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Jumping Jack Flash

J

Jackkclark

Well Known Member
Parachuting from RV12?

From what I have seen and heard, the test pilots who take the RV's for their first test flights always wear parachutes. Is it possible to parachute out of an RV12? The bubble tilts up / forward into the airflow which I would think would make it an impossible task...unless we hit the "eject" button and "blow" the hinges.
Next, how would one escape from from the RV12 if it flipped over onto its top?
[email protected] AKA JUMPING JACK
 
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Jackkclark said:
Next, how would one escape from from the RV12 if it flipped over onto its top?
[email protected] AKA JUMPING JACK
Click to expand...

The same we RV-6 tip-up canopy drivers will have to exit.......you bust a hole in the canopy.

You need to carry something in the plane that can be used as a canopy breaker. In my case, the copilot stick is removable and would be used as a tool for shattering the canopy. Hopefully this will remain in the theoretical realm........
 
Parachutes-not so many!

I do not think most wear parachutes. How about one of you survey types ask us about chutes on first flights?
 
When I looked at the RV-12 prototype at OSH a few years ago, the canopy had what appeared to be quick release pins instead of the pivot bolts that are on production models. I never asked Van's employees to verify my assumption.
Joe Gores
 
Vern said:
I do not think most wear parachutes. How about one of you survey types ask us about chutes on first flights?
Click to expand...

Vern, at your suggestion, I just created a poll in the "General Discussion" forum. Note this is not limited to RV-12's as there are only about 140 RV-12's that have flown. Here's the link to the poll.
 
I'd like to find a discussion on proper techniques for egress with a parachute from an RV. It may vary for different models and situations, but if wanting to egress for emergency reasons in straight and level flight, there must be some technique that offers the best chance of survival.
 
diamond said:
I'd like to find a discussion on proper techniques for egress with a parachute from an RV. It may vary for different models and situations, but if wanting to egress for emergency reasons in straight and level flight, there must be some technique that offers the best chance of survival.
Click to expand...

I may have missed it somewhere in the last 15 years I've been in the RV community but I don't recall ever hearing of anyone jumping from an RV while wearing a parachute (there was one incident with no chute but that's not what you are asking).

If that is indeed correct, there isn't anyone who can share recommendations based on personal experience with leaving a flying RV. Conventional wisdom is that if you need to jump from a crippled RV in order to survive.........you have a major problem.

That explains the oft-repeated emphasis on building a safe airplane....and why chutes are seldom worn.
 
Breaking canopy

I've seen some other posts on breaking the canopy to exit, but it would be useful to get some feedback from someone who has actually done it. How much effort does it take, and what's the most effective type of tool. ie hammer, co-pilot stick, something sharp, house-brick, etc?

Also, where do you put it and how do you secure it for quick release? No point having it if you can't put your hand on it instantly in an emergency, when chances are you will probably be disoriented and possibly injured as well.
 
diamond said:
I'd like to find a discussion on proper techniques for egress with a parachute from an RV. It may vary for different models and situations, but if wanting to egress for emergency reasons in straight and level flight, there must be some technique that offers the best chance of survival.
Click to expand...

Why? The flight history of thousands of RV's that have already flown indicates this is a remote possibility. As Sam stated, "If you need to jump from a crippled RV in order to survive.........you have a major problem."
 
I flew Billy Waters RV6A for 80 or so hrs back in the 90's. It was a pop top model (as opposed to slider) and it did have a quick release device to separate the canopy from the airplane. Never heard of anyone having to use one on any RV. Obviously the 12 is not so equipped. When I was flying my RV6A (slider model) I carried a small hammer which is supposed to break the canopy in an emergency. Don't really know if it would as I can't find a canopy anyone will let me try to break. I always believed that if I inverted the 6A the canopy would break in the impact. I suspect the 12 canopy would break as well. I may start carrying that little hammer in the 12 tho.
Dick Seiders
 
rgmwa said:
I've seen some other posts on breaking the canopy to exit, but it would be useful to get some feedback from someone who has actually done it. How much effort does it take, and what's the most effective type of tool. ie hammer, co-pilot stick, something sharp, house-brick, etc?

Also, where do you put it and how do you secure it for quick release? No point having it if you can't put your hand on it instantly in an emergency, when chances are you will probably be disoriented and possibly injured as well.
Click to expand...

There is a considerable amount of discussion on this topic preserved in the forum archives. Use the Search button (located at top of this page) to find several threads. I searched "shatter" and "break canopy" and found many threads on this topic that I recalled from years past.
 
Upside down 6A

As one who helped rescue a pilot who was upside down in his 6A, Frank Eldridge (do a search).

Frank ended up in the baggage area and had to use his knife to punch out a exit in the left rear slider canopy area. The whole story and recommendations have been posted and reposted several times .

I keep an F-4 canopy breaker tool on the backside of my flap tunnel on my 6A.
 
Canopy break tests...

The best post I found on the forums was this one:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=60863&highlight=canopy+hammer
This fellow actually did break tests on a canopy and posted pictures of the results. Different types of tools were used in the testing. The LifeHammer which is sold almost everywhere for breaking out car windows proved to be effective on the plexiglass RV-8 canopy used in the test.

