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SkyView Update on Facebook

Now that it has been announced by Van's perhaps Mitch could provide some more detailed pictures and if permitted tell us a little about what is involved and how it went, things like what had to be opened and changed, and anything else that would be of interest to we who are about to follow in his footsteps.

Best regards,
Vern
 
SV Release

vernhendershott said:
Now that it has been announced by Van's perhaps Mitch could provide some more detailed pictures and if permitted tell us a little about what is involved and how it went, things like what had to be opened and changed, and anything else that would be of interest to we who are about to follow in his footsteps.

Best regards,
Vern
Click to expand...

Now Guys read the Facebook Press release & settle down a bit. You NOW know the Setup for the SV releases so settle down and WAIT..! ;)
 
Quote from Vans Facebook
" And does that builder have a lighting kit installed or not? It makes a difference."

Makes me think if you have lighting kit installed, you will be unable to
install dual displays
 
I have to start this post with a summary: The various Skyview update packages that Van?s will be supplying make a very complex interface project as easy to install and simple to understand as it can possibly be made. The particular package that I received allows a complete retrofit from the original RV-12 D180 Avionics Kit to the new RV-12 Skyview Avionics Kit. Other packages will be available to allow installation of the Skyview Avionics Kit from any stage of build. I can see from the package that I received that Van?s has put a lot of work into making this as easy for the builder as possible.
Going from six boxes in the panel (D180, AP74, GPSMAP496,SL-40, Intercom & GTX327) to three (Skyview screen, Intercom & SL-40) with a vast array of interconnections that now need to be rerouted and condensed is a daunting task at best. The heart of this process is a central module that is mounted on the shelf behind the instrument panel. There are separate modules mounted to the inside of the firewall for EMS and the Mode-S transponder. The magnetometer behind the baggage bulkhead is replaced with the ADHARS unit. There are nifty drill templates enclosed that show exactly where to drill mounting holes for all new devices. They fit perfectly.
The kit comes with pre-terminated cables that are color coded and labeled as to where they go and how they interconnect with the existing wiring system. Most of the cables either go to or come from the new control module. There are a couple of patch cables that are installed between existing cables so that some wires can be rerouted that have no need to go through the central module.
There is one wire that needs to be added firewall forward to accommodate the power requirements of a new fuel pressure sender. The most difficult part of the project is installing the additional wires required by the ADHARS aft. As with the entire project, but especially here, "FOLLOW THE STATED PROCEDURE". It makes a frustrating process less so.
The upgrade kit also comes with a new wing wiring interconnect system which is superior to the original. Obviously, the wings must be removed to install it. The wings are removed at the start of the process. I recommend that you leave them off until the very last. Also, you have to crawl in the back behind the baggage compartment. Before you do, support the tail at the tie down ring. If you don't, big surprise comin'.
Time to install? I would estimate that for a flying RV-12, the original builder could install this system in about 50 to 60 man hours. It is no small project. But the design and implementation of the package is top notch and as 'builder friendly' as it can be. The overall installation is geared toward easily accommodating future upgrades and looks to be very well thought out.
I only have a few hours flying behind the new Skyview and all I can say is "WOW!"
 
You guys are very welcome. It's good to get some hard info out to folks.

Pricing? I haven't a clue. Those decisions come from the bean counters at the home office.
 
Mitch - a few very specific questions please!

1. The additional wires running aft to the new ADHRS - please describe them, i.e. are they two twisted pairs? Do they follow the same route as the existing wires? Do the control linkages (e.g. pushrods) have to be removed for the installation? Please describe the directions for this "less than frustrating" task!!

2. What else must be done "in the tunnel?"

3. Regarding drilling for the new ADHRS support brackets - is this through the top skin? Do existing rivets have to be drilled out? No big deal but my plane is already painted, just wondering about the extent of touch-up.

4. It appears that the new center piece of the instrument panel face requires the total removal and reinstallation of the three engine controls. I had hoped that the mounting positions on that new piece would have slots up from the bottom of that piece, with a removable backer piece (with nutplates and countersunk screws) to hold them in place. (For those with existing center pieces, it would have been easy to cut them out without otherwise affecting their installation.) This would make future mods to that center panel SOOOO much easier!

5. I have the lighting kit but left in a string for pulling future wires. I understand one more wire to each light to separate the strobe and nav. Is there anything else? Like adding a wire to interconnect both strobes for synch?

