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New Panel Design - Critiques Please

ssokol

Well Known Member
Sponsor
I spent part of the holiday break working on a design for a new panel for my RV-6A. I'm getting close to having a first cut of my home-grown avionics suite working and its time to bite the bullet and start "eating my own dog food" as they say. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Here's a pic:

6apanelconcept-1024.jpg


(Here's a link to an "actual size" image.)

So that's three iPads: two of the new 11" Pro models and one of the slightly older 12.9" Pros. Behind the scenes, those tie into two independent but synchronized FlightBox EXP systems, each with its own air data computer (ADC). The systems share a single engine monitor but are otherwise redundant.

The switches are Carling rockers from Rockerswitchpros.com. The autopilot is a TruTrak Vizion. The visible radio is a Garmin SL-40. (There will also be a VAL 2KR remote COM.) The audio panel is a PS Engineering PMA8000BTi.

In general I'm happy with everything except for the placement of the radio and audio selector panel. I originally had them above the smaller iPads but found that would not work - conflicted with the hinges and with the brackets that connect the panel to the sub panel. The autopilot is narrow enough and shallow enough that it won't be a problem.

I've left space below the left-seat display for a TTI (Turbulence Tactile Interface - aka "twist-and-click"). I didn't include it in the picture as I'm having to change the design - again - to match the new iPads. It includes two rotary encoders (knobs) and six buttons. The knobs allow you to adjust various values - altimeter, bugs, map zoom, etc. - while the buttons activate / control the six functions labeled across the bottom of the displays.

Is it overkill for a VFR RV-6A? Oh yeah! It's a test bed. It's a demo. It's an obsession...

A big shout-out to Shawn Mack for cleaning up a copy of the sock RV6 DXF file which I used as a starting point. It had to be modified a bit (my 6A doesn't completely match factory specs) but it was absolutely necessary to get things rolling.
 
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Pretty nice looking panel.

Are you really planning on that many circuit breakers, or is that just something you did to fill out the area?

How did the engine data acquisition project go?
 
Breaker, breaker...

I don't know that I'll actually use all six of the auxiliary breakers, but the first 20 are legit. I think one of the extras will be used for an auxiliary plug in the baggage area. Another might be used for a baggage area light - still kicking that around. One may or may not go for a smoke oil pump. The others... pyro ignition? JATO ignition?

I'm almost done with the GRT integration. (I took a break over the holiday.) I'll try to finish up this week and send your system back to you next week. Thanks again for the help!
 
I'm almost done with the GRT integration. (I took a break over the holiday.) I'll try to finish up this week and send your system back to you next week. Thanks again for the help!

Glad to help, hope all worked out like you hoped it would.

Happy New Year:D
 
No center stack?

I'm not saying it can't be done but one of the reasons you generally see Com radios, Panel mount GPS and Audio panels in the center stack is because of their depth and most cut a hole in the sub panel for the depth. I'm not saying it can't be done because there are plenty of builders on this forum that are masters of thinking outside the box. Just want to make sure you consider the depth of audio panel (not as deep as the com) and your Com radio. Otherwise, the geeky side of me is all smiles because of all the glass :D
 
Transponder ?

What are you doing for a transponder, encoder and ADSB? Another reason why center stack could be useful.
 
Pretty nice looking panel.

Are you really planning on that many circuit breakers, or is that just something you did to fill out the area?

At SteinAir, we usually plan 30-35 circuit breakers for a normal 2-display Garmin or Dynon panel. Some people put fewer on the panel and add an auxiliary fuse or CB panel for less important loads.
 
A few of thoughts:
- Be careful with the low audio panel and radio mounting. The knobs stick out and you can hit them with your knees when getting in. Moving these to the center would help. Perhaps moving some of the switches left will provide the needed center space.
- Rocker switches take up way too much panel room and I consider them clunky at best. I?m a fan of locking toggle switches.
- Having the USB power on the panel translates to wires hanging down. If you move the power ports off the panel you don?t end up fighting hanging wires. Same comment goes for headphone jacks. Move those down low below the panel. I find a low center location best for both as neither pilot or co-pilot has headphone wire running across their laps when the exit the plane.