The LifeHammer is inexpensive and easy to stow, here is a picture of one:
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=LH01

I've one in my 12, as well as a Halon:
1029116474_Rdjoo-M.jpg

I have the hammer in the upholstery pocket on the side panel.

I also think a pair of leather palm Nomex gloves would be a good safety addition as breaking out a canopy could be tough on your hands.

Tony
 
Hey Tony, the picture of your hammer is the one I have so maybe they do work.

Vern, an F-4 hammer, like from an F4 Phantom? If so can you show a picture of it?

Last thought is maybe just carry a .38 to poke a few holes in a hurry? (Remember the Spitfire pilot in Pearl Harbor?).

Dick Seiders
 
F-4 Canopy Breaker Tool

Yes! Mine came from an F-4 at the DM boneyard. It was the same standard USAF model used in AF jets.
 
Regarding the original post, I gotta say that most first flights are conducted mostly or completely at an altitude where a chute is more hindrance than help. Don't y'all think?
 
aerhed said:
Regarding the original post, I gotta say that most first flights are conducted mostly or completely at an altitude where a chute is more hindrance than help. Don't y'all think?
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No, not really.
Emergency chutes by design open pretty fast.
I think you might get it to open in time from as low as 200 feet.
Depending a lot on your vertical and horizontal speed.

I went up 3,000 feet on my first flight. It was to be able to glide back to the airport and not have to stay directly over it.

Getting out of course is the issue. How long will that take???
One can move pretty fast when your life is at stake.

I didn't wear a chute and I'm (was) an experienced skydiver.
My first flight was 3 years ago and I don't remember thinking about wearing a chute that much.

Mark
 
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Yep

aerhed said:
Really? That's like 3 seconds.
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Well, I said "I think you might get it to open in time from as low as 200 feet".
Double that altitude, say 400 feet and your chances are much better.

If you pull the ripcord as soon as you clear the aircraft you still have a horizontal vector that really helps the time issue. I've done it before with a main, not a reserve. The chute opens as much behind you as it is above you.

That's just my opinion. I was a skydiver years ago, I'm not a parachute designer/expert.

Mark
 
aerhed said:
Regarding the original post, I gotta say that most first flights are conducted mostly or completely at an altitude where a chute is more hindrance than help. Don't y'all think?
Click to expand...

I have seen many reports of glider pilots bailing out at 600 ft and being OK and even spoken to one.

The emergency chutes open much quicker than the sport chutes...:)

IIRC the UK club rule was any time you expected to go above circuit (aka pattern) height you had to wear a chute.
 
parachuting from RV12

My father in law built a Van's RV....sliding canopy. He and the the "test pilot" had a handshake agreement that "if anything went wrong, he was bailing out." He wore a chute. I believe that the two guys with the video of hitting the hawk were wearing chutes...but that is a little different, they were doing aerobatics.

I hope I never have to find out how hard it is to break out the canopy while laying upside down. Quick release pens.....thats a thought.
 
Poll Results

Jackkclark said:
From what I have seen and heard, the test pilots who take the RV's for their first test flights always wear parachutes...<SNIP>
[email protected] AKA JUMPING JACK
Click to expand...

Jack, see the other thread in the General Discussion forum. The poll indicated there are about FOUR times as many pilots who have flown initial test flights in RV's who DID NOT wear a parachute for that test flight versus those who DID wear a parachute.
 
Slider canopy

Does anyone have information or experience on being able to slide open the canopy of an 8 in flight? I think I remember reading several years ago that someone tried and failed getting it to open while aloft. I would like to wear a chute while testing but this little potential problem has been troubling me, so I am glad this thread came up.

Has there been a quick release mechanism designed and built by someone?

Cheers

Jim
 
Jimboscr said:
Does anyone have information or experience on being able to slide open the canopy of an 8 in flight? I think I remember reading several years ago that someone tried and failed getting it to open while aloft. I would like to wear a chute while testing but this little potential problem has been troubling me, so I am glad this thread came up.

Has there been a quick release mechanism designed and built by someone?

Cheers

Jim
Click to expand...

Several of our RV-8 folks have tried to open the canopy in flight and found that they could only get it open less than a foot and if they let go it came forward again.

We have replaced the bolts that hold the side rollers to the welded frame with Pip Pins that have a split ring about the size of a quarter on the pull pin so that when you pull the ring the center pin comes out some and allows the balls on the side to retract and the pin comes right out. With one on each side pulled out the canopy can be pushed up and the wind would slide under it and remove it from the aircraft, yes it may take the fin and rudder with it. We have not had anyone give it a try as yet. Most also carry a breaking tool in case they flip on landing and are stopped upside down.

The RV-7 and RV-8 guys fly a lot of close formation and most wear a parachute in case they get damaged by a mid-air. So far all has gone well if you do not count the exhaust pipe that fell off of the lead aircraft and hit the prop on number 4.

Best regards,
Vern
 
Slider

Thanks Vern

I think I can visualise what you are describing. However do you or anyone else have a photo or drawing of the modification, just to make sure I understand properly?

Cheers

Jim
 
Jimboscr said:
Thanks Vern

I think I can visualise what you are describing. However do you or anyone else have a photo or drawing of the modification, just to make sure I understand properly?

Cheers

Jim
Click to expand...

Hi Jim,

I will try to get some pictures over the weekend.

Best regards,
Vern
 
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