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SUN 'n FUN Homebuilt Parking Change! & NOTAM

Eagleflip

Active Member
I am involved in planning for this year's SUN 'n FUN event, and wanted to relay important changes to the parking plan, changes that will allow us to linger, inspect and otherwise enjoy other folks craftsmanship.

Our former Homebuilt parking area was just north of the central (core) area of SnF, and this parking sat right under the lateral path of our showcase flybys--which are flown at 500'. Because of FAA regulations concerning flight over populated areas, the FSDO allowed us to park aircraft there but the occupants were not allowed to linger in that area after parking.

Naturally, we want to see each other's aircraft--comparing innovations and enjoying other people's build quality are some of the joys of what we do. We received a lot of well-deserved complaints in the past three years over the requirement to vacate that parking area during the flyby period, which normally takes place between 10 am and the beginning of the airshow, normally 1 or 1:30 pm. That's a lot of time required to be outside the area you wanted to be in. You made valid points, and we listened.

Our new Homebuilt parking area is evolving--and this year's efforts are part of a multi-year push to expand and enhance your SnF experience. This year's primary Homebuilt parking will be located on the south side of taxiway E, just to the east of Vintage. Overflow Homebuilt aircraft will be taken to the north side of E, just across from the main parking area.

The good news? This area is NOT inside the overflight clear zone, and you WILL be able to remain, linger, drool, covet, envy, inspect, polish, buy, photograph, and otherwise enjoy all of the other Homebuilts in the area full time, regardless of flybys or even the air show. This area is just for parking (no camping), and your windshield sign should read HB to get there.

If you wish to camp beside your aircraft, the normal Homebuilt Camping area has not changed locations. Use the HBC sign to be directed to that point.

We are rolling the area prior to the show to ensure smoothness. We will also compress parking spot distances to ensure we get as many aircraft into that area, but of course we will do so with the safety and security of your aircraft in mind. We don't move aircraft after they have been parked and positioned with the owner present.

Feel free to contact me if you have questions or concerns. Our job is to provide you a great experience at SUN 'n FUN, and I promise we will do our best.

Oh--and here's the NOTAM. There will be minor revisions, so be sure to look for those before you take off.

Fly safely-
Sam Huffstetler, aka "Flipper"
Chairman, Air Ops
757-329-6745
 
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could you post a airport diagram with the area marked. I don't know how far vintage goes east. is it the area north of paradise city where aircraft camping has been? not being shut down for the airshow is great, but I hope it not east of E1, thats a long hike.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
You know , with KLAL , Aka Sun N Fun only about 4 weeks away ,you would think they would update their web site . A lot on it seems to be 2018 including their fly in arrival procedure. ( and the HB parking map changes )

Thanks Doug for doing a great job in "running " VAF no other place like it.!
 
I will see if I can upload the parking layout and then insert it into a post. Will provide a graphic for you soon.

The SnF website looked updated to me just now. A link to the current NOTAM is towards the bottom.
 
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Here is the 2019 parking layout. “HB” stands for the home built area, and is red. “HBC” is also red, and stands for home built camping. As you will see these areas are further south and east of the previous parking area, and they overall represent the same amount of space that we had before.

The south area will be filled first and we plan on asking our customers to push their aircraft back tail to tail to increase our parking capacity in that area. We will help, but I know that towbars are about the only way to reliably guide an RV during a reposition to the rear! We will do our best.
3zBcpbB



Annnnd apparently I have not mastered photo insertion-fu yet. Still working on it.
 
Looks like long complicated taxiing. I guess I'll be driving in this year, unless there still will parking in the old HB area.

Finn
 
For the folks coming for a "short day", looks like a hassel

I have seen how those back taxiways clog up ---- trying to fly in early and get out before the airshow will not be easy ---- going to miss the "old way".

Ron
 
Sun 'N Fun Parking

I have seen how those back taxiways clog up ---- trying to fly in early and get out before the airshow will not be easy ---- going to miss the "old way".

Ron

I sure liked the old way better. I fly in daily, and except for two days, don't stay for the airshow. I need to be able to EASILY get large items to my plane (like cases of oil). The new HB parking will make that very difficult.

Maybe it's time to call it quits for this event (after 25 years of attending, this new parking may make it a show stopper for me).
 
"Back when", SnF was EAA sponsored, the Homebuilts had front and center for parking. I enjoyed that as well as watching the show from under the wing of my LongEZ parked with at least 50 others. All that has changed, as well as the reasons for sponsoring events like these. The commercial activity and public participation is the driver for most now days. Not surprised to see the homebuilts parked where they are this year and have been expecting that to happen at SnF now for a while.
 
