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Flying into OSH? Required Reading.

One last thread bump before Oshkosh. I look forward to seeing everyone in a few days. Fly safe and READ THE NOTAM!!!
 
Prking @ AirVenture

Are there any off-site parking locations that have regular shuttle buses (to-and-from) AirVenture? ;)
 
Listing to the Fisk Arrival frequency this morning - and after 10 minutes my ears are bleeding.

Doesn't ANYBODY read the NOTAM?

Not going to start naming situations, to protect the innocent that may be on here, but wow....

Be careful out there.

Please - FISK ARRIVAL FREQUENCY IS NOT FOR AIR-TO-AIR CHATTER!
 
Please do describe situations. There's probably some good learning to be had. Thanks.
 
Plenty of oddball stuff - but the two big ones that struck me were a couple of lost pilots in a flight of 2 trying to find each other, using approach frequency. Another was a flight of 3 with lead turning short final on 36, and they are still talking to approach, approach keeps trying to hand them to tower and they aren't getting it done.

I think I'll bring a lawnchair, a radio, and a sixpack to watch the circus on Sunday afternoon.
 
I think I'll bring a lawnchair, a radio, and a sixpack to watch the circus on Sunday afternoon.

There is always a Sunday Circus, but this year is was worse than usual. Arrivals were down Saturday evening and Sunday morning due to weather, so when it opened up Sunday afternoon, the system (and more than a few pilots) got overloaded.

I was out at 27 less than an hour, and recorded this one, which thankfully ended well.

Ok, Mr. Cirrus was directed to the orange dot near the threshold, but due to poor speed control he went way long. Rather than go around, he tried to drive it onto the ground nosewheel first, with predictable results. Here he is, returning to earth after his second bounce. Note the freshly bent nosewheel leg:



Landing #3 was no better than the first two. He did manage to hit the green dot ;):



If anything, apogee #3 was even higher. Good thing too, because stuff is starting to get serious.



The controllers had sent the RV in front of Mr. Cirrus to the green dot, and that RV was coasting out and easing for the left side of the runway. Mr. Cirrus was now catching him at a rapid rate. In a sudden burst of good sense, he cobbed the throttle and veered right....



...missing the RV by not a heck of a lot.



N174RT, my compliments on following the NOTAM, and clearing to the side as rapidly as possible after landing. You're my Oshkosh Very Lucky Fellow for 2016.
 
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Dan, Wow!
He certainly nailed the green dot in the second photo!
I actually got a stiff neck listening to approach and tower Sunday afternoon, while sitting at my desk at home!
Couple of standouts:
  • Holding at Rush lake, and a Cessna or two are going the wrong way around.
  • Free-for-all to get to Fish when the hold was released. Lot's of yelling on the radio for cut-off's, including an "F" bomb.
  • Folks flying 90mph instead of 90kts, leading to more yelling.
  • Mayday call during a hold, followed by a "cancel" ten seconds later or so. Guessing he ran a tank dry.
  • While the Rush lake hold is getting testy, the RV flight of 35 arrives over the field for a scheduled landing. Luckily the guys in the hold didn't hear that!
At least the ceiling prevented the usual "over the top" passes.
It was sporting up there.
 
I think I just got really lucky. I got straight in, no holding, Fisk Ave. to 18R. I heard a Mooney get sent to 27 about 3 or 4 planes ahead of me, and I suspect that's the one that closed 27 for a while. The only excitement I had was just before Ripon when a Cirrus cut in front of me by a couple hundred feet, then proceeded to fly the approach at speeds and altitudes ranging from 70 to 100 knots and 1800 to 2100 feet. He got sent to 27 also, thank goodness.

Everyone I talked to who arrived after was talking about circling the lake, lots of upset pilots, etc. I missed all that, and I'm happy I did.
 
Around noon on Sunday, the inbound traffic went from moderate to overwhelming. I was sitting out by 18R watching arrivals and saw a bunch of people not following the NOTAM, not listening, not able to fly their airplane well, etc.

