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EVO/RV-8 Decision

Pirate

Pirate

Member
Hello Everyone! First time poster, long time reader. The shop is complete and I am ready to order my tail kit. The decision is narrowed down to a RV8 or EVO Rocket.

Questions:

1. Can a 6'5" skinny bloke fit in an EVO?

2. Does anyone have actual cruse speeds in a RV8 with an IO-390?

3. I plan on have the aircraft fully IFR, which would be better suited? (handling wise)

4. Is it also correct that the EVO is a quick build only?

5. Planning on doing long x-country flights, which is better suited? (handling, speed, baggage, and comfort)

Thanks!
 
The bad news is, that Mark is no longer selling F-1 kits. the exchange rate got so far out of hand that he stopped importing them.

The good news is there are some out there for sale, but they are getting scarce.

Either is an excellent IFR platform, if properly equipped. The RV-8 has a better CG range, the forward baggage allows more flexibility... The EVO rocket is a bit aft challenged and if you want to haul big folks in back, keep the tanks full and the baggage very light.

The Rocket is fast. I have a G-430 and it has a page called "Trip Statistics." It was reset when I upgraded to WAAS and since then it has 50,000 miles at an average speed of 193.5 nm/hr.... That is an incredible number....

Both are great airplanes. Good luck....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F-1 EVO
 
Thanks for the info Doug!

I guess that makes things a little easier. Can't believe I didn't read that somewhere. Maybe I should contact Mark and see if he want to open a factory in Shenzhen.
 
Harmon rocket

You can still build a Harmon Rocket though if you still want to go the rocket route...slow build.
 
As one of few IO390 RV8's flying, I recently got my wheel pants on and saw 180+ kts at 2450/24.5. I don't remember fuel flow exactly, but think it was about 10-11 gph.

Unfortunately, I managed to screw up my right foot (requiring surgery) right after the flight and could not do any followup flights, so this data is very prelim. But with 170+ kts consistent before pants, and a good setup on my AFS EFIS, I think the speed is in the ballpark.

Not sure yet it makes a difference, but I do have a Clark fastback and James cowl/plenum.
 
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deene said:
As one of few IO390 RV8's flying, I recently got my wheel pants on and saw 185-190 kts at 2450/24.5... I don't remember fuel flow exactly, but think it was about 10-11 gph.
Click to expand...

That would be truly extrordinary RV-8 performance on those numbers. Please keep us aprised on your testing progress. These #'s would be an order of magnatutde higher than anything we have seen before.
 
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RV8?

Why build an RV8 at all...? kind of an RV4 make more people fit plane. Not even in the Rocket class period. The EVO is a fine ship! :) We're talking performance here... please don't spank me for that!! :D If you're not looking for this type of perfomance, build an RV7 and give everyone flying more comfort.
 
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If cross country is your bag and you are willing to wear O2 then you need/want wingspan. That means EVO... or a hotrod -8.... The F-1 Sport wing & Harmon is 21' 10" the EVO is 24' 10" RV-8 is 24 feet. Span is a big deal at 18,000 feet.

My EVO will true 200 kts at 17,500 solo on 10 GPH. That is 20 nmpg, and that is impressive.....

You would have to ask Kahuna about the Super-8 speeds at altitude.

There is another consideration... And.... I am pretty sure Kahuna won't agree, and I am ok with that, but you are looking for opinions so I will share mine. I welcome other opinions without any ill feelings.

I don't consider the Super-8 to be an aerobatic airplane. The Rocket & the RV's are +6 airplanes and I never exceed +4 in them. Even then, my Rocket and both my RV-4's before it have/had smoking rivets....

If I flew a Super-8 I would treat it as +4 airplane and I would never exceed 2.5 to 3G in one. (The S/E Cessnas are 3.8G airplanes) That precludes acro on all but the smoothest days with the smoothest pilot flying....

If you stay below 10K the speed penalty from the square wing Rocket isn't that big of a deal at all.

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
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Thank you everyone, now I am back at the starting blocks. Mark just contacted me and said he will be in the position to restart production if he could get a few more folks on the list. I will first need to try one on.

Reiley, how much for the kit and who has it?
 
B25Flyer said:
My EVO will true 200 kts at 17,500 solo on 10 GPH. That is 20 nmpg, and that is impressive.....

You would have to ask Kahuna about the Super-8 speeds at altitude.

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Click to expand...

My S8 cant touch that speed. Was just at DA 20k' the other day (finally got my built in O2 in. Yipee) and I was 186 KTAS with pax and bags 10.2 gph ROP. Your numbers Doug really show the EVO's strengths up there. I cant get 200KTAS above DA 9.5k' looking at my performance charts.