As you say this is VFR only so your reliance on iPads moves to a discussion on preferences.

Carl
 
Personally, i'd ditch the center screen and move the radios there along with a smaller GPS, like an Aera 660 in a Gizmo flush mount or maybe even a 430... I prefer a setup that maximizes both-seat operations, so the passenger (or relief pilot) can see the same thing I do, and have access to everything I do. The GPS gives a single-point backup to all of that fancy stuff that's, as you say, in testing... If everything (in the experimental EFIS stuff) goes down, a battery-powered Aera would give you everything you need to get you on the ground.
 
Some of the 2 1/4" radios have a remote radio with a small display. It would change the look but eliminate the issue of panel depth.

Dave
 
Steve,

While I?m a big fan of using the iPad as an EFB, I?m not comfortable using them as primarily flight instruments. I have the iPad Pro with Retina display and it?s great for EFB purposes. However, it does ?wash out? in direct sun light (no matter how high my brightness was set). It was also prone to overheating when I placed it on a homemade panel bracket and allowed direct sun to hit it.

I?m sure bracketbuilt fans behind the mounted iPad providing cooler air will help with the over heating issue but direct sun will still wash out the display. I commend your efforts and the engineering involved but I just don?t trust iPads in higher temps and direct sunlight for primary flight instrumentation. As a backup device, okay - but not primary. If you?re going to create a panel test bed then please include at least some conventional primary flight instrumentation as a backup to the iPad approach. Its a safety concern.

Maybe your testing will prove me horribly wrong but I don?t think so.
 
Hmm...

I use a 10.5 iPad Pro for work, and I fly about 850 hours per year. The iPad is in a Pivot brand case on a side window mount. It is not used for a PFD but I have not experienced any more "washout" on the iPad than I get on the PFDs. I have not experienced any overheating problems either...

Just another data point...
 
OP follow up...

Thanks for all the ideas. Please keep them coming!

In response to the comments and questions:

Center Stack / Radios:

Good points: I definitely see the advantages to moving the panel mount gear to the center. Less chance of snapping off a knob stepping into the airplane; easy access from either seat; no conflict with the hinges or the sub-panel braces. I wish I had smaller radios, but I really like the SL-40 (great sound quality, simple RS-232 remote control protocol) and the PMA8000BTi (lots of inputs, stereo, Bluetooth).

Air Data Information:

I've built a basic air data computer (ADC). It provides airspeed, altitude, vertical speed, and outside air temperature. It ties to the FlightBox using a hardwired link (USB) with a wireless (Wifi) backup link. It can be installed in either a single or redundant configuration.

Transponder / ADS-B / Encoder:

I am reusing the Trig TT22 and the Dynon 2020 GPS receiver that are currently in the aircraft. The TT22 is a blind mount 1090-ES unit which covers both the transponder and ADS-B Out requirements. The primary FlightBox serves as the altitude encoder. It sends the pressure altitude from the air data computer to the Trig over an RS-232 link.

Additional Breakers:

I tried to design the system to be less breaker-hungry than the competitors. I really would like to use something intelligent like the VPx, but that's a pretty invasive installation, and I'm trying to hold to a budget and use things I already have. If I need additional capacity I may move the non-critical stuff (USB power, baggage area lighting, etc.) to an ATX fuse bus.

Rocker Switches:

Yeah, they're bigger than I would have liked. They look good, but they take up quite a bit of space and they may be a bit too easy to switch. I'll look into locking toggles.

Headset Jacks

The headset jacks are under the longerons so they're relatively out of the way. The center post already has the throttle, mixture, and elevator trim controls so it's pretty cluttered. I could put them facing down under the panel. I might save that for an upgrade to powered jacks (lemo) for upgraded headsets.

USB Power Jack

That might also get moved under the panel. It's mostly there for the passenger's convenience, as all iPads are powered via USB-C / Lightning power + Ethernet interfaces. (Like the ADC and EMS, the iPads have dual connections to the FlightBoxes - wired and wireless.) Those little white rectangular cuts you see in the panel allow connectors to feed through and power the iPads.

Here's a very quick and dirty update showing things moved around a bit:

updatedpanel.jpg


I appreciate the input. Please let me know what else I might want to think about before I start cutting metal.

