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  #11  
Old 04-29-2013, 06:34 AM
detlef lili detlef lili is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 163
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Yes Dave, I agree with you, the best diesel engine is a 2 stroke one.

But what do we have in the 150 to 180HP range?

Delta Hawk expected to sell their engine for an comparable price in 2005.

Now they offer a FWF kit for $ 70.000

It makes no sense to me. We are looking for a way to fly affordable.

On the Wilksch website is no movement since 2010.

I still believe in the future of the diesel engine.

Waiting for news.

Detlef
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2014, 12:20 PM
jeffwhip jeffwhip is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 117
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Does anyone have an update on this? Was there anything at Oshkosh?
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2014, 12:23 PM
kgood kgood is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boulder City, NV
Posts: 153
Default Diesel update

Here's what I saw at Oshkosh:
Continental introduced their CD300, which is based on a Mercedes 3.0L 300 hp, but heavy. still needs development. Is flying in a Cirrus SR22 (I saw it in Germany in Feb.) They also displayed their CD230 (formerly the TD300), which is the flat 4 230 hp engine being developed from technology purchased from SMA.

Engineered Propulsion Systems (EPS) had their 4.4L flat 8 350 hp engine there, and there's one being tested in a Cirrus SR22. It flew recently in Mojave with Dick Rutan at the controls.

SMA had their new 6 Cyl 460 (350-420 hp) in their booth. It is being tested now.

Deltahawk had an SR20 there with their updated engine, flown up from Florida. Looks good, but still no definative delivery dates for production engines.

Cessna had the SMA-powered 182 JT-A there, and also unvailed the diesel 172 JT-A, powered by Continental CD155 diesel (formerly Thielert).

Piper is offering a diesel option for the Archer, a Continental CD155.

Redbird had the Redhawk Diesel 172 in their booth, also powered by a CD155.

American Champion announced that the Denali Scout will be available with an Austro 180 hp diesel.

Glasair Aviation had two diesel Sportsman aircraft there, both with Continental CD155, both flown in, one (mine) from NV, and one from the factory in Arlington. I can tell you that the diesel is very economical and pleasant to fly.

Not at Oshkosh, but Wilksch Airmotive is finishing testing on their 170 hp 4 cyl engine, which may soon be available, along with their GII 125 hp 3 cyl. Their website www.wilksch.net has been updated. it's worth a look. I've been flying my RV9 with G1 120 hp 3 cyl for almost 6 years, 500 hours with excellent results. IMO, this is the best hope for homebuilders who would like a diesel, as it is the simplest, lightest, and probably the lowest cost aerodiesel out there (hard knowing the cost, since they aren't offering it yet, but my 3 cyl was very reasonable, in line with equivalent Lyc).

That's all I can think of.

Kurt Goodfellow
RV9-WAM 120 diesel, flying since 2008, 495 hours.
Glasair Sportsman - Continental CD155 diesel, flying since June, 50 hours.
RV10 -Airframe complete, waiting for suitable diesel!
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2014, 06:30 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is online now
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
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Hi Kurt,

Thanks for the detailed update.

The Wilksch 4cyl really does look good on paper. I couldn't determine whether that ~350 lbs weight includes the radiator itself (it does seem to mention the oil cooler & intercooler).

I also didn't see the max altitude to maintain the 135HP rating. If it can maintain it up to 12-13k feet, it will eat a 180 HP Lyc alive.

Any idea on the answers to those questions? Has your 3cyl installation met their claimed numbers, based on your -9's actual performance?

Thanks,

Charlie
Renesis rotary RV-7 in progress
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2014, 07:10 PM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
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For the foreseeable future, and in light of a prop failure thread, the answer for any RV builder is not a recipe diesel, and my definition of foreseeable is 10+ years.

The only Diesel that even remotely interested me at OSH was the SMA C182 and even that I would fly like a two stroke ultralight……over flat open fields and long runways.

Harsh words I know, but the CMI in the C172 really failed to impress me.

YMMV
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  #16  
Old 08-17-2014, 11:19 AM
SvingenB SvingenB is offline
 
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The WAM looks really interesting.
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  #17  
Old 08-17-2014, 07:57 PM
kgood kgood is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boulder City, NV
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7charlie View Post
Hi Kurt,

Thanks for the detailed update.

The Wilksch 4cyl really does look good on paper. I couldn't determine whether that ~350 lbs weight includes the radiator itself (it does seem to mention the oil cooler & intercooler).

I also didn't see the max altitude to maintain the 135HP rating. If it can maintain it up to 12-13k feet, it will eat a 180 HP Lyc alive.

Any idea on the answers to those questions? Has your 3cyl installation met their claimed numbers, based on your -9's actual performance?

Thanks,

Charlie
Renesis rotary RV-7 in progress
The 350 lb weight includes everything: coolers, oil, coolant, exhaust, MT 3 blade propeller, governor. I'm not sure how that compares with a complete FWF O-360, but I imagine its favorable. I know that my 120 hp Wilksch weighs less that a Lycoming-powered RV9, by at least 50 lb.

With regard to altitude performance, I'm not sure how high the new engines will maintain 100% power. My Sportsman with CMI CD155 produces 100% power up to 9500', and it starts to slowly drop off. It starts to out-perform a 180 hp Lyc at around 3000'. I don't see why the Wilksch wouldn't do as well, if not better.

My RV9 / WAM 120 performs pretty much the same as a Lyc O-235 would. this is because I have more cooling drag than I should. I've got plans to make some changes to provide better performance, but I'm holding off until I can get a Gen II engine, or perhaps even one of the 4 cyl engines. At that point, I'll redesign the cooling system using experience from my original installation and what I've learned from cooling the Sportsman / CD155. It uses a basically stock Sportsman cowling with no need for larger cooling inlets.

Kurt
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  #18  
Old 08-17-2014, 08:15 PM
kgood kgood is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boulder City, NV
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10inOz View Post
For the foreseeable future, and in light of a prop failure thread, the answer for any RV builder is not a recipe diesel, and my definition of foreseeable is 10+ years.

The only Diesel that even remotely interested me at OSH was the SMA C182 and even that I would fly like a two stroke ultralight……over flat open fields and long runways.

Harsh words I know, but the CMI in the C172 really failed to impress me.

YMMV
Have you flown a CD155-powered C172? I haven't, but I have a friend who did and he says it's quite impressive.

I have, however, now flown my CD155-powered Sportsman over 50 hours, and I'm very impressed. I've never in my life flown anything so smooth. No vibration whatsoever. I never thought I would say this, but the FADEC is pretty sweet. Just set the power where you want it, and forget it. No mixture, prop, carb heat, priming, hot-start, cold-start, LOP, ROP, to worry about. Just start it like your car and drive it at the power setting you want. Dual FADECS, sensors, and battery back-up for redundancy. It really is well thought-out and well proven.

But you're right, most RV builders are better off sticking with traditional engines. It'll take awhile for diesels to become more understood and accepted. I just want the community to know that diesel is a very viable alternative, not just pie-in-the-sky. After all, this IS the Alternative Engine forum...

Kurt
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