But the one that took the cake was a guy in a Mustang II who made a top notch effort to land on 36R when a vast armada of airplanes was landing on 18R. He got down to about 25', realized his mistake, broke off, and bulled his way into the downwind. Then, he blew his spacing on the 18R arrival, had to go around, and bulled his way back into the downwind.

His second approach was just as bad. He blew the spacing, didn't listen, was told to go around, ignored the tower and eventually landed way, way, way down 18R after flying over and around a line of airplanes already on the runway.

A disaster waiting to happen...
 
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Coming in Monday, missing the Sunday free-for-all, I had an uneventful flight in from Fisk follow a long line of airplanes following the NOTAM and doing 90 knots and all good until I was turning very short final for the green dot on 27 when controller said "blue and white RV climb and head south for 36." I added power, flaps up, and accelerating quickly like a normal go-around. Then I heard "blue and white RV, I am going to try to get you right back to 27". Now what do I do as I am heading south with lots of speed and climbing? Seamed like eternity, but maybe only a few seconds, I hear "blue and white turn back to 27. Cleared to land green dot." Great, I am accelerating through 120 knots, climbing, and flaps up. I made the 270 degree turn pretty tight to bleed off 20 knots to get 1 notch of flaps but now descending in a slip to hit green dot. Never got down to 90 to get second notch of flaps in but did hit green dot. Skipped a bit but did not bounce. Took a few seconds to gather it all together before getting on the brakes and left into the grass. Controller gave me a "good job RV, welcome to Oshkosh."

Lesson learned: Since RVs accelerate and climb quickly, when asked to abort a landing, safely add power to establish climb but maybe try to stay below 90 knots while with in the airport perimeter in case you get the quick "return to runway" call.
 
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We were in the depth of that Sunday cluster around 12:45. "Sporty" doesn't even come close. We broke out a couple of times as there was no way they were going to allow the spacing after 2, 3, or 4 planes cut in line ahead. Finally they shut down all the inbounds and we immediately punched out for Fond du lac for full tanks and a little R&R in the A/C. A whole wave of pilots followed a little later after enjoying a few laps around the hold-of-death. Everyone there was completely clueless and the rumor mill was rampant. Our savior was LiveATC of the fisk controllers on my cell phone. I was the most informed in the whole place. We launched again around 1:45, and those that had seen me carefully listening and hatching our plan in a quiet corner with the help of a friend working the telemetry back home, followed us out the door. Tanya was keeping them at bay because apparently it looked like I knew what I was doing :).

"Fond du Lac ground, 4822C at the pumps with information india ready to taxi for departure." "22C, say destination." "Ripon!" "22C, Oshkosh is closed and they don't expect it to open for some time. Do you want to stay here or are you just going to go out and fly around?" I knew for a fact that Fisk controllers were sending airplanes to both 27 and 18 right now. "We're going to depart." Like I said, nobody at Fond du lac had any useful information.

From what I could tell, there are probably still people in the hold at green lake :).
 
My Take........

I have been flying into OSH since the early 90's and I don't remember it ever getting quite as exiting as it was when I arrived at Ripon on Sunday at about 11:30 LCL.
Even with 2 runways open at that time, it was a bit chaotic with spacing way tighter than required but the Fisk controllers were doing a great job sorting it out by giving alternating runway assignments to the lineup so that it effectively doubled the spacing leaving Fisk.
We finally made our way to runway 27 and were just turning final #2 to land when the Mooney made its performance for the crowd which resulted in the runway closed announcement and instructions to fly down the runway at 1300 MSL. The control said they hoped to get us routed around to 18 but stand by.
15 seconds later he said the other pattern was hammered and it wasn't going to happen so we were instructed to continue west and go back to Ripon:(.

