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Stratus ESG

pilotmansam

Active Member
I recently completed installation of a Stratus ESG transponder so I thought I would post my comments:
I was somewhat reluctant to go with Stratus because I would like the flexibility to use other Tablet displays, but since I had already jumped on that bandwagon with a Stratus II receiver, I just continued to drink the cool-aid.
Also, with the FAA rebate this is a pretty economical way to go especially if you really needed a transponder upgrade anyway. The advertised cost to an individual is $3000, but I believe they are giving their dealers a $1000 discount, so the "turn-key" installation was $3000. I also bought the Stratus receiver interface cables.

One small problem I had was communicating to my avionics shop that I did want to interface my receiver. They misunderstood me and did not order the interface cable. Also it turned out you actually need two cables and the installation of another coax connector on the ESG tray to complete the installation. Appareo is not at all forthcoming with detailed information on their web site which would have definitely helped me communicate what I wanted to do. One other thing I did not really like is the design of the GPS antenna. It is a big square thing and does not really look very nice on the turtle back next to my other GPS antenna. If I had know what this thing looked like I would have looked into getting another antenna.

I am pretty satisfied with the final installation. The transponder works as advertised and I have the Stratus receiver mounted under the panel on top of the battery box in my 6. I seem to be receiving more ADSB stations than before with the Stratus box on the glare shield. I flew the required FAA test flight (which was interesting since the controllers seemed to have no idea why I wanted to do all of these stupid antics.) Got the check from the FAA in the mail, which is sort of amazing. I just really didn't think they would come through.

One final comment. Even with everything working as advertised, ADSB is still no substitute for TCAS and good eyes. Any traffic not in radar coverage is not going to show up (unless of course they also have ADSB out). Several times I have been watching traffic en-route or departing my home field as I was en-route and as they descend toward the pattern they disappear.
 
ESGi

Sam,
What did your Avionics shop charge to install this in your RV-6.??
Did you install a solid state encoder & if so, what did you use?
Did the price of installing include the altimeter and associated tests on to verify the ESGi was performing correctly?
Thank You,
Oregon RV-6
 
The total price for the ESG hardware and installation was $3000. Plus about $120 for the Stratus interface cables. We reused the encoder I already had in the plane which was an older model being used with the KT76A transponder we removed. The installation price included all required ground testing. In order to verify the ADSB out functions were correct I simply flew and requested the on-line status report from the FAA. Then to get the $500 you fly another test flight and request a different report. All of these reports indicated no problems.
 
I am in the process of installing a couple of USB ports in the instrument panel for charging cell phones or whatever. Of course those USB ports require a 5 VDC supply. Seeing that my Appareo Stratus ESG has a couple of 5 volt outputs, I contacted Appareo support and asked if it was OK to use those. There response was:
Thank you for contacting Appareo regarding your Stratus Power. Each USB port supplies 2.5 amps which is enough to power two iPads or one iPad and one Stratus.
Hope this helps.
Kal
Customer Support
It seems that the Stratus ESG 5 volt output is designed for exactly what I want to use it for, a nice unexpected feature.
 
Same route

The total price for the ESG hardware and installation was $3000. Plus about $120 for the Stratus interface cables. We reused the encoder I already had in the plane which was an older model being used with the KT76A transponder we removed. The installation price included all required ground testing. In order to verify the ADSB out functions were correct I simply flew and requested the on-line status report from the FAA. Then to get the $500 you fly another test flight and request a different report. All of these reports indicated no problems.

Thanks to Sam I went to Palmetto Avionics and had Russ install an Appareo ESG. It was a very straight forward install, no problems and I actually didn't have to do a lot and lo and behold, a check from the ADSB fund arrived in 12 days for $500.
I didn't get the ADSB in because my son's father in law was so nice as to donate a Stratus 2 for the in, plus synthetic vision.
A big "good job" for Russ.
Plus, like I said before, I will have a new non touched (except for inventorying) Navworx 600B (certified version) with Transmon, transponder antenna and GPS antenna for someone when (and if) Navworx gets back in business.
 
antenna

...

.... One other thing I did not really like is the design of the GPS antenna. It is a big square thing and does not really look very nice on the turtle back next to my other GPS antenna. If I had know what this thing looked like I would have looked into getting another antenna.

......

We just finished an install of one in a friends RV-6A, and yes, the antenna is sort of big and ugly. :)

Copying others off VAF we made a simple tray under the cowling - attached to an angle bracket riveted to the firewall and an Adel clamp to the engine mount top tube.

