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Can this be fixed (belly sheet metal bend)?

C

Cannon

Well Known Member
I finally got my second-hand RV-8 on a rotisserie, and when we spun it upside down, I could see that the belly skin that becomes the lower wing root fairing was creased.

It looks like the previous builder set the fuselage on some padding and bent the belly skin where it extends past the fuselage sides.

Would something like a wood block and some light taps with a flush rivet set work? It?s on the belly, so I?m not really concerned, but if there?s an easy fix I?m all ears.


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metal shaping

Cannon said:
...Would something like a wood block and some light taps with a flush rivet set work? It?s on the belly, so I?m not really concerned, but if there?s an easy fix I?m all ears.
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Can't see the photo since I'm at work and they are blocking smugmug, but if you watch a few of this guy's videos you will feel that you can do anything with sheet metal. https://www.lazzemetalshaping.com/
 
rv8ch said:
Can't see the photo since I'm at work and they are blocking smugmug, but if you watch a few of this guy's videos you will feel that you can do anything with sheet metal. https://www.lazzemetalshaping.com/
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Same with 1st Track Dents on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUyEa2HVxn64Ppd34qCtAvw

It's absolutely insane what this guy can do with paintless dent removal, both steel and aluminum. I couldn't stop watching his videos. But I'm a dork, so YMMV.

Looks like Lazze has a YouTube channel as well, I'll have to check that out: https://www.youtube.com/user/lazzemetalshaping
 
It's a little difficult to tell from the photo, but when you interface that area with the wing, some of that may disappear. I wouldn't mess with it right now because I think it's highly likely that you'll work harden the area by messing with it. Plus since it's on the bottom, who will notice?
 
Have the wings and flaps ever been on ?
Can?t tell from the pic but the flap to fuselage interface sometimes doesn?t match up. This is the area the folks bend up or down to close that gap over the flap push rod hole.
 
Go to a good auto body shop and hire their best sheet metal guy for some after-hours work. It's remarkable what they can do.

Dave
 
JonJay said:
Have the wings and flaps ever been on ?
Can?t tell from the pic but the flap to fuselage interface sometimes doesn?t match up. This is the area the folks bend up or down to close that gap over the flap push rod hole.
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Wings have never been on.
 
David Paule said:
Go to a good auto body shop and hire their best sheet metal guy for some after-hours work. It's remarkable what they can do.

Dave
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Thanks, David. Hadn?t thought of that. Do any of those guys work with aluminum? I?m assuming it works differently to steel.
 
Cannon said:
Thanks, David. Hadn?t thought of that. Do any of those guys work with aluminum? I?m assuming it works differently to steel.
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There's plenty of aluminum car body panels these days, so most shops should have at least one capable tech, but best to ask. AL definitely works different than steel.
 
Proceed with caution....... you can easily make a bad thing worse.
The problem is the metal has stretched at the bend area and it must be finessed back into its self. This area will be difficult to work and most likely will not be restored back perfect.
Search for a Select individual from a EAA chapter or similar that knows and understands aluminum and it properties.
Just some good ole boy with a body hammer and a dolly is not your answer here.
Car body panels are not 2024T-3
Remember.... Every smack with a hammer on aluminum is a stretch (displacement) and will always show unless mechanically shrank back into its self.
Just build on until you can find said person.

Best
J.

~
 
Ask the auto body shop manager for his best guy for this. It wont be any trouble for him at all. I've had two problems in aluminum, both worse than this, repaired this way. One was on my RV-3B project.

The other was on a non-RV and was harder. I watched. It took about half an hour and a lot more knowledge and experience than I have.

Be generous paying the guy. You might need him again some day.

Dave
 
Hard to see how bad the bend is. It might be OK depending on how bent... with the reflection and light it looks like a crease. However it may not look bad when wings are on. Leave it alone and continue building and decide later.

Straighten - use two boards and clamps and slowly work it back straight. (SLOWLY means move release move release with no noticeable change but allowing the metal to heat up internally and metal memory time to remember where it was before).

You may have to remove the rivets to get to the back side... I would not (non marring) hammer it but if you can get backing plate you may be able to take the crease out buy hammer forming but it may leave some. Get some scrap sheet metal same garage, put a bend in it and practice taking it out.

The worst case or best case (easy and will look fine) cut the bent metal off and rivet on a new piece, but you will need two rows. You will add another row inboard.... You can slide it under the belly piece.

The obvious is buy new belly and replace it... That would be too much work for such a little non structural issue.

I'd worry that MOST body shop techs are steel guys.... the dent-less removal guys can work dents but again this is aluminum.... Some may understand aluminum but this is not a dent, it is a bend or crease. They need to get to the back of the metal.... I could be wrong but getting a good Tech to make house call that will not cause more damage might be hard....
 