By the time we got back to Ripon it was literally scary.... I have never seen anything like it while flying the OSH arrival.
There were airplanes orbiting in circles around the town of Ripon, and at Fisk they were making 2 or 3 out of every 4 airplanes turn right and head back south to Ripon because the spacing was so tight :eek:.
I am still not sure how it worked out that we dropped into a gap at Ripon while the crazies were circling around , but we ended up inbound with decent spacing and overflew Fisk inbound to 18R without anyone near us getting sent back, so all was going well until one of the entitled / me first pilots destroyed any level of organization that was left.
<BTW, 10 seconds after leaving Fisk and just reaching for the radio to do a Freq swap I heard "Oh God" live on the air from the Fisk controller. This was the very first time I have ever heard a controller at OSH lose his composure. I am not sure what was actually happening because I went ahead and pushed the button.... I didn't really want to know at that point.>

Dear passengers of the Piper Saratoga whose pilot ignored pretty much ever arrival procedure and blasted into the down wind for 18R from somewhere south of the airport.

I can't help but wonder if you have any idea the level of risk your pilot put you and people in other airplanes in when he barged into the down wind leg of the landing pattern at higher than normal speed, cut in front of 4 airplanes and then threw out the flaps and gear to avoid running over the rest that were in front of him. All because he apparently thinks the worlds rules apply to everyone else and that everyone should get out of his way and allow him to move to the front of the line (I'll bet he has been doing it since kindergarten).

Could you see that he had now reduced the separation of about 6 airplanes to 500' spacing and with everyone trying their best to make it better, resulted in him flying nearly the entire pattern almost to touchdown in close formation with another airplane?

Silly of me to even ask because once on the ground everyone in the airplane was probably giving high 5's and praising the pilot for his remarkable skill.
The sad part of this story is that none of you will probably ever know the level of risk he put you and others in, or the distain that most other pilots would have for his performance.
 
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We stood there watching the arrivals to 18 on Sunday in amazement that nobody got killed. My wife finally told me that she was getting sick to her stomach watching that fiasco unfold so we walked away and did something else.

Later we were watching the arrivals on 27 from HBC sitting by the airplane for the last hour before they closed the field. Another miracle that someone did not get killed.

Made my arrival seem like a walk in the park!
 
Particularly on Sunday, any idea why they weren't using the skinny runway - 18L? That would have greatly improved some of the spacing problems.
 
I flew in on Saturday morning, early, you can do that when you live a 30min RV hop from Ripon. :D The entire flight was a non event. I was even asked what runway I wanted. Sunday I sat in a chair next to my airplane in HBC when the field was opened up and turned on the handheld to listen in on the chatter. Holy ****! :eek: is about all I can say. I watched pilots who had obviously NOT read the notam, or simply cannot deal with a stressful situation, flying what I like to refer to as the Spam Can pattern, they were almost to 27 before turning base, dropping in from nowhere and expecting others to simply adjust. Each controller that got on tried to get them back to turning base earlier but they seemed want to continue to drift to the north.
Hats off to the controllers, these guys were amazing. They would switch every 10-15min, I have to believe they needed a well deserved break to catch their breath.
 
I hadn?t written this up before now, because frankly, I was not at all comfortable with what happened. However seeing the other eye witness accounts, thought I would add mine. If I could add a second recommendation to the READ/FOLLOW THE NOTAM it would be learn AND PRACTICE flying your aircraft on altitude and on speed.

I was also in the middle of the Sunday insanity. Little did I know when departing KFNT direct Ripon what was waiting. With nearly 20 arrivals over as many years, this was absolutely the worst.