The now hidden antenna worked well and he just passed the FAA in-flight test for his $500 rebate.
 
APPAREO STRATUS ESG (i) Installed in RV6

Purchased thru Aircraft Spruce:
Appareo Stratus ESG(i) ADS-B Out/In.
ACK 30.9 Encoder RS232.
Wiring harness for ESGi, Stratus 2i and ACK 30.9 Encoder.
The GPS Antenna was mounted on the glare shield (sideways) not fore & aft. This provided a very short & easy connection to the ESG Transponder. And I agree with Gil's comment and add that it is suitable for mounting on a Mach 2 Jet Fighter..!!
My thanks for the fantastic support from AS Avionics Supv; Cliff Vanderhyden in answering my questions and coordinating completion of my order and the technicians who wired the harness. Everything was "plug & play" and worked perfectly. Using ForeFlight.
My thanks to Tony Horvath at Speciality Aero for his installation assistance.
My thanks to Greg Ernest; Appareo Technical Rep.
My thanks to Jesse Saint for answering a couple questions during the install.
I now have a perfectly good King KT76A Mode C Transponder with ACK Encoder (gray scale); harness & tray--along with the install manual for sale. PM me if interested in a great deal.
 
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Installed Stratus ESG

Purchased from Stark Avionics in Columbus GA.
$2131 and less the $500 rebate, a pretty economical solution.

However, following installation and configuration, I still can't get a GPS signal registering on the Stratus.
The GPS antenna (yes, big and ugly) is installed on the glareshield and connected with a 10.5' loop of RG400 as instructed by Appareo customer support.

I remain more than a bit frustrated trying to get all this working and am waiting for a response from Appareo for further troubleshooting.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm more than willing to listen.

Thanks All.
 
ESG GPS Signal

Ohm out the coax between the transponder and the antenna to make sure the center conductor isn't shorted to the shielding.
Since you are in Florida; it may be worth your time to call Jesse Saint at Saint Aviation and schedule a flight to his location and have him take a look at it. He will have it fixed in short order...
 
Found it

Ohm out the coax between the transponder and the antenna to make sure the center conductor isn't shorted to the shielding.
Since you are in Florida; it may be worth your time to call Jesse Saint at Saint Aviation and schedule a flight to his location and have him take a look at it. He will have it fixed in short order...

Yes Jesse is a great guy. 20 min by RV north of me.

But I did find it. Or at least correct it. Basically just disconnected everything that had anything to do with the Stratus Xpndr and reconnect. In the course of that, I did check the TNC connections for shorts. Best I can come up with is that the TNC's weren't seated completely at either end.
Following that exercise, a 15 min flight confirmed GPS was receiving and displaying on the panel.

Unfortunately ran out of time and will complete the test flight(s) in Class B Airspace next weekend. Put the rebate in fuel fund.

Thanks
 
How long did it take you guys to get the GPS to link up the first time you powered the ESG up? I don't know if i've got a problem or am just being impatient :)

I finished installation of mine this morning. Altitude from the GRT is accurate, but I'm not getting any indication of gps activity.
Today is a low IFR day, but even with the hanger door closed, my other two gps receivers picked up the location instantly. I opened the door, and kept the ESG turned on for 10-15 minutes, removed and reinstalled the antenna cable, but it never did display a lat/long on the screen.

I Ohm'd the cable, which is good.
Is there any other way to confirm what the transponder is seeing by way of satellites, if any?
The manual says it could take up to 20 minutes. Did yours take a considerable amount of time to find itself the first time?
Do I just need to suck it up and wait for a nice day to see if this thing works?
 
How long did it take you guys to get the GPS to link up the first time you powered the ESG up? I don't know if i've got a problem or am just being impatient :)

I finished installation of mine this morning. Altitude from the GRT is accurate, but I'm not getting any indication of gps activity.
Today is a low IFR day, but even with the hanger door closed, my other two gps receivers picked up the location instantly. I opened the door, and kept the ESG turned on for 10-15 minutes, removed and reinstalled the antenna cable, but it never did display a lat/long on the screen.

I Ohm'd the cable, which is good.
Is there any other way to confirm what the transponder is seeing by way of satellites, if any?
The manual says it could take up to 20 minutes. Did yours take a considerable amount of time to find itself the first time?
Do I just need to suck it up and wait for a nice day to see if this thing works?

It took about 15 minutes as i recall the first time for it to acquire.
 
+1 on antenna length

j-red,
Does your GPS antenna cable meet the minimum length requirement?

If it isn't 10ft long it won't work. My ugly GPS antenna is on the glareshield with a 10.5' piece of rg400 coiled behind the panel.