6. Once put in place, the antenna cables cannot be readily removed or replaced without at least dropping the rudder pedals. Are the existing com and transponder antenna cables reused, perhaps with some adapter?

7. Is a bracket for a future Dynon ADSB unit included? The update pdf clearly indicated the wiring and power provisions for it, I am thinking about the future mechanical installation.

8. Please describe the new fuel pressure sender, particularly any mounting changes for it. Does it attach to the same hose? Is it secured with the same clamp?

9. Please describe any other changes to items mounted on the firewall.

!0. Do the USB extension cables for Skyview update exit the bottom of the panel floor for easy memory stick access for updates?

THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS!!!

Bill H. - ALL DONE except for Skyview, including paint, see pics here:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.151245628228677.26907.100000297210697&type=1&l=a2b29e894a
 
I for one would like to acknowledge Van's Aircraft for making the Skyview a retrofit instead of just saying that all RV-12's before "kit no x" are D-180, and after "kit no x" are the new upgraded Skyview (ie leaving it up to us to work out a retrofit).

Cessna, etc (ie certified a/c) don't sell retrofit kits when the new model has a "better"/new avionics fit, and Van's could have just taken that pathway.
I didn't realise until I read the Facebook Van's notice that what they were doing was above and beyond (no, I'm not being sarcastic).

John
 
Hi John,

Van's is only doing what is required by the ASTM rules that require that Van's supply all the parts except things like paint, glue and grease. When their vendors stopped producing the parts that they were supplying they had no choice but to change the kit for all as they are not permitted to let us go to the market and buy major parts like engines, propellers and avionics. I agree that they could have just told some that they have to go EAB but that would probably have got them several calls from lawyers to have a little chat about breach of contract as we were sold a ELSA kit and given to believe that all kits to complete a ELSA RV-12 would be made available.

I do believe they are trying to do the right thing by their customers, they just do not seem to be as good at avionics as they are at kits like the RV-7. I guess from what they said we may see kits in builders hands some time in March or April as they do not order avionics high value parts until kits are ready for sale and as they do not take plastic money for avionics (for our benefit) then it takes about 10 days to get the order confirmed and paid for then as there will be several variations on what must be supplied to each customer based on when the customers other kits were supplied, what options the customer is buying and what upgrades like the trim motor connector; each kit will have to be picked for a particular customer and then shipped unlike the other kits that are just a wings kit boxed and ready to ship. So as I see it with the holidays they will be lucky to have the drawings done and the vendor orders for small parts placed by the end of the year, then they can start taking orders in January and if all the vendors do well for us they may be able to start shipping kits in mid-February which will be split shipped as before so a customer who is in the first five may get a kit around the first of March, let all hope there are no more major delays to be dealt with and that some more RV-12's will start to get done by the first of April.

Best regards,
Vern



rjtjrt said:
I for one would like to acknowledge Van's Aircraft for making the Skyview a retrofit instead of just saying that all RV-12's before "kit no x" are D-180, and after "kit no x" are the new upgraded Skyview (ie leaving it up to us to work out a retrofit).

Cessna, etc (ie certified a/c) don't sell retrofit kits when the new model has a "better"/new avionics fit, and Van's could have just taken that pathway.
I didn't realise until I read the Facebook Van's notice that what they were doing was above and beyond (no, I'm not being sarcastic).

John
Click to expand...
 
I just spoke to VAN's on the phone and understand the power budget with the standard alternator can only drive one display unit.
Power availability seems to limit the options quite bit.
It can deliver 20A and I am surprised thats not enough.

The drawings Rv 0 will be ready before x-mas, but I would be interested in a copy of those so we can prepare a bit to what is coming.

Pricing and lead time are still mysteries so still worried

Jack

Netherlands

RV12 90% completed waiting for Skyview
 
Van's very detailed .pdf file on the Skyview system and RV-12 mods clearly indicated 2 screens were supported. If this is not the case, it is big news and should be officially clarified ASAP. This .pdf was posted in July and here is the link:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/FaceBook/RV-12ElectricalSystem-Skyview.pdf

Mitch - PLEASE take a shot at those 10 questions a few posts back! Several of us are really hungry for detailed info about what we face! Total retrofit such as you did would be the "worst case" - we can figure out what we face based on our current build status. I am totally complete except for the avionics package, for example.
 