Thanks,

-S
 
Ipad as PFD

As a frequent IPad user and a self confessed Apple fan-boy (mostly), I would be very concerned about those IPads locking up or rebooting during a critical portion of the approach, which in actual IFR is pretty much everything starting with the transition to the IAF.



Steve,

While I?m a big fan of using the iPad as an EFB, I?m not comfortable using them as primarily flight instruments. I have the iPad Pro with Retina display and it?s great for EFB purposes. However, it does ?wash out? in direct sun light (no matter how high my brightness was set). It was also prone to overheating when I placed it on a homemade panel bracket and allowed direct sun to hit it.

I?m sure bracketbuilt fans behind the mounted iPad providing cooler air will help with the over heating issue but direct sun will still wash out the display. I commend your efforts and the engineering involved but I just don?t trust iPads in higher temps and direct sunlight for primary flight instrumentation. As a backup device, okay - but not primary. If you?re going to create a panel test bed then please include at least some conventional primary flight instrumentation as a backup to the iPad approach. Its a safety concern.

Maybe your testing will prove me horribly wrong but I don?t think so.
 
Hmm...

Again, another data point...

Have been using the iPad Pro since they came out; we have 2 onboard for redundancy. I haven't experienced a "lockup" or "freeze" yet...on either iPad on the flight deck...

...and I see 3 in this panel...
 
I?m sure bracketbuilt fans behind the mounted iPad providing cooler air will help with the over heating issue but direct sun will still wash out the display.

I have a fan mounted behind each of the iPads on the prototype panel I built this past summer. The fans are thermally controlled and have so far done a good job of managing the heat issue. This updated design provides an even bigger gap and even better air flow, so I think I should be good for anything up to the 100?F mark, which is where the iPads internal thermal protection kicks in.

I haven't come up with a perfect solution for the washout issue, but I will say that the newest generation of iPad Pros is really quite bright. I've been testing with one in a Ram mount for the past month and the only time I have any problem is when the sun is dead behind me. Even then the screen is visible - it's just a bit painful to squint past the glare. I plan to test a bunch of different glare reducers once I get this put together.

As far as a backup instrument... If I was trying to build something for IFR, I would agree completely. For VFR I think what I've built is redundant enough to handle almost any situation. The system has two FlightBoxes, each with integrated AHRS and GPS receiver. The displays are built to switch between FlightBoxes in the event of a failure. The FlightBoxes each have their own ADC.

All that said... I might consider adding one of AeroVonics multifunction displays. All of my systems are running essentially the same code. Code diversity is a good thing.
 
I am not a fan of using iPads, even for FlightAware.

Besides having them reboot and hanging at odd times, the physically don't last very long. By the time they die, you will have to buy replacements off of eBay.

A cockpit is a harsh environment because of the temperature extremes.

I also like switches arranged by the phase of flight. For example, the fuel pump should be close to your throttle. Same goes for the flap switch. Mine is arranged so that I can toggle the flaps up or down without removing my hand from the throttle.

Too many people have placed their boost pump switch right next to their avionics master. It makes me wonder how many times they have shut their panels down in flight.

Good luck!
 
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I hope...

I hope you don?t get nervous flying the airlines...nearly every one of them use iPads for their IFR maps and charts...
 
I'm not an Apple fanboy and hate that I have to use an iPad Mini 4 for my FlyQ. Still, I've never experienced a lockup on any of the three iPads I've used while flying. My iPad 3 did overheat once just after I assured Seattle center that I had on board moving map and could thread the upcoming TFRs...

For a VFR only machine I think this is great. I considered homebrewing my EFISs but a need for IFR shot that down, I wouldn't want to have to rely on an iPad to keep me alive.
 
I would not put a master next to the flaps switch! (or anything else likely to be touched in flight).

As mentioned, consider putting the flaps and boost pump switches near your throttle. My flap switch is "thumbable" with my hand on the throttle. Very handy and natural.

As for radios, remember when fiddling with them you will roll off course in the time it takes to look at them. Just ask my wingmen... The higher the better, IMO.
 