My advice is to get an engineering opinion in writing from Van's (not a tech support opinion)

BUT whatever you do, document it so the next potential buyer can make an informed decision on wether or not this repair was appropriate.
 
gmcjetpilot said:
The worst case or best case (easy and will look fine) cut the bent metal off and rivet on a new piece, but you will need two rows. You will add another row inboard.... You can slide it under the belly piece.

The obvious is buy new belly and replace it... That would be too much work for such a little non structural issue.....
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Respectfully:
I?m not an engineer however In the +G environment I would consider this an structural skin.

Best
J.

~
 
Not perfect fix but visually good enough for the belly. I would (& have) correct the bend by pressing up with a piece of wood under the bend and ply a rounded wood dowel (held like a pencil shaped scraper) along the crown of the bend, moderate pressure. Don't go for perfection as the more you work at it, the more apparent the repair will show up.

Vans has told me in the past that that panel & the screw attachment of it to the bottom of the wings ARE considered structural. I had called them about planes I ran into that hadn't secured the belly/wing connection.
 
Cannon said:
Would something like a wood block and some light taps with a flush rivet set work? It?s on the belly, so I?m not really concerned, but if there?s an easy fix I?m all ears.
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Consider it a blessing. I cut that over hang off on all my RVs. Make an alum fairing that actually fits.
 
JonJay said:
Have the wings and flaps ever been on ?
Can’t tell from the pic but the flap to fuselage interface sometimes doesn’t match up. This is the area the folks bend up or down to close that gap over the flap push rod hole.
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Sorry - I didn’t understand what skin.
That overlap is most definitely structural as has been mentioned, and covered by Vans in past discussions. It will get screwed to the wing so if you can get it flat enough the screws will help. However, the sharp bend would bother me.
While it is on the bottom, I wouldn’t live with it. From my experience, you will waste more time worrying about this than it would take to replace the skin IF, big if, you still have access from the back side(top). If not, there are some good suggestions offered on an in place repair. Keep in mind 2024T3 is difficult to reform. It can be done, but tends to work to a point and just gets out of shape and unrecoverable. So, make sure if you resource a body shop, they understand and have works with that alloy and temper.
 
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The skin overlap area doesn?t always line up perfectly, so it might be where it needs to be right now. I think you should wait until you fit the wings to see how much a possible mis-alignment there is and then make a decision. It?s possible you would need to bend the belly skin up a little (down in this upside-down photo) to make it fit right anyway. If you need to push it down (up in this pic) to make it align with the wing overlap and you end up with a concave area, then you may want to ?massage? that skin overlap a little. In that case, check with the designers (Vans) and get their take on it. Beating it with a hammer, rivet gun, or anything else at this point might create a problem that doesn?t exist now, or make things worse. Beating on it with anything will make that area more brittle, so don?t make what you perceive as a problem worse at this point.
 
Thanks for all the replies, everyone. Lots to think about.

For now, I?m going to leave well enough alone until the wings get trial fitted. I do still have access to the inside, but I'm not super excited about drilling out and replacing the skin. If mounting the wings reveal a problem, I?ll tackle it then.

In the mean time, I?ll ping the local guys to see if there?s a 2024 Rainman.
 
wings

Cannon said:
...For now, I?m going to leave well enough alone until the wings get trial fitted. I do still have access to the inside, but I'm not super excited about drilling out and replacing the skin. If mounting the wings reveal a problem, I?ll tackle it then.

In the mean time, I?ll ping the local guys to see if there?s a 2024 Rainman.
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keep in mind that the wings slide on, and if this is sticking up in their path, then you will have trouble. I recommend doing the trial fit of the wings while in the garage/workshop - will be less comfortable in the hangar. Good luck with it and I hope you update us on how you fixed it.
 
sure

Sure. I'll post some pics. I just cut the skin off and make my own. These skin overhangs don't seem for follow the twist of the fuselage.



RidiculousM said:
Stu, any chance you could take a pic so I can see your fairing? Would be something worth considering. Thanks Mike
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I have a friend who does paint less dent Removal he’s really good w cars but has a lot of trouble with alluminum I use hot glue stick removal tools and have had good success , sometimes I need a hammer and dolly. I use a halogen light to heat and cold water to put it through cooling cycles and it’ll hold, other wise the dent guys usually have trouble getting the push to stick without heat cool cycles.
 
Mark Dickens said:
I wouldn't mess with it right now because I think it's highly likely that you'll work harden the area by messing with it. Plus since it's on the bottom, who will notice?
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Hey Honey, guess what? I don't have to clean the belly anymore! :cool:

-Marc
 
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