I am looking into purchasing a -6. How do they handle crosswinds and is there any figure on a max demonstrated crosswind component like they do for certified planes? I can handle hefty crosswinds in the 172 but the -6 seems so small and light that it can make a 15kt 90 degree crosswind rather hard.
Van's Air Force
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crosswind handling
- Thread starter Simtech
- Start date
terrykohler
Well Known Member
Maximum "Demonstrated" Cross-Wind Capability
I'd probably go to Van's for this one, but the reality is that in the end, it will likely be something less based on your skill/experience. Also, you need to be aware that the RV6/6A can be found with two different rudder sizes, with the smaller of the two frequently found on earlier versions. The larger rudder will give you more authority/capability.
Probably not many on these forums with more time (and landings) in a 6A than Turbo, and his feedback is generally spot-on. But I'd be very careful using 15kts until I've had "a lot" of practice. Most important, if you don't like the looks of things at any time, go around (as many times as you have to - or go to another airport) - some folks have a hard time doing this and consequently make some pretty bad landings.
These are great airplanes, but they're not 172's.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
I'd probably go to Van's for this one, but the reality is that in the end, it will likely be something less based on your skill/experience. Also, you need to be aware that the RV6/6A can be found with two different rudder sizes, with the smaller of the two frequently found on earlier versions. The larger rudder will give you more authority/capability.
Probably not many on these forums with more time (and landings) in a 6A than Turbo, and his feedback is generally spot-on. But I'd be very careful using 15kts until I've had "a lot" of practice. Most important, if you don't like the looks of things at any time, go around (as many times as you have to - or go to another airport) - some folks have a hard time doing this and consequently make some pretty bad landings.
These are great airplanes, but they're not 172's.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
wrongway john
Well Known Member
My 6 has the larger 8 rudder on mine. I still haven't tested the crosswinds that much on mine, I like to play it extra safe, so probably haven't been up in anything higher than 15kt 90 degree crosswinds, and those have certainly been easy enough.
However, I have been pleasantly surprised and can vouch for how easy it has been to taxi in very strong 30kt winds gusting to 35, and no tendency for the wing to lift at all.
However, I have been pleasantly surprised and can vouch for how easy it has been to taxi in very strong 30kt winds gusting to 35, and no tendency for the wing to lift at all.
WyoDave
Well Known Member
27 G34 90 degrees
Most of my flying is here in Wyoming so I've had opportunity to land in cross winds quite a bit. The most I've landed in is 27 G34 90 degrees off the runway
. The gust made it difficult to hold the centerline but the plane did just fine To me its easier than a C172 because instead of floating the 6 will land when you want it to.
Most of my flying is here in Wyoming so I've had opportunity to land in cross winds quite a bit. The most I've landed in is 27 G34 90 degrees off the runway
. The gust made it difficult to hold the centerline but the plane did just fine To me its easier than a C172 because instead of floating the 6 will land when you want it to.
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
Indeed. Short wings and high control authority equals good cross wind control. People have said the Pitts is one of the best airplanes in this regard just for this reason. As far as max crosswind goes, as long as you don't run out of rudder or drag a wingtip...
Did one with wind at 30-35 knots 80 degrees to the runway. Took 3 attempts as the crab angle was close to 45 degrees at some points in the approach. I have the small rudder. You don't run out of rudder but pretty dicey as it would be in any plane with this crosswind component and approaching at 70 knots or so. Your technique and timing better be dead on...
I wouldn't do this one again but had little choice because of weather closing in.
15 knots at 90 degrees is no big deal in a 6A IMO once you are used to the airplane.
I wouldn't do this one again but had little choice because of weather closing in.
15 knots at 90 degrees is no big deal in a 6A IMO once you are used to the airplane.
My experience has shown that the tail size differential is a wash for landing.
While the larger tail give more rudder authority, It also causes more weathervane effect, thereby "needing" the extra rudder authority.
The one thing that the larger tail does give is a little better spin recovery.
The RV series of aircraft have some of the best crosswind handling qualities of any airplane I've flown in the last 47 years.
While the larger tail give more rudder authority, It also causes more weathervane effect, thereby "needing" the extra rudder authority.