I also think it time to call it quits for SNF. since the split from EAA its been heading towards nothing more than an airshow. less aviation vendors every year, more flagpole vendors, ladder vendors, jewlery vendors and pots and pan vendors every year. I like the idea of not being shut out of the area during the overly long airshow, having to park and taxi that far away kills it. maybe I can rent a 69 cessna 150 and park in vintage would be a lot closer that way.

bob burns
RV-4
 
Wow, that speaks volumes about the SnF priorities and pecking order. I was under the delusion that homebuilts were a central part of the show. Certainly the reason I attended for decades. Oh well...
 
I also think it time to call it quits for SNF. since the split from EAA its been heading towards nothing more than an airshow. less aviation vendors every year, more flagpole vendors, ladder vendors, jewlery vendors and pots and pan vendors every year. I like the idea of not being shut out of the area during the overly long airshow, having to park and taxi that far away kills it. maybe I can rent a 69 cessna 150 and park in vintage would be a lot closer that way.

bob burns
RV-4

That sounds exactly like what I started telling people about OSH, about 15 years ago. :)

FWIW, I used to park/camp a Swift in the Classic section, and I've parked a -4 in the old HBP area. I found it frustrating back when they split HBC and moved it so far east of Classic camping; it's a really long hike to virtually everything. I also found it frustrating to be run out of HBP for half a day every day, so I understand the motivation to move . I've never done the daily commute thing, but I have done the long taxi from both the Classic area and the HBC area. It's been a few years since I camped in HBC, but the two taxi sessions were nothing compared to the daily (or multiple daily) commutes from camping to the show activities.

SNF could make everybody happy (meaning me) if they'd move HBP & HBC to the west side of what's now Classic.

;-)
 
That sounds exactly like what I started telling people about OSH, about 15 years ago. :)

FWIW, I used to park/camp a Swift in the Classic section, and I've parked a -4 in the old HBP area. I found it frustrating back when they split HBC and moved it so far east of Classic camping; it's a really long hike to virtually everything. I also found it frustrating to be run out of HBP for half a day every day, so I understand the motivation to move . I've never done the daily commute thing, but I have done the long taxi from both the Classic area and the HBC area. It's been a few years since I camped in HBC, but the two taxi sessions were nothing compared to the daily (or multiple daily) commutes from camping to the show activities.

SNF could make everybody happy (meaning me) if they'd move HBP & HBC to the west side of what's now Classic.

;-)

You bring up a good point. Vintage is now 1970 or older, that covers almost the whole ga fleet nowadays. Maybe put hbp on the west end and set vintage up by decade oldest to the west. And putting the 60's and 70's 172's and cherokees on the east end out by E1. I just really feel that they don't even want the experimental group anymore. They just want the airshow and spam can crowd.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb
 
I understand your frustration over a big change to the status quo. For what it?s worth, taxi flows to and from these areas are actually quite simple and not much longer than what you?ve experienced in past years.

Let me be clear?SnF wants and needs experimental aircraft to attend the event. They represent the backbone of affordable aviation in America. I fly my RV down every year and enjoy hanging around my extended family. We are simply trying to fix an issue that has become problematic.

Remember that we have received hundreds of complaints over the past three years about the inability of builders to remain in the previous HB parking area during our showcase fly by period, as well as during the air show. By changing this parking area, we will ensure homebuilders have a chance to enjoy other?s work as well as display their own efforts. The distance from the core area to the new parking are is indeed further, and I apologize for that trade off. (If you have a heavy item you need transported to your airplane, come on over to the Air Ops trailer on the east side of the warbird ramp and request a little help. We have vehicles that can assist!).

This plan is but the beginning of a significant evolution to our campus layout. The parking solution for this year will change in 2020 and beyond?we anticipate a very nice long term parking solution that requires quite a few pieces to come together... but I believe you will like the outcome in future years.
 
Why is the downloadable Notam so hard to find?

Why is the Notam link on the home page going to a webpage and not the downloadable PDF, with no link to the downloadable one? I couldn't find the downloadable version on the Sun n Fun site anywhere but Jim Bedsole posted the link to it in message #6. Not sure why they try to make it so difficult, for something everyone needs.
Thanks Jim!

Here's a link: https://d2uowj5bno3yjz.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/19140650/2019NOTAMPublished219.pdf

I fixed the link it should work now!
 
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And, for all who are looking for easier transportation from the new parking site to the core (and elsewhere), we have five different tram routes (color coded) that will shuttle you. They're free, and you can carry on boxes of oil, new Garmin electronics, waffle cones and t-shirts to your heart's content.
 
Alt Transportation

And, for all who are looking for easier transportation from the new parking site to the core (and elsewhere), we have five different tram routes (color coded) that will shuttle you. They're free, and you can carry on boxes of oil, new Garmin electronics, waffle cones and t-shirts to your heart's content.

