an RV-12. Perceptions vary. IMHO, and MHO only, it's quick in response. Certainly compared to the Cessna's I've flown. It's not a negative feature. You just get a lot of results from a little bit of input. Maybe "touchy" wasn't the best choice of words.

When you are new to this, moderate turbulence flying feels like a good jousting in an RV-12. Time and experience, hopefully will change that feeling. It's not good when you're in it, and you start feeling queasy, as was the case flying back from Copper State FlyIn.

First impressions, Scott, first impressions. I still have the RV grin.
 
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Randy,

Your lack of experience with other airplanes is showing a bit in your post. Some of the characteristics that you present in a rather negative tone are the very things that endear the airplane to the majority of ?12 pilots. True, it is a very responsive airplane with light control pressures required, but to desribe it as ?twitchy? or ?slippery? gives the wrong impression.

And, your advice on landing speeds might be OK if all you operate out of are very long runways, but generally speaking, carrying excess speed in the approach is a bad habit in any airplane.

John
 
DF Signature Series RV-12 On The Market!

It is not often a DF Signature Series RV-12 comes on the market. Anyone interested in an RV-12 should want to snatch this one up. I know Dave and watched him build this DF Series RV-12. With Dave's experience having already built one and being an A&P mechanic you can have confidence in the workmanship put into this 2nd DF Signature Series RV-12. Dave is very picky about his aircraft being perfect and he is honest to a fault. Check out the custom DF Series Corinthian leather seats, they are a dream.:cool: Dave is a Flight Instructor if you need some training in this RV-12 you can probably work out a deal in the purchase package:cool:

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I'm shamelessly asking for a demo ride in an RV12.

Long time stalker of this site (even pay dues!) and very interested in the RV12.

I live in Baltimore and was wondering if someone within appropriate flying distance could take me up. I have good availability in the last 2 weeks of March.

I have a PP license and rent out of Martin State.

Still not sure if I want to buy or build. I'm now leaning more towards buying, because I'm tired of renting.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

Buy it and enjoy. Take my good buddy Dave12 on his offer he is a short hop from Martin State. A class act gentleman and a skilled craftsman. Did a lot of work on my airplane.
 
Randy,

Your lack of experience with other airplanes is showing a bit in your post. Some of the characteristics that you present in a rather negative tone are the very things that endear the airplane to the majority of ?12 pilots. True, it is a very responsive airplane with light control pressures required, but to desribe it as ?twitchy? or ?slippery? gives the wrong impression.

And, your advice on landing speeds might be OK if all you operate out of are very long runways, but generally speaking, carrying excess speed in the approach is a bad habit in any airplane.

John

Which Randy?
 
Randy,

Your lack of experience with other airplanes is showing a bit in your post. Some of the characteristics that you present in a rather negative tone are the very things that endear the airplane to the majority of ‘12 pilots. True, it is a very responsive airplane with light control pressures required, but to desribe it as “twitchy” or “slippery” gives the wrong impression.

And, your advice on landing speeds might be OK if all you operate out of are very long runways, but generally speaking, carrying excess speed in the approach is a bad habit in any airplane.

John

Not my intent to imply it's negative. It is sensitive, in inexperienced hands. As to the landing speed, we were probably right a 1280 to 1290 # on landing, pretty heavy, less about 4 to 5 gallons of fuel.

Having come from motor cycles and mountain bikes, and seeing the same brand of grips from mountain bikes sitting there on the joy stick, my inclination, with a grip sitting there like that, is to grab a handful, not hold it between my thumb and index finger to operate. Perhaps that will help you with MY perception. It's a grip, yet it seems the RV-12 flys just fine with the touch of thumb and finger tip.

FAA has stated that the Sport Pilot License was designed to get more people into flying. Yet, from what I read, all it's been doing is getting PPL's that are about to lose their medical to switch to a SPL, so they can still fly on a drivers license. What I am seeing is schools teaching in SLA's because it's lowering their operating costs per hour, to teach.

Maybe I should just go look at a Kitfox 7 instead. I'm just not used to the stick getting mushy and a lot less responsive, going slower, yet... practice, practice, practice.

Another point... I live 4 miles N of KVNY 16, practically under the flight path in Los Angeles. Jet traffic is everywhere, here. I haven't flown into anything short... yet. It's very busy around here, in the air.
 
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Not my intent to imply it's negative. It is sensitive, in inexperienced hands. As to the landing speed, we were probably right a 1280 to 1290 # on landing, pretty heavy, less about 4 to 5 gallons of fuel.

Having come from motor cycles and mountain bikes, and seeing the same brand of grips from mountain bikes sitting there on the joy stick, my inclination, with a grip sitting there like that, is to grab a handful, not hold it between my thumb and index finger to operate. Perhaps that will help you with MY perception. It's a grip, yet it seems the RV-12 flys just fine with the touch of thumb and finger tip.