The one thing that the larger tail does give is a little better spin recovery.
The RV series of aircraft have some of the best crosswind handling qualities of any airplane I've flown in the last 47 years.
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It is - very powerful and equal rudder and aileron authority. You can 3-point a Pitts in 20KT direct with less than half aileron deflection. There is lots of authority up to the touchdown point, but (just like any other landing) a Pitts demands precision in touching down straight, without drift, and continuing to roll out straight. RVs don't have the same control authority in x-winds, but they (tailwheel models) tolerate misalignment, drift, and swerves quite a bit better than a bungee gear Pitts does.
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
No Pitts time (yet), but I have done several landings with the Hiperbipe in absolutely howling crosswinds. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I know I've seen over 30 knots steady, with gusts on top of that. Have not had quite that severe in any of the RV/Rockets I've flown, but based on what I have been through, I'm sure they will handle substantially more wind than most pilots would have the sense to attempt.
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
Yep, at 15 kts direct crosswind the rudder on my RV-6 is pretty much all in to keep the plane aligned with the center line. You can land with some crab but it won't be a landing you want ground bounders grading.
I'm not sure what to make of the claims for much, much higher crosswind capability in the RV-6. I see them every time a thread like this appears, 20, even 30 kts crosswind....just don't understand how the physics of those planes is that much different from mine.
A lot depends on the characteristics of the crosswind, a smooth wind with no mechanical turbulence is much easier to cope with than 15kts with rotors. When 15kts comes rolling over the buildings adjacent to our runway the RV-6 is quite the handful.....and the landing can be a bit noisy....
JonJay
Well Known Member
Yep, at 15 kts direct crosswind the rudder on my RV-6 is pretty much all in to keep the plane aligned with the center line. You can land with some crab but it won't be a landing you want ground bounders grading.
I'm not sure what to make of the claims for much, much higher crosswind capability in the RV-6. I see them every time a thread like this appears, 20, even 30 kts crosswind....just don't understand how the physics of those planes is that much different from mine.
A lot depends on the characteristics of the crosswind, a smooth wind with no mechanical turbulence is much easier to cope with than 15kts with rotors. When 15kts comes rolling over the buildings adjacent to our runway the RV-6 is quite the handful.....and the landing can be a bit noisy....
Spot on as usual. I consider 15kts my max. crosswind component, but have had occasions that was exceeded.
Additionally, reported winds are moments captured in time by an instrument located on some roof, tower, or pole...not directly next to the runway a few feet off the ground. It is just a reference, not an absolute....
They are not 3-pointing in 30KT x-wind. Yes, you will not have enough control to counter drift and crab in this much wind at 3-point attitude speeds. They are wheel landing faster and maybe using brake to get the tail down safely. Touching down safely in a tailwheel airplane is not the problem in a x-wind because you can touchdown at cruise speed.
The faster you are flying, the less x-wind correction is needed at touchdown of course. The trick is getting the tail down safely. You could possibly touch down in conditions you cannot safely get the tail down in. I would guess an honest 30KT x-wind is doable if you wheel land and fly the tail down at just the right time (not too fast, not too slow) and use brake and maybe a touch of power to help with directional control. I never actually landed in this much x-wind in my RV.But take others' claims of high x-wind numbers with a large lump of salt. The ASOS doesn't necessarily equal the exact conditions you are experiencing at the runway surface at the precise time you did a landing. Runway surface wind can be quite different. Physical obstructions can also cut the wind. Others don't know or calculate the actual x-wind component either. Saying you landed in 15KT gusting 30 (according to ASOS) means nothing. You could have actually landed in 15KT or less of wind at the time. I don't pay much attention to the numbers people throw out when threads like this turn into the "I landed in higher x-wind than you" Peter-measuring game.
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Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
RV-6A Crosswind landings
My all time high crosswind landing was done in a large rudder RV-6A at Key West nearly 9 years ago. I was on a GPS 27 approach in the dark, in the rain with about an 800' overcast. The winds were 48KG54 90* across the runway. The landing approach was at least a 30* crab, but the landing was straight due to a burst of power and a full left rudder deflection just before a full stall flare. The landing was a definite plop, but straight with no bounce.