Took about 15 min to receive the satellites.
 
I've got about 16' of RG174 which has a similar impedence to the rg400. I'll head out to the hanger again tomorrow morning when the weather is clearer and give it some more time.
Thanks for the input.
 
Confirm the impedance

Of your cable. Or if you have it, try a 10' (+) length of RG400.

I initially had a problem with coax that had different impedance. When I switched to RG 400 all was well. (I guess that should read "When I followed the instructions to the letter.....)
 
I've got about 16' of RG174 which has a similar impedence to the rg400. I'll head out to the hanger again tomorrow morning when the weather is clearer and give it some more time.
Thanks for the input.

RG174 is unsuitable for this freq, it has approx twice the loss at 1ghz as RG400. Our GPS systems operates in the 1.2 - 1.5 Ghz range.
 
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Diffrerence or not, it works. Went out today and pulled it into the sunlight and set a timer for 20 minutes. Seven minutes later, coordinates popped up on the screen. Flew for 25 mininutrs and stopped, shut down for 15 minutes then started everything back up. This time the connection was made within a couple of minutes. It seems the conclusion is that I was too impatient.
Thanks for the help, everyone.
 
Diffrerence or not, it works. Went out today and pulled ione.

Whether or not it works today is not really good enough. Will it still work next week, if the satellites happen to be less optimum?
Bottom line: This is a TSO'd device, and must be installed per the manufacturer's instructions, or technically it is not legal.
 
I've got about 16' of RG174 which has a similar impedence to the rg400. I'll head out to the hanger again tomorrow morning when the weather is clearer and give it some more time.
Thanks for the input.

RG-174 is quite appropriate for this purpose. It has almost exactly twice the loss of -400 so the minimum and maximum lengths are cut in half. I copied a page out of the RST Engineering Appareo Installation manual and will be happy to email you antenna installation images and such. I'm also happy to answer questions in this ng or by email if you prefer.

If somebody knows how to attach a pdf file to this thread I'll be happy to post the antenna page. [email protected]

Jim
RST
 
Bottom line: This is a TSO'd device, and must be installed per the manufacturer's instructions, or technically it is not legal.

Bob ... sort of. The way the regulation is written, the ESG has to MEET the requirements for TSO, not BE TSOd. And, with experimental aircraft rules, I would suspect that if you can show that you used a cable with the appropriate loss factor that would MEET the same requirements you would be good to go.

The actual requirement is for a cable with between 2 and 7 decibels of attenuation, however you choose to get it. Appareo SUGGESTS using -400 but the requirement is for the attenuation, not one specific cable.

Jim
RST
 
I am about to be doing this upgrade. Regarding the cable length...not having read the manual yet, is it really a minimum length and not a maximim? If I have a shorter run of RG 400 it won't meet the spec and/or risk not working? It needs the resistance?
 
I am about to be doing this upgrade. Regarding the cable length...not having read the manual yet, is it really a minimum length and not a maximim? If I have a shorter run of RG 400 it won't meet the spec and/or risk not working? It needs the resistance?

Garmin has the same minimum requirement of 10', which is an expectation of the installation in most airplanes, apparently. Shorter runs essentially provide too much signal strength to the receiver, is what I was told.
 
Here's a quote from the manual

I am about to be doing this upgrade. Regarding the cable length...not having read the manual yet, is it really a minimum length and not a maximim? If I have a shorter run of RG 400 it won't meet the spec and/or risk not working? It needs the resistance?

I had a short length of rg400 originally and no GPS. Finally read the manual again and found this. All works now.

Manual%20capture_zpslekpkxrk.jpg


As pointed out earlier by those smarter than I, there are other alternatives but you have to deal with picking the length to obtain the 50 ohm impedance.
 
As pointed out earlier by those smarter than I, there are other alternatives but you have to deal with picking the length to obtain the 50 ohm impedance.

If you use something other than the example given, it still has to be 50 ohm cable, and its loss has to fit the minimum and maximum given. So 16' of RG-174 does work; but 19' would be too lossy.
 
Interesting... So when trying to hit the SWEET spot. Which would be better?
A coiled up long piece of RG-400... or a 50 percent shorter piece of RG-174?:rolleyes:
 
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As pointed out earlier by those smarter than I, there are other alternatives but you have to deal with picking the length to obtain the 50 ohm impedance.

That's not quite true. It will be 50 ohm cable no matter how long you make it. Coax impedance is a function of the outer DIAMETER to the center conductor, and length has nothing to do with the matter.