Now I am happy that I have a 40 amp alternator on my engine. Twin Skyview here we come!

Hotscam said:
I just spoke to VAN's on the phone and understand the power budget with the standard alternator can only drive one display unit.
Power availability seems to limit the options quite bit.
It can deliver 20A and I am surprised thats not enough.

The drawings Rv 0 will be ready before x-mas, but I would be interested in a copy of those so we can prepare a bit to what is coming.

Pricing and lead time are still mysteries so still worried

Jack

Netherlands

RV12 90% completed waiting for Skyview
Click to expand...
 
vernhendershott said:
When their vendors stopped producing the parts that they were supplying they had no choice but to change the kit for all as they are not permitted to let us go to the market and buy major parts like engines, propellers and avionics.
Click to expand...

The D180 is still being sold by Dynon. Van's could have continued to sell the D180-based panel to the "legacy" RV-12s and only offer the Skyview on the newer ones. Seems they did a lot of work to let everyone play with the new toys. High-Five to Van's Aircraft for the effort!

--Bill
 
As I've mentioned before, our RV-12 has dual 10" SkyViews, an SL30, lighting kit, power for ANR headsets, switchable fuel pump, intercom and the Dynon autopilot.

Normal cruise power consumption is around 9A and with everything on it might go as high as 16A.

024ax.jpg


And proof it flies when all lit up :)

gtwlvairborne2141011.jpg
 
Jerry - great post. Did you implement backup batteries for one or both screens? Was there a battery charger current draw issue for them? I have heard that would be a concern.
 
Here to help, Bill!

We have one back up battery (on the P1 screen).

We have the ammeter monitoring load and the limit on the SV set at 20A and I haven't had an alert message yet for it at any time.

I haven't seen it go above 16A and I have the landing light on as a bird scarer on take-off which would be the highest potential consumption time.

We have 7 hours on the 12 so far - early days but no issues so far. I did some calculations based on published power consumption figures for the various items before installing the bits and that seems to have been pretty accurate:

Maximum (everything charging, flashing and transmitting)

Equipment Amps

1 Landing light 2.00
2 Strobe lights 2.25
3 Navigation lights 0.40
4 SL30 Nav/comm tx 2.65
5 Transponder 0.34
6 SkyView #1 3.50
7 SkyView #2 3.50
8 Autopilot 1.33
9 SkyView back up battery 1.50
10 Fuel pump 1.50
11 Electric trim 0.15

Total 19.12

Minimum (normal)

1 Landing light 0.00
2 Strobe lights 0.80
3 Navigation lights 0.40
4 SL30 Nav/comm tx 0.29
5 Transponder 0.34
6 SkyView #1 3.50
7 SkyView #2 3.50
8 Autopilot 0.10
9 SkyView back up battery 0.00
10 Fuel pump 0.00

Total 8.93
 
Bill,

I'm answering the questions best I can. Some of this I did over a month ago and my fuzzy brain doesn't retain everything it used to. But let's give it a try.

1. All the new wires going aft travel the same route. There is no need to remove any control linkages. Two holes at specified locations need to be drilled in the forward most bulkheads. As I recall, the new bundle consisted of two twisted pairs, one multiconductor cable (4, I think), a power wire for the Nav lights that splits under the seats and goes to either side of the aircraft, a new wire that splits at the same place, is routed to the area of the headphone jacks and gets tied off (not terminated), and another wire that goes to the area of the ELT and gets tied off.

The frustrating part is getting the bundle thru the front half of the main spar center section. The hole is chock full. The prescribed method is to remove the tube previuosly used for static pressure (now used for pitot input to the ADHARS) to the front of the main spar, then reinstall it along with the new wiring bundle. It is tight. So take your time.

2. A portion of some of the existing cables behind the instrument panel are too long with the new system. They will have their slack pulled back into the forward tunnel and secured.

3. The ADHARS bracket is drilled to the top aft skin. The template perfectly aligns them. You'll have to drill out the rivets that previuosly attached the magnetometer bracket to get it out. ONly touch up required will be for the 8 blind rivets holding the ADHARS bracket.

4. I dreaded removing the control cables too. Turned out, it wasn't so bad. Took less than an hour to remove and reinstall.