Your EVO is smokin at altitude. Thats pretty cool.:cool:
 
Smoking rivets...

B25Flyer said:
...Even then, my Rocket and both my RV-4's before it have/had smoking rivets....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Click to expand...

My apologies for diverting the thread- Where on your -4's did you find smoking rivets and what did you do?

Dean Pichon
RV-4
Bolton, MA
 
On the RV-4, a few places I remember, is above the lower engine mount attach points where the firewall attaches to the fuse.... and around the rudder hinges on the vertical stab....

Nothing serious. Both my RV-4s were pushing 1000 hrs, and what I did about it was I sold them... Not because of that, but all they needed was to be drilled out and redone.

The Rocket now has 900 hrs and has issues under the horizontal on the upper longeron and the bottom of the fuselage where the front of the tailspring attaches....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
I don't own either airplane so perhaps my opinion isn't worth quite as much; but I have slept multiple times at a Holiday Inn Express, and have been lucky enough to fly and ride in many of these planes.

If I had my druthers and budget, I'd now probably take a Rocket over the RV8. Weight/Height Considerations?? Not to be insulting, but Doug is..well..a "husky" boy, and me....I'm not exactly dainty myself and we managed to cram the two of us into his machine so I know it fits. That being said, the backseat ain't exactly the Taj Mahal (the RV8 wins there by a wee bit)! If I weren't working on the project I have now, I'd for sure be working on a Rocket. The RV8's are fine machines, but if you really want to get somewhere I have to admit it's hard to beat the Rocket!

All of this is almost purely subjective because there are many variables. I respect everyone's decisions because any of the options are better than most of the certified birds. Whatever you choose you'll be happy, but you'd do yourself well to get a ride in one of each before you decide. BTW, you don't "takeoff" in a rocket, you LAUNCH (I'm betting Mike's S8 is similar on the departure)! :)

Just my subjective 2 cents!

Cheers,
Stein

BTW, a "smoking rivet" is a rivet that is moving relative to the material - even in microscopic amounts. It creates aluminum dust downstream of the rivet, leaving a "smoky" trail behind the suspect/moving rivet. Dead giveaway that some rivets are starting to work. Not an emergency situation on it's own (You can find smoking rivets on most flying airliners and metal airplanes), but something to watch.
 
Another consideration is your age.

I owned my F1 for four years and found that after 2&/12 hrs of flight the aches and pains in my back and joints were getting worse as time went by. It was also becoming increasingly more difficult to get out at the end of the flight. Worse for my wife in the back seat. This was my primaary motivation for selling the F1 (a plane I dearly loved)\. Now 2 years later and (older) I have no problem with a couple of hours in an RV 8 and egress is not at all difficult.

Both planes will fit a big fella but if you have any degree of arthritis and are looking back at 60 years the Rocket may be a bit uncomfortable.
 
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Rocket Age Consideration - Helpful

Thanks for that comment about age consideration when deciding which flavor of RV-8 to select. I'm not pushing 60 - but I am starting to feel the joys of limbs that have been abused for a good number of years. So, as I am preparing to begin a build this coming December/January, I think I'll go with the vanilla RV-8.
 
Some speed data

If you go to this thread in the test section you can see the speeds of all Rockets and RV-8s that have flown in SARL races for the past 2.5 years: "All Aircraft Speeds in SARL races for 2.5 yrs." Dick Martin has a "390" in his RV-8 and you can find his speeds there. Tom Martin flies an EVO Rocket and you can find his numbers there as well.

In the general section in the thread "RV Top Speeds" Alan Carroll averaged the RV-8 (360s), F1 and EVO Rocket speeds and came up with:

RV-8 218 mph
F1 237 mph
EVO 239 mph

Bob Axsom
 
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Costs may matter

While we all dearly love speed, costs may matter also. You can go as fast as you can afford. Just the insurance on a Rocket is going to be double the price of an 8.
My 8 insurance with a million $ liability umbrella is a couple hundred dollars south of two grand. I believe Rockets are fetching just north of 4K.
I would love to have a Rocket, but, like the ole' saying,,
I wish I could afford to live the way I do :)
 
ain't that the truth

"I wish I could afford to live the way I do :)"

Yeah baby -- what he said. Just renewing my insurance -- $2700 for $100K on the hull and the std million liability...but then again, I have a few hours in type, which makes a difference, I'm told.

Currently, the problem with wanting an Evo, and actually getting your hands on one, is that the kits are not currently in production. I hope to change that soon! Wish me luck!:D

Carry on!
Mark
 
Have you built before?

I am wondering if you have built an airplane before?

If not then building one will be a daunting task. The RV-8 is a lot of work with good plans, good product support, good materials and all that. The Rocket has not got the reputation for the support that the RVs have.

