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Rivet guns 2X, 3X
- Thread starter RV-7 2004
- Start date
Lemmingman
Well Known Member
You can use the 2x, it is just going to take more banging to squish some of the long AN470AD4 rivets. I got a 3x because I can always turn it down some, but the 2x can only deliver so much power.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Radomir, who posts on this forum, built his -7A with a 2x gun but most builders do it with a 3x gun.
If I were to build again, I would buy the 2x and have both. After using both, I found that the 2x is great for skin to rib rivets but a bit under powered for riveting to more structure than that.
The 2x is light enough that it is difficult to dent your skins but when riveting to a longeron or more than two layers of aluminum, you really want the 3x.
I often suggest that people buy a manual rivet squeezer and both the 2x and 3x gun, if tool money is an issue.
If I were to build again, I would buy the 2x and have both. After using both, I found that the 2x is great for skin to rib rivets but a bit under powered for riveting to more structure than that.
The 2x is light enough that it is difficult to dent your skins but when riveting to a longeron or more than two layers of aluminum, you really want the 3x.
I often suggest that people buy a manual rivet squeezer and both the 2x and 3x gun, if tool money is an issue.
I think you do need a 3X gun for a few rivets - for example, the difficult to reach wing leading edge to spar rivets. These 1/8 rivets pass through thick structure and my experience is that a 2X gun lacks the power to set these with a reasonable number of blows or at all.
I find a 2X gun best for skin rivets, a 3X for 1/8 rivets in structure. So, my recommendation would be to get both. You will find they have a very different feel - the 2X rapid light beats, the 3X slower heavier beats. Both have their uses and they are not always interchangeable.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing kit
I find a 2X gun best for skin rivets, a 3X for 1/8 rivets in structure. So, my recommendation would be to get both. You will find they have a very different feel - the 2X rapid light beats, the 3X slower heavier beats. Both have their uses and they are not always interchangeable.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing kit
rv6rick
Well Known Member
I have 5 rivets guns, 4 are 2X and 1 is 3X. I've built 'many' RV's & Rockets and have never used the 3X gun for building. The only time I use the 3X is to show other builders how it hits and why it isn't needed.
Just my thoughts and experience, yours may differ
.
Just my thoughts and experience, yours may differ
.2X vs 3X
I think it depends on the manufacturer of the guns. I started with a 2X (Atlas Copco) and still find it a good gun for the -3 skin rivets. I started having problems with some of the long -4 rivets and tried out a 3X gun. Very much better. If I were to only have one it would be the 3X.
These are the specs for mine:
------Blows (Hz)----Energy/blow (J)
2X-----66-------------2.0
3X-----36-------------6.0
So you can see the 2X gun has about twice the frequency and a third of the energy/blow. Running the 2X gun at max pressure makes it very hard to control as it is a light gun.
I think it depends on the manufacturer of the guns. I started with a 2X (Atlas Copco) and still find it a good gun for the -3 skin rivets. I started having problems with some of the long -4 rivets and tried out a 3X gun. Very much better. If I were to only have one it would be the 3X.
These are the specs for mine:
------Blows (Hz)----Energy/blow (J)
2X-----66-------------2.0
3X-----36-------------6.0
So you can see the 2X gun has about twice the frequency and a third of the energy/blow. Running the 2X gun at max pressure makes it very hard to control as it is a light gun.
Atlas Copco (2X) RRH 04P-12 rivet gun, no trigger.
Rick,
I have to ask since you have done so much with these guns and the RV line. What is your favorite rivet gun for the RV?s? From what you said in your reply it would have to be a 2X, but which brand and model, trigger or push to start? I ask, because I?m just getting started with a RV7 tail kit and came across an excellent deal a new, unused, Atlas Copco (2X) it does not have a trigger, but is push to start. Will it serve me well on the RV7, or will I need to find a 2X with trigger in your view? Thanks to all for the responses and input?
Rick,
I have to ask since you have done so much with these guns and the RV line. What is your favorite rivet gun for the RV?s? From what you said in your reply it would have to be a 2X, but which brand and model, trigger or push to start? I ask, because I?m just getting started with a RV7 tail kit and came across an excellent deal a new, unused, Atlas Copco (2X) it does not have a trigger, but is push to start. Will it serve me well on the RV7, or will I need to find a 2X with trigger in your view? Thanks to all for the responses and input?
2X Gun
If it is a really good deal on the Atlas Copco push to start gun, it's probably worth buying. Check with Atlas Copco, if you don't like it, they may be able to rebuild it as a trigger model.
On mine, the trigger can be rotated to control the air pressure, so you don't need an external regulator. I find this very handy. So on the push to start, you should check how they have arranged the pressure control. You want a "teasing" trigger, whether it is a button trigger or a push to start trigger.
If it is a really good deal on the Atlas Copco push to start gun, it's probably worth buying. Check with Atlas Copco, if you don't like it, they may be able to rebuild it as a trigger model.
On mine, the trigger can be rotated to control the air pressure, so you don't need an external regulator. I find this very handy. So on the push to start, you should check how they have arranged the pressure control. You want a "teasing" trigger, whether it is a button trigger or a push to start trigger.
Red Box 737 Rivet Gun
Does anyone have experience with the Red Box 737 gun from Aircraft Spruce? It comes with a couple bucking bars. Im probably going with the 3x after reading the posts here, but still not sure. Any other recommendations on brand of gun? With the amount of rivets, I want to get one that will be easy to use and do the best job. A few $$ either way is not as important as how well it works. Thanks.