5. I don't recall a sync wire and I don't have the schematic in front of me to check. But mine are synced.

6. Existing com and transponder antennas are reused and left in place. Ther is a short cable extension supplied for the transponder.

7. No bracket for the ADS-B module. The new central module has a 9 pin outlet for it whebn it arrives.

8. The new fuel pressure sender is smaller and uses a different bracket whick is supplied. It mounts in the same place.

9. No ther changes were made to the firewall.

10. The USB port is installed under the shelf and is very easy to get to.

Hope this helps folks.
 
aerofurb said:
Maximum (everything charging, flashing and transmitting)

Equipment Amps

1 Landing light 2.00
2 Strobe lights 2.25
3 Navigation lights 0.40
4 SL30 Nav/comm tx 2.65
5 Transponder 0.34
6 SkyView #1 3.50
7 SkyView #2 3.50
8 Autopilot 1.33
9 SkyView back up battery 1.50
10 Fuel pump 1.50
11 Electric trim 0.15

Total 19.12
Click to expand...

Jerry,
One load you over looked (don't feel bad, a lot of people do)

The main storage battery.

The main storage battery can easily pull 10+ amps after adding takeoff power, to recharge after doing an engine start. Particularly if the airplane has sat idle for a while and the battery voltage is down a bit.
 
Hmmmm - if that was the case, then the net addition for the SV mod shouldn't be a deciding factor. I'm sure that the 2-screen D-180 and lights, AP, etc. load is more than 12 amps so they would have been blowing all the time if the plan had been for a battery to need 10 amps from time to time. Would be interesting to see a D180-SV installation load comparison published. Also I am not sure about the electrical action associated with battery charging in this kind of a circuit and the effect on an alternator/voltage regulator. I'll pull down my Bingelis and Nuckolls books and read up on it.

But Mitch - can you shed light on this - either a,b,c,d?
a> 2 screens, no problem
b> The SV option will be 1 screen only
c> 2 Screen SV is going to involve some placarded load shedding (??? ??? ???)
d> You know the answer is not "a" but you cannot say. (!)

THANKS for your previous post! Anything more that you think of will be appreciated.
 
Bill,

As I understand it, there will not be an option for a second Skyview screen. The marginal power capacity was not the only consideration in this decision. I believe a big part of it was that only a half a handful of RV-12 builders opted for the second D-100 screen. With the increase cost of the Skyview over the D100, 7" or 10", I don't think there would have been many buyers.

Plus, with my own experience so far with the 10" Skyview, there is plenty of room for what I need/want to see.
 
I was thinking I will use the space for a backup steam gage airspeed and maybe an altimeter or compass. Since then my IPAD has proved such a valuable asset I might just make an IPAD mount.
 
Well, I was certainly going to order it! Post-inspection now, I guess. There was an initial readability problem with the 7" Skyview due to font size and scaling. They have changed that. I do not (yet) know the difference between the power consumption of a 7" and 10" but a secondary 7" is a possibility.
 
skyview

does any one know how the factory built light sport can use dual
screens and lights and autopilot with the rotax 912?
 
I might consider adding a new Garmin Aera 796 although the IPAD has appeal. You would have some semi-backup air instruments (but not engine) with the Aera and backup Nav as well, plus charts etc. But the 7 inch Skyview is appealing as well. Hmmmm.

I think we'll all be doing some electrical load calcs in the future! It would help to know Van's actual experience with the 2 screens, the margin they were at on power, the calcs they used, and how adding a Garmin or similar would impact those calcs. Note that the pdf on the new electrical system has provisions for another GPS as well as an ADSB receiver. Also Jerry's experience as previously posted in this thread, etc. I bet we will soon find out from someone what cowling and other mods are necessary to add the optional Rotax alternator.
 
Bill_H said:
I might consider adding a new Garmin Aera 796 although the IPAD has appeal. You would have some semi-backup air instruments (but not engine) with the Aera and backup Nav as well, plus charts etc. But the 7 inch Skyview is appealing as well. Hmmmm.

I think we'll all be doing some electrical load calcs in the future! It would help to know Van's actual experience with the 2 screens, the margin they were at on power, the calcs they used, and how adding a Garmin or similar would impact those calcs. Note that the pdf on the new electrical system has provisions for another GPS as well as an ADSB receiver. Also Jerry's experience as previously posted in this thread, etc. I bet we will soon find out from someone what cowling and other mods are necessary to add the optional Rotax alternator.
Click to expand...