I don't know about the -6 panel, but on my 9 the angle aluminum around the back perimeter of the panel made it difficult to get as close to the edge as you appear to get in your diagram. You might need to stay 3/4" away from the edges. Your panel seems tall too, I think the drawing I used included the band on the bottom that was actually folded over. No idea if that's the same on your panel.

The other thing that I see that I wouldn't do is put the flap switch next to the master switch. Too much risk of hitting the wrong switch. I know I like the flaps next to the boost pump as they commonly flow together. Overall, your switch order might be worth reviewing with an eye on in flight usage patterns. The boost pump in the middle of your masters is another example.

The panel design philosophy that I used was that my switch placement should support the ability to find the correct switch with my eyes closed every time. I used toggle switches for that reason and they are organized in separate groups, masters on the left, lights in the middle and in flight switches (pump, flaps) on the right. An example of how this works in flight from a night flight last night - I was able to turn on my landing light quickly and easily because it's the 3rd switch from the left in my light bank. I can't read the switch labels in the dark, so that's the only way I can operate at night.

Those are my thoughts, for what they're worth.
 
Cleaned up and with switches in order...

Here's a revision with the switches put in a better (I think) order. The flap switch is now well away from the rest of the switches, but easily in reach. I probably could be talked into replacing it with a traditional flap switch (with the wedge handle) located just below the AP, as that would be reachable by thumb with my hand on the throttle.

I'm still using the bulky auto-style rocker switches as I don't have a model for a locking toggle yet. I may also try a version with standard toggles with the guards between them. The current panel has standard toggles and I've never inadvertently switched anything off, but better safe than sorry...

Full sized image here.

Full size panel only view (no instruments).

updatedpanel2.jpg
 
Umm...

"...Yes they do, but they are also required to have backups for their backups.

Also, their PFD's are not iPads..."

Umm, this is something I know a little about:

1. There are typically two iPads.

2. The paper backups are for offline alternates.

3. There is typically NO chart display capability on the PFDs in the majority of the aircraft.

The iPads have proven to very reliable, and they work well. They have been proven over many years and hundreds of thousand flight hours. That's good enough for me...
 
Independent breaker panel?

One thing that drives me a bit nuts about the current configuration of the airplane is the fact that the breakers are screwed directly into the panel. If I want to remove the panel I have to unscrew all 18 breakers, then hassle with getting them re-aligned in the right order when I put things back together.

Any thoughts on using a separate piece of aluminum to mount the breakers, allowing me to simply unscrew the breaker panel and leave it in place if / when I remove the rest of the instrument panel? Something like:

breakers.png
 
c/b

That is what I am doing in my -10. For the few c/bs that I will have, there will be an aluminum plate drilled with clearance holes for the breakers...the plate will then be fastened to the panel. That will make changes relatively easy...
 
Use Fuses

Use far more fuses. The ONLY thing I used circuit breakers for is anything related to keeping the engine turning.

Also, I used the Carling switches custom engraved by rockerswitchpros and LOVE them.

20170727_203313.jpg


image001.jpg
 
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Steve,
I REALLY like where you are headed with this.

My input (FWIW):
- Move of the radios to the center a big plus. I would also move them ABOVE
the central iPad. Mounted low is more head down time and you will need to
adjust them regularly. Also might reduce washout/glare on that iPad. Maybe
not possible due to depth/tip up hinges??
- I agree with the comments on switches. Strongly suggest locking toggles (vs
rockers) and do consider workflow in the relative placements.
- I would put power (USB) and headset (why aren?t you using Bluetooth??) out
of sight below the panel. Headsets even on the seat bulkhead behind you.

BTW: what are your plans for engine monitoring ? is that on the iPads too? I have always wondered why this (wireless tablet display and logging of engine data) isn?t a product yet...

My comments above in the context of fair weather day VFR use case.

Peter


Here's a revision with the switches put in a better (I think) order. The flap switch is now well away from the rest of the switches, but easily in reach. I probably could be talked into replacing it with a traditional flap switch (with the wedge handle) located just below the AP, as that would be reachable by thumb with my hand on the throttle.

I'm still using the bulky auto-style rocker switches as I don't have a model for a locking toggle yet. I may also try a version with standard toggles with the guards between them. The current panel has standard toggles and I've never inadvertently switched anything off, but better safe than sorry...