It's all about technique with these kinds of winds. If you aren't comfortable with this level of cross winds, then don't fly in them!
My all time high crosswind landing was done in a large rudder RV-6A at Key West nearly 9 years ago. I was on a GPS 27 approach in the dark, in the rain with about an 800' overcast. The winds were 48KG54 90* across the runway. The landing approach was at least a 30* crab, but the landing was straight due to a burst of power and a full left rudder deflection just before a full stall flare. The landing was a definite plop, but straight with no bounce.
It's all about technique with these kinds of winds. If you aren't comfortable with this level of cross winds, then don't fly in them!
My all time high crosswind landing was done in a large rudder RV-6A at Key West nearly 9 years ago. I was on a GPS 27 approach in the dark, in the rain with about an 800' overcast. The winds were 48KG54 90* across the runway. The landing approach was at least a 30* crab, but the landing was straight due to a burst of power and a full left rudder deflection just before a full stall flare. The landing was a definite plop, but straight with no bounce.
It's all about technique with these kinds of winds. If you aren't comfortable with this level of cross winds, then don't fly in them!
Tricycle land-o-matic 6A gear is irrelevant to the OP's question. However, as I've responded before, some things don't add up in this story of yours that you've told before. First, you would have much more than 30 degrees of crab in this much wind, unless you were approaching around 98KT, which would take a whole lot of slowing down to reach the "full stall flare". I fail to understand how you could have been at the "stall point" in a 48-54 KT direct x-wind when even if you were crabbed 90 degrees to the runway, aligned directly into the wind at the "stall point" (43 KTS for a 6A), you would be flying backwards across the runway. The airplane would not be tracking the runway. I think the description of your touchdown speed, the wind speed, and direction (or all of the above) are quite a bit off.
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BillL
Well Known Member
Those pesky numbers . . . . . There I was, hanging by my fingernails at 30,000 feet with the bomb bay doors open . . . . .
RV-6A Cross Wind Landings
And as I said before, you had to be there to see it (and there were people there to see it, so it's not imaginary). I certainly can't remember all the definitive details after almost nine years, but it did happen. And I very distinctly remember the ATIS report on final. And I did land..... So call it what you want...... I'm sure not going to get into a p*ssing match about it....
And as I said before, you had to be there to see it (and there were people there to see it, so it's not imaginary). I certainly can't remember all the definitive details after almost nine years, but it did happen. And I very distinctly remember the ATIS report on final. And I did land..... So call it what you want...... I'm sure not going to get into a p*ssing match about it....
DougJ
Well Known Member
the RV-6 is quite the handful.....and the landing can be a bit noisy....
Screaming?
Is the noise from the screaming?
wrongway john
Well Known Member
I remember the crosswinds capability on my Piper Tomahawk was rated at 15kts. I trained in another Tomahawk. Of course, they are tricycle gear, but in the right hands, still obviously they were being very conservative with that figure.
During my training one day, I thought for sure my flight would be cancelled, because it was very cloudy, but still met VFR minimum?s. But the winds were 30kt with gusts to 35, and possibly even higher. These were direct crosswinds from the runway too. I did not want to go, was a bit skeered, and was starting to question my instructors sanity. But my instructor (Tom Pappas) thought this would be a good time for me to get into some good crosswinds training and showing me how the plane handled. I tried my best to get out of it, but he would have none of it.
I never have been bounced around so much since that flight, but my instructor, still calm and confident, not cocky, takes over, and says I know what the book says, but let me show you how this plane can do a touch and go in these crosswinds. He had the wing banked a good 30 degrees or so into the wind-- surprised the wingtip didn?t hit the ground--and what seemed like most of the opposite rudder used up, but yet, he came down one wheel at a time, put the nose wheel down too, rode the runway nearly the entire length keeping it straight as an arrow the whole time, before taking off again. Next go around he also landed on the same runway, and came to a complete stop. To this day, I?m still puzzled how he did this. I wish we had gopro cameras then, I?d given anything to have recorded that flight.
I'm sure taildraggers are tougher, but I have no doubt there are a few that can far exceed what the plane is supposedly capable of doing. I'm just not one of them.