We made it to second in line approaching Fisk at about 11:30am when the only runway open was abruptly closed. We were told to hold at Rush Lake and turned west. I was following another aircraft to try and keep an orderly Rush lake circuit going. I have never held at rush lake and didn?t realize Rush lake is what is otherwise known as an area of swamp grass, and the next thing I knew we were joining traffic around Green lake.
I saw the aircraft circling the opposite direction on the east side of the lake. I just assumed they were making their own hold and had almost overlapped the circles? not a good situation. Every way you looked 5-10 aircraft were overtaking, swinging out, swinging closer to the lake shore. Above 1800, below 1800 ? Since aircraft were at several speeds and altitudes, there was no way to set up a stable course. I just had to keep eyes out and constantly adjust.
I was just coming around the Ripon end of the lake when the controllers called for Green lake hold to start single filing in. We had a good 2 mile opening ahead and started in when a 172 cut in front from above to the east (not a Green lake hold) .. So OK, I had the speed and space to pull ahead and put him behind me, but decided to be nice and re-space prior to Fisk. Bad move
This idiot proceeded to fly +/- 500 feet and +/- 20 knots. Runway 18 was the first opened, but two planes ahead everything suddenly switched to 27. I managed to keep enough spacing to get the cleared to 27 call over Fisk. Working to keep idiot 172 in sight I really felt sorry for anyone directly behind me. I held a constant 1800 feet, but speed to keep from overflying stupid in front of me was another matter. Then to top it off, the ?person? flew 3 miles out over lake Winnebago and descended to about 300 feet off the water before turning final with nothing in front of them for a few miles. All the while the controller was telling people not to fly past the lake shore. It reminds me of the guy in the left freeway lane doing 55!

Working to stay behind and not cut off the now 60-70 knot low approach of (did I mention the pilot of the 172 was an idiot?) I chirped the stall horns several times during base and final turns? bad bad juju in my book! I almost turned back out at that point. (Thank heavens for slow flight maneuvering practice at altitude in my prep/practice before flying into Oshkosh)

Hanging on the prop I dragged it in and plopped on the runway. It felt sloppy all the way around, but we were there safe and sound for the wife?s first Oshkosh. :D
 
2017 Thread Bump

Alright all, listen up. This is my annual bump of this thread to the top of everyone's feed. I do this every year, but this time it is even more important after the fiasco that was 2016. Go back and read the last couple of pages for a small taste of it.

Let me be blunt- there are people reading this right now who have absolutely no business flying in to Oshkosh. The vast majority of us are skilled, disciplined and professional, but it only takes one yahoo to screw it up for everyone. Don't be that person. Fly safe and READ THE NOTAM!

I really want to see all you folks at the beer bash Monday, so do everything in your power to make it there safely... even if that means driving in. You know who you are.
 
I was in the middle of the Sunday rush last year and, to me, one of the biggest problems was lack of airspeed control. Time after time I would establish spacing, only to lose it as the plane ahead of me started slowing down, even though his spacing was fine ahead. If you are one of those who can only fly at "whatever this power setting gives me" you, in Jeff's words, "have no business flying into Oshkosh".
 
I was in the middle of the Sunday rush last year and, to me, one of the biggest problems was lack of airspeed control. Time after time I would establish spacing, only to lose it as the plane ahead of me started slowing down, even though his spacing was fine ahead. If you are one of those who can only fly at "whatever this power setting gives me" you, in Jeff's words, "have no business flying into Oshkosh".

That happened to me on Monday of last year. I was following a Cessna to 27 who for some reason decided to slow way down about halfway to the downwind from Fisk. I tried to match him without S-turning but was still overtaking him when I heard the stall horn chirp so I bailed and re-entered the conga line at Ripon.

Please read and follow the NOTAM!
 
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And please, go out this weekend and practice a bunch of tight, close-in right patterns to a spot landing, said spot not on the threshold. It's what you will be asked to do with RWY 27 in use.
 
I am hoping Mel Asberry posts an updated short form for us. I used his last year (after fully reading the NOTAM) and it worked great. I'll drop him a PM.
 
There are lots of good YouTube videos from last year since it was so, uh, eventful. Use these to get an idea of what it can be like. Not all of the pilots are good ones! You should be able to tell who is following the NOTAM correctly.