Full sized image here.

Full size panel only view (no instruments).

updatedpanel2.jpg
 
Steve,
I REALLY like where you are headed with this.

My input (FWIW):
- Move of the radios and AP to the center a big plus. I would also move them ABOVE the central iPad. Mounted low is more head down time and you will need to adjust them regularly. Also might reduce washout/glare on that iPad. Maybe not possible due to depth/tip up hinges??

- I agree with the comments on switches. Strongly suggest locking toggles (vs rockers) and do consider workflow in the relative placements.

- I would put power (USB) and headset (why aren?t you using Bluetooth??) out of sight below the panel. Perhaps even on the seat bulkhead behind you.

BTW: what are your plans for engine monitoring ? is that on the iPads too? I have always wondered why this (wireless tablet display and logging of engine data) isn?t a product yet...

My comments above in the context of a fair weather day VFR use case.

Peter


Here's a revision with the switches put in a better (I think) order. The flap switch is now well away from the rest of the switches, but easily in reach. I probably could be talked into replacing it with a traditional flap switch (with the wedge handle) located just below the AP, as that would be reachable by thumb with my hand on the throttle.

I'm still using the bulky auto-style rocker switches as I don't have a model for a locking toggle yet. I may also try a version with standard toggles with the guards between them. The current panel has standard toggles and I've never inadvertently switched anything off, but better safe than sorry...

Full sized image here.

Full size panel only view (no instruments).

updatedpanel2.jpg
 
EMS options, demo video.

PJC - thanks! With regard to the EMS... I'm taking two different approaches to that challenge.

I have an EMS system that I've been working on for the past couple of years. It's a work in progress, but ultimately that's what I'll offer for "greenfield" installations. The current incarnation is built for "classic" aircraft engines. It uses traditional analog sensors / senders for RPM; MAP; EGT; CHT; fuel level, pressure and flow; oil pressure and temperature; amps, volts, etc. I plan on building another version that supports more modern (UL, Rotax) engines with integrated electronics and CAN bus interfaces.

But... there are a lot of aircraft out there that already have a perfectly good EMS from somebody else. Tons of EIS systems from GRT. Lots of Dynon EMS systems. And in the certified world there are all kinds of aircraft with JPI and EI systems. Most of those 3rd party EMSs include a serial (RS-232) output that can be connected to the FlightBox which can translate the data into its internal format and display it on an iPad.

Here's a link to a demo video I put together for some friends. This isn't a live flight - I have the system slaved to a simulator - but it shows the EMS in actions. Pardon the lousy production values, poor virtual piloting, and rather inane voiceover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhaB_Ny3C78&feature=youtu.be
 
ato fuses

I used ATO fuses mounted on a hinge under the right side of the panel. It was easy and I understand there are pros and cons. I did use some switch breakers for some but mostly ATO fuses under the right side of the panel. I like how your panel is evolving.

Take care
 
Any thoughts on using a separate piece of aluminum to mount the breakers, allowing me to simply unscrew the breaker panel and leave it in place if / when I remove the rest of the instrument panel?
That is along the lines of what I did with my circuit breakers and switches.

b166.jpg


fb8b.jpg


282b.jpg


It works great!!! :cool:
 
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Transponder / ADS-B / Encoder:

I am reusing the Trig TT22 and the Dynon 2020 GPS receiver that are currently in the aircraft. The TT22 is a blind mount 1090-ES unit which covers both the transponder and ADS-B Out requirements. The primary FlightBox serves as the altitude encoder. It sends the pressure altitude from the air data computer to the Trig over an RS-232 link.
IIRC, you can't connect the Dynon 2020 GPS directly to the Dynon/Trig transponder. :cool:
 
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The iPads have proven to very reliable, and they work well. They have been proven over many years and hundreds of thousand flight hours. That's good enough for me...
One consideration to keep in mind: The airline also uses them in a different environment. We're in an exposed bubble canopy with a lot of sun. They're in a closed, sometimes even air-conditioned, cockpit with little sun to worry about (and if there is, moving it to hold it below the sunbeam is probably a lot easier than shading three on the panel).
 