FAA has stated that the Sport Pilot License was designed to get more people into flying. Yet, from what I read, all it's been doing is getting PPL's that are about to lose their medical to switch to a SPL, so they can still fly on a drivers license. What I am seeing is schools teaching in SLA's because it's lowering their operating costs per hour, to teach.

Maybe I should just go look at a Kitfox 7 instead. I'm just not used to the stick getting mushy and a lot less responsive, going slower, yet... practice, practice, practice.

Another point... I live 4 miles N of KVNY 16, practically under the flight path in Los Angeles. Jet traffic is everywhere, here. I haven't flown into anything short... yet. It's very busy around here, in the air.

You're the guy that was an expert on Rotax gearbox and tuning last week but with very little actual Rotax experience as I recall. Perhaps a Kitfox would suit you very well indeed...
 
Hard to beat the RV-12, it is a dream machine!

Click on image to see an RV-12 landing at S37 and KPTW::eek:
Jane has almost 1000 hours on her and she is a dream to fly. Can't say enough about the RV-12 and their capabilities as an economical ship. Sipping MOGAS at 5 or less gal/hr. Cruise easily at 120 knots. Last year Jane's 6th trip back from Oshkosh she did it in 5 hours one stop back to the Philadelphia area. As you can see I fly Jane year round. Oh and being an ELSA anyone can get their Repairman Certificate with a weekend ground course and can then do the Annuals on their RV-12. Woohoo!:cool:
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You're the guy that was an expert on Rotax gearbox and tuning last week but with very little actual Rotax experience as I recall. Perhaps a Kitfox would suit you very well indeed...

:rolleyes: :D Glad I don't believe everything I read on the internet, or on the boob tube, or in the newspaper.

The gearbox is a problem, looking for a solution. I'm all ears from you on what the cause is, failure analysis, and prevention.
 
Successful Demo Ride!

After action report: First flight in an RV-12.

I just wanted to thank Dave Farmer again for being so generous with his time and airplane and giving me a demo ride in his RV-12. The second one he has built.

I would also like to add my two cents on some topics that arose in this thread, since I now have slipped the surly bonds of earth in both the C-172 and RV-12.

Bottom line, RV-12 wins.

Let?s start at the beginning of the flight experience. After opening the hanger door, I watched Dave attach the tow bar the nose wheel and I offered to help pull the airplane out of the hanger. He kind of chuckled and said, ?I got this?. I know from experience that pulling a 172 out of the hanger is always easier with two people. However, he pulled the RV-12 out of the hanger like he was pulling a Red Racer Wagon, maybe ladened with a case of beer. There was no strenuous body-leaning-at-45 degrees required for a Cessna, to pull this RV. This thing rolled out like a toy.

He showed me how to get in, a skill I had already learned by hopping into every static display RV-12 I saw at Sun-n-Fun and AOPA open houses?, but it?s nice to go over the basics every time.

Engine start, taxi and take off checks seemed to happen quickly and before I knew it we were lining up on the runway and going full power. Cockpit noise was definite at or below C-172 levels. Takeoff run was well below C-172 levels. We were off the runway just past the numbers and climb out was smooth. It was excellent flying weather. The smoke plume from the power plant on the way to breakfast plumed vertically into the sky. Dave engaged the autopilot for our climb to 4500 and we seemed to get there pretty darn quick.

On the way back, Dave let me fly for a while and I got my first real taste of what it?s like to fly an RV. The airplane seemed to respond with very light stick forces. To the point where I felt like I could rest my hand on my knee and fly by moving just my fingers, almost like a joystick. The controls also felt tight, in a good way. There was absolutely no slop, like I have felt in the C-172. I guess that is the difference between push rods and linkages, and cables and pulleys.

It was a real joy to fly.

Although, I can also see where there is a real need for transition training. My sight picture was off. What looked right seemed to have me climbing or descending. Also, I had no clue on what RPM I needed to be in different phases of flight. Dave handled all my transgressions of flight like a pro.

I am no builder, but the fit and finish of Dave?s RV-12 seemed professional grade, like that of a new automobile. If he told me that it was a factory build SLSA, I would have no reason to doubt it. Additionally, if there were any blemishes that all builders seem to only see when they look at aircraft they built, there were none that were obvious to me. Even the tablet device Dave installed under the Dynon, although it was clearly after market, seemed like it was meant to be there. The wiring was tucked away and out of sight.

I know Dave is going to sell this airplane soon. Someone is going to get a real nice ride. I just hope when I get all my ducks in a row, it?s still available.

Thanks again, Dave!
 
Very welcome Jeff, I enjoyed our flight and the my fellow airport bums enjoyed meeting you. Stay in touch pal.
 
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