During my training one day, I thought for sure my flight would be cancelled, because it was very cloudy, but still met VFR minimum?s. But the winds were 30kt with gusts to 35, and possibly even higher. These were direct crosswinds from the runway too. I did not want to go, was a bit skeered, and was starting to question my instructors sanity. But my instructor (Tom Pappas) thought this would be a good time for me to get into some good crosswinds training and showing me how the plane handled. I tried my best to get out of it, but he would have none of it.
I never have been bounced around so much since that flight, but my instructor, still calm and confident, not cocky, takes over, and says I know what the book says, but let me show you how this plane can do a touch and go in these crosswinds. He had the wing banked a good 30 degrees or so into the wind-- surprised the wingtip didn?t hit the ground--and what seemed like most of the opposite rudder used up, but yet, he came down one wheel at a time, put the nose wheel down too, rode the runway nearly the entire length keeping it straight as an arrow the whole time, before taking off again. Next go around he also landed on the same runway, and came to a complete stop. To this day, I?m still puzzled how he did this. I wish we had gopro cameras then, I?d given anything to have recorded that flight.
I'm sure taildraggers are tougher, but I have no doubt there are a few that can far exceed what the plane is supposedly capable of doing. I'm just not one of them.
May I ask how you ended up in those conditions?
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
the RV-6 is quite the handful.....and the landing can be a bit noisy....
Screaming?
Is the noise from the screaming?
The pilot is too busy to scream....but the tires may be squalling....
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
This goes without saying...
The most "significant" crosswind adventure in my Hiperbipe took two tries and was just short of a controlled crash. I used the full width of the runway and left plenty of rubber behind before I got it stopped. I was sweating bullets when I finally got it parked.
Whether this thread turns into a "mines bigger than yours" thread or not remains to be seen, but many of us DO routinely experience 15+ knots of crosswind component.
There's a reason there's about 1000 wind turbines in my local flying area.
RV-6A Cross wind landings
Sure... Full stop landing, and while taxing back to the FBO, what looked like an ATR72 did a go around. We (my wife was with me) got out of the plane, took the carry on bags out of the plane and put them on the pavement, only to have them blow away. My wife chased them down while I, my friend and his wife, tied down & secured the plane. While we were doing that, another (or the same one) ATR72 did another go-around. Then they closed the airport...
We spent the week in Key West (12/26/05), but it was a cold one - no swimming....
My impression of the RV-'s is that they handle cross wind components quite well, IF the proper techniques are utilized, AND the pilot is experienced and well practiced.
Sure... Full stop landing, and while taxing back to the FBO, what looked like an ATR72 did a go around. We (my wife was with me) got out of the plane, took the carry on bags out of the plane and put them on the pavement, only to have them blow away. My wife chased them down while I, my friend and his wife, tied down & secured the plane. While we were doing that, another (or the same one) ATR72 did another go-around. Then they closed the airport...
We spent the week in Key West (12/26/05), but it was a cold one - no swimming....
My impression of the RV-'s is that they handle cross wind components quite well, IF the proper techniques are utilized, AND the pilot is experienced and well practiced.
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flyvans.com
Well Known Member
i found x-wind takeoffs to be trickier than landings... (7A with the large rudder)
had an extreme x-wind once (30kts at 90?) and regularly medium xwind (15kts) during the trip to greece a few years ago. handled great.
the 30kts certainly pushed it, aggravated by lack of options to get fuel at all. however, the rv handled extremely well during the landing, albeit at an extreme crab of >40?.
takeoff was rather rough with an extreme weathervaning tendency requiring full left! rudder that definitely grabs your attention...
as always YMMV (your mileage may vary).
regards,
bernie
had an extreme x-wind once (30kts at 90?) and regularly medium xwind (15kts) during the trip to greece a few years ago. handled great.
the 30kts certainly pushed it, aggravated by lack of options to get fuel at all. however, the rv handled extremely well during the landing, albeit at an extreme crab of >40?.
takeoff was rather rough with an extreme weathervaning tendency requiring full left! rudder that definitely grabs your attention...
as always YMMV (your mileage may vary).
regards,
bernie