However, the antenna they chose (and I have no idea why they chose that big klunker) has 30 decibels (dB) of gain and that just blows away the front end of the GPS when the satellites are dead overhead, making anything NOT dead overhead impossible to hear. They came up with a solution of running the gain down by loss in the cable. Why in the world they chose heavy expensive -400 is, again, a mystery.

Coming up with LOSS is trivially simple and good old RG-58 would have had a minimum of 7 feet or so, and tiny little-174 is about 5 feet minimum. Again, if anybody can teach me how to post a pdf to this forum, I've got a full page (with pictures) explaining the whole thing.

Jim
RST
 
Coming up with LOSS is trivially simple and good old RG-58 would have had a minimum of 7 feet or so, and tiny little-174 is about 5 feet minimum. Again, if anybody can teach me how to post a pdf to this forum, I've got a full page (with pictures) explaining the whole thing.

Jim
RST

Jim, here is the link with instructions for inserting images:

http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/ImagesInForums/images.htm

I'm interested in your data because a Stratus install is in my near future.
 
I am about to be doing this upgrade. Regarding the cable length...not having read the manual yet, is it really a minimum length and not a maximim? If I have a shorter run of RG 400 it won't meet the spec and/or risk not working? It needs the resistance?

OK, here is the link to the full installation manual and a whole bunch of other stuff that I send out with my Appareo ESG units. You all might just as well have access to what I have as it doesn't cost me a penny for you to download all my information.

Yeah, I sell the thing and I'm NOT trying to scam you into reading my ads. I'll tell you right up front that it is halfway down on the web page and is highlighted in blue as a download link. Bypass all the hucksterism if you wish, but please use the documents with my blessing.

Use this URL: http://www.rstengineering.com/rst/products/adsb/password.htm

Use this password: eaa73aopa88 (Do NOT cut and paste, it doesn't work).

Jim
RST
 
Jim, here is the link with instructions for inserting images:

http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/ImagesInForums/images.htm

I'm interested in your data because a Stratus install is in my near future.

It is the last page of the download I referenced above.

I just don't have the time to be uploading images to a third party website, remembering the URL, and then pasting it in. I'll post anything I think would help you all to my own website and be assured that I have control over it.

THanks for the help...


Jim
RST
 
Interesting... So when trying to hit the SWEET spot. Which would be better?
A coiled up long piece of RG-400... or a 75 percent shorter piece of RG-58?:rolleyes:

That all depends on whether you want half a pound of useful load taken away, a quarter of a pound, or a couple of ounces. Your call.


Jim
 
If you're trying to save weight a better option would be a 3db attenuator and short piece of RG400.
PE7003-1.jpg
 
If you're trying to save weight a better option would be a 3db attenuator and short piece of RG400.

Do you really think that is going to beat 0.7 ounces and a nickel a foot for 5 feet?

Just FYI, the "bel" part of decibel comes from Alexander G. Bell, and we normally capitalize the abbrvtn as dB.

Jim
RST
 
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ESGi GPS Antenna coax.

Do you really think that is going to beat 0.7 ounces and a nickel a foot for 5 feet?

Just FYI, the "bel" part of decibel comes from Alexander G. Bell, and we normally capitalize the abbrvtn as dB.

Jim
RST

I used a 4' length of RG400 2 TNC connectors (1 90 degree). Mounted antenna sidewase on glare shield; (won't fit mounted fore & aft). Flown and passed FAA compliance 100%. Two very long cross countries & works perfectly.
 
If you're trying to save weight a better option would be a 3db attenuator and short piece of RG400.

Actually the point I was bringing up, although some may be extremely weight conscious,:rolleyes: is the idea of coiling up loops of wire in an avionics bay. May be old school but just the notion makes the fur on the back of my neck raise...:eek:

Seems like an invitation for noise infiltration to me...

But I like your possible solution to be able to shorten and make a neat installation and possibly lessen the chance of noise interference. Well done.



Best regards all,
 
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I may be getting my breast in the blender again, but I want somebody to test my GPS antenna with their installed Stratus ESG and give me a report. It mounts in a single 7/8" (22mm) hole and comes with 15 feet of RG174 without a connector installed. It is about 2.5" in diameter and about 0.5" above the skin or ground plane.

I will provide you (free) one antenna, two TNC male connectors, and one illustrated installation manual. In return I'd like a report as to whether it performed adequately with the FULL length of coax and also with as short a coax as you can reasonably get. Results to be reported here within, say, two weeks of receipt. You get to keep everything I send you.