I am flying with the 796 in my Gobosh 700 and love it. I would gladly have one in my RV-12. I have flown with both the iPad and 796 and the 796 is far more readable in my opinion. Of course it still draws power. I am looking at putting it permanently into my Gobosh and removing the 496 once Air Gizmos brings out their mount, hopefully in January. Of course I am probably 6 months or more away from having to worry about it in my -12 but it is an attractive option.
 
Fair point and well made, Scott. I have to admit it isn't something I calculated for.

In reality though, the Rotax starts a nano-second after the PC680 battery starts to spin the prop. Next time I start the motor I'll check what the initial load is.

I had a PC680 in our 200HP/CS prop RV-6 (battery box in the back of the baggage compartment for CofG reasons) and it spun that engine over fine too.

The point I make is that very little charge is removed from the battery on start and by the time the mighty Rotax is up to flying temps it is probably fully charged.

I have an 'intelligent' battery charger for use when updating the SkyView databases etc and even after a couple of weeks of sitting idle, the PC680 is fully charged literally within seconds.

All I can report on is what we see on the ammeter so far and although it's early days, we're happy that there is a safe margin between alternator output and maximum possible load.

At work we are the UK Tecnam dealers and our demonstrator P2002-JF (very similar to the 12 power and MAUW, configuration etc but it's useful load is around 50lb less, climbs 20% slower and cruises 12 kts slower... ;) ) has non-LED position lights, landing light and strobes plus a GNS430 and Garmin transponder. Fly it with all the lights on and it drains the battery (Italian motorcycle 19A job) very quickly even in the cruise. This shows the power (no pun intended!) of using LED lights.

It was fairly easy to find out loads for the various bits of equipment from the internet and there's lots of info from the good guys at Dynon on their website.
 
I have but one thing to say to you visionaries that chose to wait on Skyview, I wish I had waited too! My Sailor son, whose unit is heading back to Afghanistan this week and I flew to Georgetown, De. this morning for breakfast. We got to see some of Mitch's handywork. The Skyview is over the top. It is an incredible value and you are going to love it. The features are awe inspiring. I have seen the skyview a number of times but seeing it in the 12 added another dimension to it. Could I interest anyone in a slightly used D-180, AP74, Garmin Com and control panel? I have a feeling it's all going to be for sale!!!! Nice job Mitch!
 
Dual sky view power use

aerofurb said:
Fair point and well made, Scott. I have to admit it isn't something I calculated for.

In reality though, the Rotax starts a nano-second after the PC680 battery starts to spin the prop. Next time I start the motor I'll check what the initial load is.

I had a PC680 in our 200HP/CS prop RV-6 (battery box in the back of the baggage compartment for CofG reasons) and it spun that engine over fine too.

The point I make is that very little charge is removed from the battery on start and by the time the mighty Rotax is up to flying temps it is probably fully charged.

I have an 'intelligent' battery charger for use when updating the SkyView databases etc and even after a couple of weeks of sitting idle, the PC680 is fully charged literally within seconds.

All I can report on is what we see on the ammeter so far and although it's early days, we're happy that there is a safe margin between alternator output and maximum possible load.

At work we are the UK Tecnam dealers and our demonstrator P2002-JF (very similar to the 12 power and MAUW, configuration etc but it's useful load is around 50lb less, climbs 20% slower and cruises 12 kts slower... ;) ) has non-LED position lights, landing light and strobes plus a GNS430 and Garmin transponder. Fly it with all the lights on and it drains the battery (Italian motorcycle 19A job) very quickly even in the cruise. This shows the power (no pun intended!) of using LED lights.

It was fairly easy to find out loads for the various bits of equipment from the internet and there's lots of info from the good guys at Dynon on their website.
Click to expand...

If you are willing: this would be a good test.
Drain the battery more than usual by cranking with the mags off for 30 seconds
Then let the starter cool
Then mag on, do a normal start
Turn everything on
Report the amps.

If you are still under 19A then you should always be fine.

Do note though that to get peak amps you will need to transmit on com AND ident on xpndr.
Also landing light on steady
Etc
 
Thanks for the reassuring words, sometimes I wonder if it was worth the wait, when I could have been done and flying.