I suspect that the Rocket is not a ship for a first time builder unless you have good builder $upport which will add to the cost of the finished product.
 
Huh?

gvgoff99 said:
I am wondering if you have built an airplane before?

If not then building one will be a daunting task. The RV-8 is a lot of work with good plans, good product support, good materials and all that. The Rocket has not got the reputation for the support that the RVs have.

I suspect that the Rocket is not a ship for a first time builder unless you have good builder $upport which will add to the cost of the finished product.
Click to expand...

Hey George:

Could you qualify your response please? Remember, hearsay is not admissable evidence.

Thanks!
Mark
Team Rocket LP Tech Support
 
I never paid over $3,000 for F1 insurance with the same coverage as Mark noted above and in 4 years never had trouble getting ahold of F1 Boss to get a question answered or for help, Great support.
 
gvgoff99 said:
The Rocket has not got the reputation for the support that the RVs have.
Click to expand...

I am a first time builder and am building an F1 EVO Rocket. The support received from the F1 building community is second to none - absolutely first class. Agreed there are a lot less Rocket builders than RV builders, but that does not mean the quality of support takes a second place, certainly not in my experience.
 
F1Boss said:
Hey George:

Could you qualify your response please? Remember, hearsay is not admissable evidence.

Thanks!
Mark
Team Rocket LP Tech Support
Click to expand...

Mark, You are right I need to quantify my response in doing so I hope to qualify it too. I was thinking of the preview plans and manual that Van's supplies and the Orondoff and other videos that are easily available to a first time builder. VAN's Drawings with blowups of particular assemblies are good for the first time builder even if the quantity is a bit daunting. The entire kit is pre-punched in an RV.

I understand, (hearsay), that the Rocket is well supported by people's ability to contact you and ask questions. You also supply photos and descriptions of assembly and a DVD that clearly illustrates the concept of the finished product. All good and hearsay again:). My worry for the first time builder is that when they get to a "how to" question, and there are hundreds of them, they might not call or be able to understand the information that they are given. That sort of thing can happen with an RV too but the loads of detailed drawings fill some voids with clarity. The user support at VAN's is also pretty good but even with all the folks he has we both have seen occasional comments where there were disconnects. This forum is readily available to an RV builder as well as Rocket builders. Even so there are a lot more RV builders, which equals more available corporate knowledge. If one wants to ask, eyeball-to-eyeball, questions of those that are building the odds of finding a RV builder close to home is larger than finding a Rocket builder.

The quantity and to some extent easily available quality (lots of plans and all pre-punched parts) of info for the RV seems to me (IMO) to be an easier (if building an airplane could ever be considered "easy":)) road to travel for the first time builder.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to fly at Rocket speeds and some day may look for one that some multiple builder has built.;)
 
Definition Hearsay.. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness ...


I understand, (hearsay), that the Rocket is well supported by people's ability to contact you and ask questions.
Click to expand...

I am a witness getting my info from direct experience not others, the Rocket is well supported.......................................................................therefore not hearsay.
 
William Slaughter said:
Where did you mount the O2 cylinder?
Click to expand...

Didnt want to hijack thread so I put it in the RV-8 O2 Thread

And if I may, Vans support is **** unless your a newbee asking a newbee ?. If you have a non-newbee ?, my experience has been, "We have never heard of that before." Which I know is bunk.

Mark on the otherhand, will give you a no BS position on anything. He will not blow you off with "I aint never heard of paint blisters on tanks" kind of non-sense.

GO Mark.
 
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Kahuna said:
Didnt want to hijack thread so I put it in the RV-8 O2 Thread

And if I may, Vans support is **** unless your a newbee asking a newbee ?. If you have a non-newbee ?, my experience has been, "We have never heard of that before." Which I know is bunk.

Mark on the otherhand, will give you a no BS position on anything. He will not blow you off with "I aint never heard of paint blisters on tanks" kind of non-sense.

GO Mark.
Click to expand...

Kahuna, I agree with your remarks about Mark. For those not familiar with Mark (F1Boss) Frederick, I would also add that Mark always available, he's got 'um LOTS of experience, he takes product support VERY seriously, and if you find yourself in need some help or just a professional opinion, you won't hang-up the phone wondering why you wasted your time calling... you'll quickly move on with REAL answers to your questions, REAL solutions to a problem, and a renewed confidence that Mark Frederick was the RIGHT choice.

It's said that behind every good man is an even better woman... her name is Cheryl. No, I don't have any affiliations. Mark and Cheryl are simply fine and upstanding individuals, and I'm proud to call them my friends.

Ditto from Kahuna... GO MARK!
 
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