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Lomcevak in an RV?

So even before I finished my PPL, I was always kinda curious about aerobatics. I thought that Lomcevaks especially looked very cool, and ever since I have wanted to do one. Well today I was out doing some intermediate aerobatics in a Zlin 242 (Lyco AEIO-360). I asked my instructor if he could do Lomcevaks in the Zlin. He said he'd tried before, but hadn't been able to get it to go. BUT, we had some extra time so he told me to go ahead and try it if I wanted.

So first attempt I dive for airspeed then pitch to 45 degrees nose high and start an unloaded roll to the left, planning on putting in rudder and forward stick once we drop to 60 knots, but the nose drops too soon and starts speeding up before we got below 70. So second attempt I pitch up almost completely 90 degrees vertical and start an unloaded roll to the left. I watch the airspeed and the needle hits 60 so I stomp on the right rudder and throw in forward left stick. For a few seconds, nothing. And then all of a sudden the plane goes into a beautiful, clean tumble. :D It was great! It only tumbled once before it ran out of energy and started to decay into a spin. But my instructor was pleased because he had never been able to do a lomcevak and now he knew that his plane could do it, and I was pleased because I finally got to do one. :)

So I'm wondering if, say, an RV-4 with a similar amount of horsepower could do a lomcevak. I haven't ever heard of it being done, so I'm curious. Anybody ever try it? How'd it work out for you?
 
Lomcevak

I do alot of aerobatics in my RV-4.. what you can do without an inverted system anyway...

I was told by Van and I can produce it in writing in one of his newsletters from years ago, that he discouraged snap rolls in the RV-4 so I would guess
that would include the entry portion of the lomcevak.

I know alot of folks snap the RV series but I don't... I have an S1S for that.

Chris M
 
Some years ago I owned a Zlin 526F, the original instigator of the Lomcevak...

It used to do it very nicely because it had a long nose, plenty of gyroscopic effect and it snapped cleanly.

I would never, ever consider attempting one in an RV.
 
Before you or your cfi attempt another lumcevak in the zlin 242 make sure AD 2003-11-12 is complied. do it with lots of cushion below you! My first one came with this recommendation from an IAC Hall of Famer!
 
So I'm wondering if, say, an RV-4 with a similar amount of horsepower could do a lomcevak. I haven't ever heard of it being done, so I'm curious. Anybody ever try it? How'd it work out for you?

I know a retired USAF O-6 that does them in his RV. He is really good and pretty fearless mostly because he is really good! :)
 
I would never, ever consider attempting one in an RV.

Care to elaborate? Is it because of what Christopher Murphy said about snap rolls?

Before you or your cfi attempt another lumcevak in the zlin 242 make sure AD 2003-11-12 is complied. do it with lots of cushion below you! My first one came with this recommendation from an IAC Hall of Famer!

Oh I made sure we had plenty of altitude. I'll look to the AD, since it covers the L model, and his plane is an L model. Thanks for the heads up.

It seems as though I'm getting conflicting opinions on this matter, so I have emailed Van's directly. I will post the response when I get it.
 
I think I can tell you what Vans will say. The RV is a cross country aircraft that can do sportsmans acro. Perfect for what I wanted and it almost owns the niche. Its not built for hard core acro. That has always been Vans position.

George
 
I did one yesterday in the giles just to see my gmeter. After reseting my g meter, my gentle pull to vertical was 4gs. after applying full rh rudder deflection and full 1.30 stick position my g meter climbed to 6 g,s by the end of all the tumbling. After reseting the g meter again i tried one to the left just for the heck of it and the final g reading was 5 gs.... I dont know what the g limitations on the rv 4 or how it will behave, are but these were my own results on an unlimited acro ride with lots of flight controls effectivity!
 
Received a reply from Van's today:
Lomcevak is not a recommended maneuver in an RV. The RV's were
designed for 'Gentlemans' aerobatics...loops, rolls, imellmans and the like.
Snap maneuvers are a bit more 'hard core' than what was intended in the
RV design. Van's

Darn. :mad:
 
I did one yesterday in the giles just to see my gmeter. After reseting my g meter, my gentle pull to vertical was 4gs. after applying full rh rudder deflection and full 1.30 stick position my g meter climbed to 6 g,s by the end of all the tumbling. After reseting the g meter again i tried one to the left just for the heck of it and the final g reading was 5 gs.... I dont know what the g limitations on the rv 4 or how it will behave, are but these were my own results on an unlimited acro ride with lots of flight controls effectivity!


Did you mean -6g? All the lomcevaks I've ever seen or done are basically negative maneuvers, save for the pull up. My Extra 230 was very good at gentle lomcevaks, I could do very nice tumbles in that at about -4g's. The higher the entry speed, the higher the g's.

The only reason I ask is, unlike the Giles, and other true aerobatic planes, the RV has a lower limit for negative g's than positive, another good reason not to do them in an RV.

I have a fair amount of aerobatic experience in Pitt's and Extra's up through Unlimited competition and airshows, and personally would feel very uncomfortable snapping, positive or negative, any plane that does not have a carry through wing spar, or steel tube fuselage. But YMMV.
 
IMHO This sounds like a "closed casket" waiting to happen. If you want to do these types of acro, get a plane designed for it.
 
If you wanna tumble an RV, it will help to have the longest, heaviest 2-blade metal prop you can find, running at the highest RPM possible when you enter the maneuver. Actually, I'd add some lead weights to the ends of the prop blades to make the gyroscopics really pop. Oh, and make sure you're over an airport so you can land when your crank/flange breaks...assuming you don't fold the vertical fin. On second thought, just carry a chute and slide the canopy back before take-off to clear your egress path from the airplane. ;)
 
Did you mean -6g? All the lomcevaks I've ever seen or done are basically negative maneuvers, save for the pull up. My Extra 230 was very good at gentle lomcevaks, I could do very nice tumbles in that at about -4g's. The higher the entry speed, the higher the g's.

The only reason I ask is, unlike the Giles, and other true aerobatic planes, the RV has a lower limit for negative g's than positive, another good reason not to do them in an RV.

I have a fair amount of aerobatic experience in Pitt's and Extra's up through Unlimited competition and airshows, and personally would feel very uncomfortable snapping, positive or negative, any plane that does not have a carry through wing spar, or steel tube fuselage. But YMMV.

Yes...thanks for the correction....small detail ommited! +4gs on entry. -6g's RH -5G's LH...same speeds...maybe different excitment pushes on the stick! good eagle eye catching my mistake !

YMMV???? Please Esssplain that one.....

Listen to Eric Sandifer (soon to be married and soon to be a missing man......(She likes horses))
 
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