Dave12 said:
I have but one thing to say to you visionaries that chose to wait on Skyview, I wish I had waited too! My Sailor son, whose unit is heading back to Afghanistan this week and I flew to Georgetown, De. this morning for breakfast. We got to see some of Mitch's handywork. The Skyview is over the top. It is an incredible value and you are going to love it. The features are awe inspiring. I have seen the skyview a number of times but seeing it in the 12 added another dimension to it. Could I interest anyone in a slightly used D-180, AP74, Garmin Com and control panel? I have a feeling it's all going to be for sale!!!! Nice job Mitch!
Click to expand...
 
aerofurb said:
The point I make is that very little charge is removed from the battery on start and by the time the mighty Rotax is up to flying temps it is probably fully charged.
Click to expand...

Actually, the alternator has a very low output with the engine running at 2500RPM or below.
So... unless you you make it standard procedure to leave most equipment off until you are ready for takeoff, you will actually be further discharging the battery until you go to full power on your take-off roll which will make the problem even worse.

I can't remember the specifics at the moment, but either the Installation or POH manual has a chart showing the output capability of the alternator based on engine RPM. This brings up another point... the practical max output is generally excepted (and I believe the chart shows this) to be more like 18 AMPs, and this output level is produced if you run the engine right at 5500 RPM. Not everyone does that, so that can also be a factor in how much surplus charging margin there is.

Incidentally, When designing aircraft systems there are requirements regarding allowed load vs charging capability. This is at least in part meant to account for situations that may result from a bunch of different circumstances happening at the same time such as low battery because of extended non use, coupled with excessive cranking to start, and then a long period running at idle power waiting out an extended hold for take-off
(This is just one example, there are actually a number of possible scenarios)

In simple terms, it is not proper to design an electrical system that relies on all of the alternator output capability. There is some leeway... low duty cycle items such as the power draw of a radio in transmit do not have to be figured into the total.
Having said that, there are are operational reasons that the second Skyview screen wont likely be offered for the RV-12. If builders choose to add it after certification, that is there choice... as well as any issues that occur because of that choice.
 
Two of them seem like overkill anyway.

For backup, there are several good handhelds on the open market, which are relatively cheap and do a good job.

Build on!
 
Driftdown said:
Two of them seem like overkill anyway.

For backup, there are several good handhelds on the open market, which are relatively cheap and do a good job.

Build on!
Click to expand...

I was going to install the dual 7 inch display. I would have thought a second display was essential especially as the GPS is now incorporated in the new 10 inch display. You have even indicated you feel there is the need for a backup in your reply.

I feel this is a modern plane and I would like to embrace the new technology rather than having to resort to backup anolog guages as some builders have suggested. The dual 10 inch Dynons which Vans had proposed looked pleasing and balanced and allowed the passenger to fly without having to pear across to the left screen.

It seems strange that the system was able to run two 7 inch screens as well as a GPS and a transponder without a problem. Two power users have been deleted.

There must be a solution for those who were going to install the dual skyview system which Vans had proposed. Does the control module still allow the installation of the second screen as shown in Vans overview of the plug and play presentation?

Julian RV120316
 
J.Coles said:
It seems strange that the system was able to run two 7 inch screens as well as a GPS and a transponder without a problem. Two power users have been deleted.
Click to expand...

Even though you can no longer see them on the panel, those two units are still present (otherwise those functions would no longer exist)

A second screen doesn't interface with the control module, it daisy chains off of the primary screen.
 
So fellas, it appears there will not be the option for the second SV screen. So what are your thoughts (for those of you still waiting on avionics)?

After certification, just leave that side of the panel as is? Install a steam gauge for backup? Install an iPad?

Speaking of the iPad, I have REALLY been trying to justify the purchase of one, and going in my panel would be all the reason I need. But seeing as how my empennage / tailcone box just showed up last week, that's a long way off. I have read all of the posts on using the iPad, and like others, I just don't know how the screen will be visible enough to make it useful? Some say it can be seen fine, while others say that's not possible. I for one, am thoroughly confused!

For those waiting on the new avionics, what are your plans now, based on this preliminary (but most likely definitive) information from Van's?
 