Nice to know it exists... But it would be much more informative if you could provide more data concerning the routes, color codes, and times...
 
Nice to know it exists... But it would be much more informative if you could provide more data concerning the routes, color codes, and times...

I?ll be glad to do so....can someone direct me to an image hosting site that I can upload pics to? My old site is no longer viable.
 
I've been flying in daily a couple times during the week for the last 20+ years. It's always been great getting out, especially when they were using 09 for the departures. Like Fred said, it was nice when you get oil & 2 wheel hand truck it to your plane. Now, it appears we've been pushed to the back seat.

The last 2 years, I've also spent time at HBC & was shocked at the location.
Big difference when you compare HBP & HBC at Oshkosh.

Times are a changing at SNF. :(
 
HdN5O3q.png


Sorry for the image size, but...you'll notice the red tram line that runs from the southeast corner of the core area all the way east to the new parking locations of Homebuilts and Homebuilt Camping.

The trams are free, the weather nice, and the hospitality genuine. Please come join us April 2-7th.
 
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I'm confused, which happens a LOT. Is the Homebuilt parking next to/near the WARBIRDS (Red Tram Stop #4) or across from the Volunteer parking - Yellow lot (Red Tram Stop #7)?

:confused:
 
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The new Homebuilt parking area is to the south (primary) and north (overflow) of tram stop 7, which is just north of the yellow lot.

In the big picture, our new location is just to the southeast of runway 5/23, which of course is closed for the event.
 
The new Homebuilt parking area is to the south (primary) and north (overflow) of tram stop 7, which is just north of the yellow lot.

In the big picture, our new location is just to the southeast of runway 5/23, which of course is closed for the event.
Got it, near stop #7. It's just that the map legend shows Homebuilts / Warbird Ramp at stop #4 hence my confusion.

:cool:
 
Sam, so the Homebuilt Camping area is on the far eastern edge of the show past tram stop 8, correct? And closest showers on the other side of seaplane parking. Nice hike to anything including the showers. Thanks, SnF.
 
Galin,

Stop 4 on the map would have been the closest stop to the old Homebuilt 'Showplane' (non-camping) parking, north of the exhibit area.

Jim,

You're right; Homebuilt camping is about as far as you can get from any action, without staying in a hotel in Lakeland. Great folks managing the area, but SNF obviously considers homebuilts the redheaded stepchildren of their market. As I mentioned earlier, we used to be able to camp in Vintage, west of what's now transient homebuilts. These days, you can wander the 'Vintage' area for hours without seeing anything different from what you'd see in GA parking.

Overall, though, the experience is still not as bad as OSH, the last time I went about a decade ago. I've heard OSH has gotten better in the last few years.

Charlie
 
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Your right. Vintage is now 1970 and before, that's probably 80% of the ga fleet. Nice to know that homebuilts are less of a crowd draw to them as row apon row of Cessna 150's.

I am on the fence about even coming up this year, and if I do it will only be for one day. It seems that SnF is becoming nothing more than an airshow the last few years.

I emailed them about the changes and they didn't even bother to respond to the email.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb
 
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To make sure I understand the Sun and Fun NOTAM regarding VFR arrival procedures: Lake Hancock is only used as an additional holding point, when necessary. The only initial VFR arrival point is Lake Parker, regardless of which direction you are coming in from. Correct?

George
 
I've just been monitoring this thread but it seems like I'm not the only one in the "never again" camp for SnF. We went to snf and osh last year and there was no comparison. Snf had very few aviation vendors. The bathrooms were disgusting and literally overflowing. A long walk with a very crappy bus schedule to get anywhere. As soon as we landed someone was following us in on a golf cart. Not to greet us but to get their money. Osh was 180 degrees in every aspect. It's an hour flight to snf vs 7 hours for osh and it's still an easy decision to not do snf again. This just reaffirms the decision
 
To make sure I understand the Sun and Fun NOTAM regarding VFR arrival procedures: Lake Hancock is only used as an additional holding point, when necessary. The only initial VFR arrival point is Lake Parker, regardless of which direction you are coming in from. Correct?

George

Yes.

The times when that was in effect (crash on runway, closing it) I went to ZPH and relaxed.

Finn
 
I've just been monitoring this thread but it seems like I'm not the only one in the "never again" camp for SnF. We went to snf and osh last year and there was no comparison. Snf had very few aviation vendors. The bathrooms were disgusting and literally overflowing. A long walk with a very crappy bus schedule to get anywhere. As soon as we landed someone was following us in on a golf cart. Not to greet us but to get their money. Osh was 180 degrees in every aspect. It's an hour flight to snf vs 7 hours for osh and it's still an easy decision to not do snf again. This just reaffirms the decision


Shane, I am sorry your experience was that dismal.