FIrst come, only serve.

Jim
RST
 
I may be getting my breast in the blender again, but I want somebody to test my GPS antenna with their installed Stratus ESG and give me a report. It mounts in a single 7/8" (22mm) hole and comes with 15 feet of RG174 without a connector installed. It is about 2.5" in diameter and about 0.5" above the skin or ground plane.

I will provide you (free) one antenna, two TNC male connectors, and one illustrated installation manual. In return I'd like a report as to whether it performed adequately with the FULL length of coax and also with as short a coax as you can reasonably get. Results to be reported here within, say, two weeks of receipt. You get to keep everything I send you.

FIrst come, only serve.

Jim
RST

These minimum and maximum cable attenuation specs were made so the unit(s) meet the worst case TSO performance specs. The fact that more or less coax might work 99% of the time doesn't make it legal...not even for EAB aircraft.
 
These minimum and maximum cable attenuation specs were made so the unit(s) meet the worst case TSO performance specs. The fact that more or less coax might work 99% of the time doesn't make it legal...not even for EAB aircraft.

Bob, I'll be happy to answer that, but in order to do so I need to know your level of RF and microwave theory/engineering. If you are an expert, I'll give you an expert answer. If you are a competent technician, I'll give you a competent technician answer. ... and keep on going down the competency ladder ... .

I'm not trying to meet the 2-sigma reliability level (99%) or anything else.

My antenna has a different gain than the supplied Stratus antenna. I'm simply trying to bracket the acceptability limits and I'm willing to sacrifice a few $75 antennas at the problem to see what the results are. Then I'll provide what I think is a reasonable safety margin and give the results here in this forum.

Sure, I could have offered a dozen connectors, try cutting it off a foot at a time, and let's see the results. I wanted a first, wide cut, and then we can refine, OK? That's my engineering approach. If you've got a better way (a continuously tuned variable attenuator in 1 dB steps would be great if I had one) then tell me about it.

Isn't that what "experimental" is all about?

Jim
RST
 
Replacing a Garmin 327 Transponder...

How much modification to my installation bay will I have to do to get this to fit in a Garmin 327 Transponder slot?

Micahel-
 
The Stratus ESG is longer. And it might be necessary to drill more holes in the mounting rack to line up with exiting holes in the instrument panel.
 
Be careful regarding avionics stack width. Here is what I found out in search of a replacement for my GTX327: The Stratus transponder tray is 6.32" wide while Garmin avionics are 6.25". When I built my plane I sized the radio stack for a snug fit for the Garmin units. It turned out to be too narrow for the Stratus. Check the width of your stack opening before you commit so you don't get a nasty surprise when you try to install the Stratus.

Martin Sutter
Building and flying RV's since 1988
EAA Technical Councelor
Eagles Nest Mentor
 
Stratus Full Update from RST

1. OK, we've recently cut ourselves a heck of a deal with the ESG box and I truly believe that we have the lowest price in the country (including shipping/handling). If anybody has a lower price for the ESG itself please let me know. Here is the link to the web page: http://www.rstengineering.com/rst/products/adsb/adsb-eaa.htm

2. I finally found a good way to post a link for you all to download the COMPLETE Appareo installation manual, detailed FAA paperwork, and the real skinny on how to do the antenna coax. Here you go: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_duc_27b4XMUU1zcWlBcGdZU0E

3. If all you want is the antenna coax information page, here you go: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_duc_27b4XMU0NkLUNseDNuMXM

4. I still have a few of these small GPS antennas in stock. They mount in a 7/8" hole and do NOT need any "magic length" of coax cable. They go for about $70 each. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_duc_27b4XMQkJUazFRWV8xaXM

5. Just for those of you who want a face to go with the rest of my ramblings, this is what Cyndi and I looked like in 1959 and what we look like today. This is the sum total of RST Engineering staff. She's the brains, I'm the pack mule. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_duc_27b4XMekV4bndCLUdnTzA

If anybody needs any other data or documentation, I'll try and dig it out for you. Thanks for putting up with me.

Jim
RST Engineering
 
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Just an FYI-
I Tried your link and password- kept getting password incorrect. I did not copy and paste I entered it.

Can you PM me the stratus esg price pls. Thanks.
 
Just an FYI-
I Tried your link and password- kept getting password incorrect. I did not copy and paste I entered it.

Can you PM me the stratus esg price pls. Thanks.

I just tried it and it worked just fine. However, a quick email to [email protected] will get you a real quick response. I'd do the PM thing but it doesn't like images.

Thanks,

Jim
 
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