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I don't know that Vans has made it official that there will be no option for twin Skyviews. Despite the reputable indications stated on this thread, I'd like to wait and get that news from Vans in an official format. When I talked to them at Oshkosh this year, they told me there would be a twin Skyview option. I'm hoping it's still in the works.
 
diamond said:
I don't know that Vans has made it official that there will be no option for twin Skyviews. Despite the reputable indications stated on this thread, I'd like to wait and get that news from Vans in an official format. When I talked to them at Oshkosh this year, they told me there would be a twin Skyview option. I'm hoping it's still in the works.
Click to expand...

I'm also hopeful of that! I'm just afraid that when then finally calculated all the electrical / current draw requirements, it's too close to the max range they feel comfortable with. But like you, I hope something changes and that there is an option for a second screen. We know they read the forums, and that's a good thing!
 
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I like the AERA 796. I like a dedicated aviation unit, designed for that purpose. I like the idea of a backup nav source and the GPS-derived backup instruments. Plus it has charts. I like the idea of cockpit weather - although Dynon's eventual ADSB-in will provide for that without the subscription costs.

I am investigating the power issue in more detail, particularly the issues with a 7 inch rather than 10 inch Skyview screen. I am hoping for a detailed article by Vans on the power budget issues with the 10 inch screens. The second SV screen would be preferable to an Aera because you would also have backup engine instruments. It would still be a single ADHRS though. One other idea is that there may soon be a bunch of used "cheaper" Garmin 430s on the market as folks upgrade to the new touch-screen models. Add a VOR antenna and you are IFR. (OK, maybe a bit more complicated than that, worth looking into...) I intend to get an IPAD3 but not mount it in the cockpit.
My current plan is to research these things but to fly next year as a stock single-screen Skyview and have actual experience to guide my modification decisions.

Note that the total Skyview 10" screen real estate is 43.75 in2, a single D-180 is 20.25 in2 (times 2 for the additional D100 that some have= 40.5 in2) - so that is some comfort. I measured pamphlets of both that are actual size for panel planning.
 
I'm not claiming to be a master aircraft electrician here and I bow down to Scott's experience and knowledge, all I can say is what we have found so far operating our 12 with dual 10" SVs. No doubt Van's are duty bound to err on the side of caution and I don't blame them.

I can't attempt to flatten the battery (or burn out the starter... ;) ) as we have a combined start/igntion switch (and please don't lecture me on that either!).

My example of potential max load was an unrealistic scenario with absolutely everything moving (AP pitch and roll, pitch trim), strobes and land light flashing, transponder transponding, back up battery charging, com transmitting, fuel pump on and so on.

In cruise we are seeing a 9A load. In the UK we are restricted to Day/VFR.

Two screens may be over the top but the fit is our choice and enables either of the crew to fly or do whatever.

Load shedding is easy if there was a charging issue as the P2 screen can be switched off independently (CB) and with the stand by instruments (a UK requirement) are always there if everything dies.
 
skyview

there are some factory made light sport aircraft with dual skyview in
them with rotax 912 I wonder how they do it?
 
Which ones please? Might have no autopilot, for example. Will be good for research to know. Note Jerry's RV-12 in this same post. Van's will be very cautious in what they issue as E-LSA.
 
edward7048 said:
there are some factory made light sport aircraft with dual skyview in
them with rotax 912 I wonder how they do it?
Click to expand...

They may use the higher output add on alternator that is available as an option. This alternator can not be installed on an RV-12 without a complete redesign, firewall forward
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
They may use the higher output add on alternator that is available as an option. This alternator can not be installed on an RV-12 without a complete redesign, firewall forward
Click to expand...

Thanks for keeping us updated with this Scott. When you say it is a complete redesign of the firewall forward would there be a chance we just need to modify the top cowl a bit? Silly question I guess.

Can I also clarify if the control module shown in Vans plug and play article still has a space to install the second skyview screen?

Cheers

Julian 120316
 
J.Coles said:
Thanks for keeping us updated with this Scott. When you say it is a complete redesign of the firewall forward would there be a chance we just need to modify the top cowl a bit? Silly question I guess.

Can I also clarify if the control module shown in Vans plug and play article still has a space to install the second skyview screen?

Cheers

Julian 120316
Click to expand...

Installation of the add-on alternator would require a redesign of the entire cooling system, cabin heat system, and possibly external cowl shape (it mounts on the fwd left side of the engine... right in the middle of the space for the air duct used for the oil cooler and radiator.

The Control Module never had provisions for the second Skyview screen, because the second screen connects directly to the primary screen.
 
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