Additional thoughts after your latest changes:

Center Stack / Radios:
Moving the radios over is better, but what about using three identical iPads instead of one only slightly larger one? That would give you three-way redundancy, and you could even swap them from position to position in flight if needed if one failed. That would also give you a little more room to move them all slightly closer together and away from the edges (the reinforcing angle might interfere at the outer corners). It would also give a little more real estate for the radios.

Additional Breakers:
Rocker Switches:
Have you looked at the MGL ECB unit? With the dual-lighted Carling-style switches, you could have function and breaker status incorporated into one cap... That's the route I've been considering. Then the fact that the switches are a little bigger isn't as much of a problem, as you don't have a wall of breakers to stare at.

USB Power Jack
Definitely put these under the panel. On one of the bulkheads or in the armrest would be good, it gets all the wires out of the way and (mostly) out of sight.

Those little white rectangular cuts you see in the panel allow connectors to feed through and power the iPads.
Just a thought: Make a recessed tray for each iPad, and have the connectors stick through a slot in the side of the tray, rather than flat-mount the iPads on the front of the panel with a visible (and ugly) cable showing.
 
You can find some free 3D toggle switches here: https://grabcad.com/library?utf8=✓&query=toggle switch

Here's a revision with the switches put in a better (I think) order. The flap switch is now well away from the rest of the switches, but easily in reach. I probably could be talked into replacing it with a traditional flap switch (with the wedge handle) located just below the AP, as that would be reachable by thumb with my hand on the throttle.

I'm still using the bulky auto-style rocker switches as I don't have a model for a locking toggle yet. I may also try a version with standard toggles with the guards between them. The current panel has standard toggles and I've never inadvertently switched anything off, but better safe than sorry...

Full sized image here.

Full size panel only view (no instruments).

updatedpanel2.jpg
 
Would still like to see something for airspeed that wasn’t iPad dependent. I understand this is a VFR aircraft so attitude, altitude backup isn’t so critical but airspeed is everything when the s*** hits the fan.

If I understand your setup AHRS data will be both WiFi and USB through your FlightBox. How is gps data sent? The same way or are you dependent on an iPad’s internal gps? Engine data? If all this is being transmitted to the iPads via shared usb connection with WiFi as backup then my concerns really place a higher degree on something to provide independent airspeed information. Of course, I’m not real bright when it comes to modern technology but I’m also of a generation that says “airplanes fly on airspeed.”
 
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A couple of thoughts

Overall it looks good. I am curious if you have flown behind several screens especially ones that size. I have and I get the same feeling as sitting in the 3 row at the movies. Too much stuff creating visual noise.

I agree with Rob in that consideration should be made to not having the center screen. Especially since your are VFR only. Do a conventional radio stack with the audio panel on top, com next and the auto pilot.

The switches are fine but fuel pump and flaps should be close to the throttle.

For a super clean look, spring for the VPX and get rid of the breakers.

Regarding the functionality of the iPads, they are horrible in heat and direct sunlight. In the medical helicopter I fly we use an iPad mini for manifests, charts, Foreflight, etc. It is our EFB. We cannot leave them in the aircraft if it is over 70 degrees or if parked in direct sunlight. We carry them with us. If you do get an over temp shutdown, they take quite some time to get back. With those mounted permanently there is no way to keep them out of the heat and/or direct sunlight.

The iPads are dependable but as a primary source of flight information, I'm not sure it is a great idea. There's probably a reason this hasn't been done on a wide scale.

Good luck and keep everyone posted.
 
it has been suggesterd putting the usb under the panel. I thought about that on mine but in the end it is upper right on my panel. I reasoned that if I used it in flight it might be because I was replacing a failed instrument and I didn't want to be fumbling for an unseen usb port.
a single panel is going to be much harder to access behind it. it is a lot more work to pull all those screws and juggle 50 wires while gaining access to one area. and then tuck everything back in place.
 
Would still like to see something for airspeed that wasn?t iPad dependent. I understand this is a VFR aircraft so attitude, altitude backup isn?t so critical but airspeed is everything when the s*** hits the fan.
That was the basis of my original suggestion to put a conventional GPS in the center stack with the radios, instead of a third screen. Speaking from experience, if you have an airspeed failure (or perhaps maybe forget to remove a pitot cover...) the GPS speed is more than adequate to get an airplane safely on the ground in VFR conditions.
 