Here is one, and YouTube will keep feeding you more in its recommendations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nol5ZD96G0&t=1127s
 
OSH

As I prepare for my 48th Oshkosh I will be parking my EAB at an outlying airport. The sad truth is that OSH gets more and more dangerous every year.
Far too many of the pilots who should be reading this can't be bothered. The basic flying skills of too many pilots is getting worse every year.
A couple years ago when the wind was probably 20-25 straight across 36, I watched from the SE corner of the airport for a while. The amazing thing is watching textbook perfect greasers in T6's, Beech 18's the Fords etc. Mixed in with this are the Mooney's, Bonanza's etc that are all over the runway. Far too many on the ragged edge of crashing.
This is not limited to inexperienced pilots. There was the DC3 many years ago that didn't lock the tailwheel and almost got into the crowd on takeoff. Mr. R, total loss of control in his single pilot jet attempting to land 18. The list goes on and on.
One important point I haven't seen mentioned: one should practice, starting at altitude and then in the pattern, very tight turns from base to final. This is the scenario with 9 and 18 active. In this scenario you will frequently have a tailwind on base for 18.
Maintain thy airspeed, lest the earth rise up and smite thee. ANGLE OF ATTACK!!
 
Timing is everything

I think timing things to hit low-traffic times is essential. I've hung out at Baraboo-Dells airport or other airports less than an hour from Fisk, listened to the air show on the internet, launched 30 minutes after the airshow was over and it was a cakewalk. I've also followed a storm front in, been nearly first in line in the morning and nearly the last one in after dinner and minimized the risk. In my opinion once they start holding over the lakes it's time to go land and have lunch somewhere.

Sun-N-Fun to me is worse.

I absolutely agree with everyone about practicing slow flight until you have it nailed before going. You can't watch for others if you are struggling with your speed and altitude. I've flown into OSH about 8 times and still practice each July. I have found in my -8 that about 10 degrees of flaps makes it much easier.

I also suggest knowing the NOTAM by heart and using Mel's list (or your own) as just a checklist. RIPON is the wrong place to be reading the NOTAM.
 
I usually overnight at Dekalb Illinois on Thursday night and depart before 6:00 AM for a RIPON checkin just prior to 7:00 AM. In 2012 I was the ONLY airplane from RIPON to touchdown at OSH. Easy-Peasy!
P.S. Now that I think about it, that year was the year I flew all the way from North Alabama to Dekalb and then to Oshkosh without seeing another airplane! And yes, I have good vision (20/15 Right and 20/20 Left)
 
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2018 thread bump

With Oshkosh just a couple of weeks away it is time to bump this old thread once again. Especially if it your first time flying in, please go back to page 1 and start reading.

I look forward to seeing everyone in a couple of weeks. Fly safe and READ THE NOTAM!


[Note: “Bumping” of threads is not usually allowed on VAF forums but for this subject we make an exception. S/rv7boy, one of the mods]
 
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Mass arrivals?

Can someone post the ETAs for the mass arrivals, like the Bonanzas, Cessnas, et al? aka arrival times to avoid
 
Mass arrivals 2018?

I looked at the websites for big three groups Bonanza’s, Cessna’s and Cherokee’s. I only checked for Saturday since that is my target arrival day.

Best I can figure it looks like the Cherokee’s arrive at 1100, the Bonanza’s at 1245 and the Cessna’s at 1430, Mooney’s at 1200. This assumes they launch on time from there respective assembly points. So these ARE NOT EXACT times. Use them at your own risk.
 
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So painful

Even though I've listened to this before, it's so painful to listen to this. Imagine if there were 1000 pilots coming in doing the same thing. It would be a disaster! Hopefully, someone spoke to this guy once he parked....
 
Someone, more than likely, had a talk with him but I doubt that he's the type to have listened. :rolleyes:

That's kind of the Catch-22 in all of this. The folks most likely to be unaware or blatantly ignore the NOTAM probably don't hang out on any of the aviation forums.

Then there's the group that understand the NOTAM and attempt to follow it, at least to some degree, but for some reason can't seem to maintain speed and/or altitude on the arrival. If you're rusty, please get out there and practice!

Everyone keep your head on a swivel, fly safe, and we'll see you at OSH!
 
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