I can say with 100% assurance that we have multiple hangers full of aviation vendors? In fact, as of last count, we had 496 different vendors showing up for this year?s show. Of course not all are aviation related but the vast majority of them in hangers ABC and D are.

As for the toilets, I do apologize. I don?t question your observation. We do have a vendor that will be servicing the portable toilets daily and our guests will not experience a problem like that this year.

We emphasize service to all of our guests? And I ask our mobile credentials golf carts to meet all newly arriving aircraft as they shut down. They should greet you with a smile? And I will remind them of that requirement! Of course they have to sell you your daily credentials. I think we?re all aware of that hosting an airshow and fly in of this magnitude costs a lot? it?s well over a million $ just open the doors, in fact.

Again, our trams run every day, all day long and offer an easy way to get back-and-forth. Our campus is only about 1/5th the size of AirVenture?s, but we do the best we can to move people around.

I offer one immediate way to provide feedback on our event. You can contact me directly at 757?329-6745 if you have immediate problems that need to be resolved. Or, you can drop by the air operations trailer that is located on the north east corner of the warbird ramp. Ask for Flipper, or simply detail your problem to the efficient people that work inside. I guarantee you we will do our best to either fix the problem, explain why the procedure/issue is as it is, or work to fix it for next year.
 
Why is the Notam link on the home page going to a webpage and not the downloadable PDF, with no link to the downloadable one? I couldn't find the downloadable version on the Sun n Fun site anywhere but Jim Bedsole posted the link to it in message #6. Not sure why they try to make it so difficult, for something everyone needs.
Thanks Jim!

Here's a link: https://d2uowj5bno3yjz.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/19140650/2019NOTAMPublished219.pdf

I fixed the link it should work now!

What a bizzare NOTAM. Why not a nice pdf with formatted content? This HTML thing splits frequency tables across pages, etc. when printed or converted. Am I missing something? Where is the "pamphlet"?

Where is "DAY" parking?
 
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I will agree, Sun N Fun is not Oshkosh, but neither is any other aviation event on earth. I thoroughly enjoy coming to Florida in April, to enjoy some warm weather and sunshine, and connect with many friends at an aviation event that has more ?stuff? to see than just about anything outside Airventure. I find it to be a very social place and it?s the highlight of the beginning of the flying season for many of us northerners. I?ve been coming to SNF (and OSH) for decades - and will continue to do so.
 
I will agree, Sun N Fun is not Oshkosh, but neither is any other aviation event on earth. I thoroughly enjoy coming to Florida in April, to enjoy some warm weather and sunshine, and connect with many friends at an aviation event that has more ?stuff? to see than just about anything outside Airventure. I find it to be a very social place and it?s the highlight of the beginning of the flying season for many of us northerners. I?ve been coming to SNF (and OSH) for decades - and will continue to do so.

Nicely said.
 
What a bizzare NOTAM. Why not a nice pdf with formatted content? This HTML thing splits frequency tables across pages, etc. when printed or converted. Am I missing something? Where is the "pamphlet"?

Where is "DAY" parking?
See the other link I posted above. I think that’s what you are looking for.
 
What a bizzare NOTAM. Why not a nice pdf with formatted content? This HTML thing splits frequency tables across pages, etc. when printed or converted. Am I missing something? Where is the "pamphlet"?

Where is "DAY" parking?

Hey Mike,
Haven't seen you since Oshkosh.
I felt the same way when I tried to print out the pages I needed. The paging was a mess.

I ended up exporting it as a pdf, then printing the pages I needed. They could have done a much better job as they've done in the past with listing all the frequencies on one page. I plan on flying in and parking in the new HB on Wednesday & Thursday. We'll see how it goes.
 
PDF version finally there

What a bizzare NOTAM. Why not a nice pdf with formatted content? This HTML thing splits frequency tables across pages, etc. when printed or converted. Am I missing something? Where is the "pamphlet"?

It's finally there bottom of the frt page!
https://www.flysnf.org/

I also saw conflicting info for the airshow start time on Wed.. Got it verified, it does start at 1:30, plan accordingly.
 
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Will there be tie downs (stakes) in GAP parking? If not can you rent them?

In Florida and my Oshkosh tiedowns are back home. Thanks.
 
In the past, they've always had sets you can *buy*, if you get there without yours (I've managed to do that, once). Price was tolerable, and I still have my set (better quality than the ones I forgot...).

They aren't going to let you leave the a/c without it being secured, so just ask for a set when the money man (or woman) shows up on the golf cart. :)

Charlie
 
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