Using iPads

I am just working on a redesign of my RV8 panel (gosh there is little space for anything) and although I have had some suggestions on mounting an iPad, I fly with an iPad mini on a knee-board at the moment and I do have issues with visibility but the iPad also switches off on me to protect itself from over-heating! So I have no confidence in the iPad despite its versatility and only ue it as a back-up. Apparently the iPad is more prone to this when it's on charge and it always is.

Also, Apple makes too many changes to its products in too short a time. So whereas I appreciate all modern avionics are out-of-date the moment you switch it on for the first time, I don't trust Apple to give me the support for as long as I would like to keep my panel...

So no iPad dock in my panel....
 
Test Rig / All the GPSs / Cooling

Test Rig / Too Many Screens?

I have an older panel blank that I used for a demo at OSH this past summer. It's the classic shorter panel (11" tall) so it wouldn't do for this project, but I'm going to use it as first-level prototype. I've built a simulator rig using X-Plane which I use to test various EFIS features. I'll mount the iPads on the blank and set it up on the sim and see if the center screen is useful or wasteful.

FWIW - I envision the right screen as being a passenger entertainment device as much as anything.

GPSs Galore

Several people have asked about how GPS data gets to this system. Lots of ways. Each FlightBox has a uBlox WAAS-capable GPS receiver that typically gets a lock of about 3 meters. Each iPad has its own built in GPS as a backup and to provide some cross-check capabilities. So that's a total of five GPS receivers (remember - redundant FlightBoxes).

The two uBlox receivers feed their data into the FlightBoxes via USB. The FlightBox forwards that information to the displays via either wired Ethernet or Wifi (like the other components, the displays have dual-link capability). The data is also made available in standard GDL-90 format over Wifi to any standard EFB that may connect.

The displays are built to use airspeed from the ADC if available, but will fall back to GPS ground speed if that's not available. I've tried to make the system reasonably redundant: dual core processor, dual(+) GPS, dual AHRS, dual ADC, dual(+) display, additional cabin altimeter... I don't think it matches what you would get from one of the big guys (yet) but I feel it's a pretty solid design for a VFR system.

iPad Cooling

Heat is the one significant drawback to the iPad system. To try to minimize thermal issues, the iPads are mounted about 1/4" off the panel, and each has a fan continually blowing across the back. I've been tweaking the system to try to insure we can keep everything happy. I will be testing extensively this coming summer. I may even head down to Death Valley just to see how quickly it can recover after a heat soaking.
 
I use an iPad at my airline job and it has locked up, or jepp has crashed and reloaded, or another app has done the same, multiple times. I?ve had every one of my iPhones and iPads lock up, freeze, etc. at some point, and I?m pretty good with closing out apps and restarting the devices every once in a while. I used 2 different iPads in my RV8, and I will say I would never use them as a PFD/MFD. Just about every year they change shape, so obviously I would make your panel able to accept a new shape when your iPads are no longer supported (generally at 5 years). I too am concerned about overheating and washout, even with cooling fans. Hope it works out. I wouldn?t have the stones to do it without at least a G5 or something in there as well, even VFR. Good luck...will be interested to see how it goes.
 
Demo / Fit Test

Here's a shot of a full system (less the engine monitor) I put together using the blank I cut for the booth at Oshkosh last year.

In the foreground you can see the ADC, GPS puck, and FlightBox. On the far side of the FlightBox is a 4-port USB hub. Not pictured are the power supplies for the iPads.

demopanel-1024.jpeg


Here's a link to a full-sized version for those who want a closer look.
 
Steve - this is really nice work. Which radio are you integrating with that solution ? I wondered if you have considered linking in a software defined radio solution, I?ve been looking at that and bringing in VOR and ILS using the SDR apis.

Julian
 
Checking your page and wondering when these ADC boxes will be available or am I missing something...

I think it looks great.

I would go with a center stack but I am old fashioned. I also like the portrait aspect but that's just me.
 
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