Does anyone have experience with the Red Box 737 gun from Aircraft Spruce? It comes with a couple bucking bars. Im probably going with the 3x after reading the posts here, but still not sure. Any other recommendations on brand of gun? With the amount of rivets, I want to get one that will be easy to use and do the best job. A few $$ either way is not as important as how well it works. Thanks.
rv6rick
Well Known Member
Hello RV-7 2004,
I'm a tad confused, in your first post you said you 'have' a 2x but asked if you would 'need' a 3x. In another post you said you came across a good deal on a 2x with a push start and wanted to know if you should buy it?
You've already received a couple good replies but since you asked (and it's great therapy for my fingers) I'll ad my 2 cents.
Any-hoo - for me it's like this: I have the various 2X & 3X guns at my shop. I ALWAYS use my 2X. I simply don't like the 'break' between hits on the 3X, it's just too slow. Can I use it to build my RV....yes, but like Bill R. suggested...'when'...not 'if' you make a mistake, you'll wish you had the 2X. I've probably used just about every brand of rivet gun under the sun because when customers come to my shop they always bring their 'new', latest, greatest, cheapest, or most expensive rivet gun. In most cases it's a 3X and they bought it because they read on the forum that "it was the gun they 'had' to have". My favorite is the Avery 2X I bought to build my first RV. That same 2X rivet gun has built no less than 11 RV's and Rockets and I can count the times that I've oiled it on one hand....and it hits like the day I bought it.
Yes the 3X can hit harder but again, it hits slower. Even when you dial it down for a shorty -3 it still doesn't have the nice smooth 'feel' of the 2X. If I had a 2X and a 3X and my 2X broke I'd go buy another 2X before I drove one more rivet, especially on skins. Bottom line is when the guys leave my shop they always wish that they had spent their money on the 2X after they learn how to use both guns.
I start new guys on a block of wood. Here they learn how to 'feel' and 'listen' to the gun and how to feather and squeeze the trigger. I use the little $15 dollar regulator from Avery on the gun. They learn that the rule of thumb is 3 clicks in and 3 clicks out between a -3 and a -4 rivet with the 2X gun. Once they can set the gun up for any rivet just by 'feeling' and 'listening' on a block of wood we move to our practice sheets of assorted -3 and -4 flush and universal rivets. They'll drive about a hundred rivets with various rivets sets/bucking bars while going back and forth between the 2X and 3X guns. By the time they leave they can rivet with their finger on the trigger and can also rivet 'inside/out' using their thumb on the trigger....very important. They also have to be able to switch left and right hands riveting and bucking solo. I've yet to have a customer choose the 3X over the 2X for setting these rivets once I showed them how it's done. Of course now that I've said that the next 5 guys will all want the 3X.
A tad off the topic but I ALWAYS rivet in order of preference:
First preference -back rivet
Second preference -hand or pnuematic squeezer
Third preverence -rivet gun
Full circle, if you have the 2X on hand I suggest that you use it. If you feel that it's not driving the rivets for you and you 'want' a 3X then by all means go out and make the purchase.
The above is simply 'my experience' and others will most certainly disagree. Not a problem....what is important is that you practice, practice, practice and learn how set nice, clean, show quality rivets with the rivet gun that works best for you.
Hope this helps!
For the archives.
I'm a tad confused, in your first post you said you 'have' a 2x but asked if you would 'need' a 3x. In another post you said you came across a good deal on a 2x with a push start and wanted to know if you should buy it?
You've already received a couple good replies but since you asked (and it's great therapy for my fingers) I'll ad my 2 cents.
Any-hoo - for me it's like this: I have the various 2X & 3X guns at my shop. I ALWAYS use my 2X. I simply don't like the 'break' between hits on the 3X, it's just too slow. Can I use it to build my RV....yes, but like Bill R. suggested...'when'...not 'if' you make a mistake, you'll wish you had the 2X. I've probably used just about every brand of rivet gun under the sun because when customers come to my shop they always bring their 'new', latest, greatest, cheapest, or most expensive rivet gun. In most cases it's a 3X and they bought it because they read on the forum that "it was the gun they 'had' to have". My favorite is the Avery 2X I bought to build my first RV. That same 2X rivet gun has built no less than 11 RV's and Rockets and I can count the times that I've oiled it on one hand
....and it hits like the day I bought it. Yes the 3X can hit harder but again, it hits slower. Even when you dial it down for a shorty -3 it still doesn't have the nice smooth 'feel' of the 2X. If I had a 2X and a 3X and my 2X broke I'd go buy another 2X before I drove one more rivet, especially on skins. Bottom line is when the guys leave my shop they always wish that they had spent their money on the 2X after they learn how to use both guns.
I start new guys on a block of wood. Here they learn how to 'feel' and 'listen' to the gun and how to feather and squeeze the trigger. I use the little $15 dollar regulator from Avery on the gun. They learn that the rule of thumb is 3 clicks in and 3 clicks out between a -3 and a -4 rivet with the 2X gun. Once they can set the gun up for any rivet just by 'feeling' and 'listening' on a block of wood we move to our practice sheets of assorted -3 and -4 flush and universal rivets. They'll drive about a hundred rivets with various rivets sets/bucking bars while going back and forth between the 2X and 3X guns. By the time they leave they can rivet with their finger on the trigger and can also rivet 'inside/out' using their thumb on the trigger....very important. They also have to be able to switch left and right hands riveting and bucking solo. I've yet to have a customer choose the 3X over the 2X for setting these rivets once I showed them how it's done. Of course now that I've said that the next 5 guys will all want the 3X
.A tad off the topic but I ALWAYS rivet in order of preference:
First preference -back rivet
Second preference -hand or pnuematic squeezer
Third preverence -rivet gun
Full circle, if you have the 2X on hand I suggest that you use it. If you feel that it's not driving the rivets for you and you 'want' a 3X then by all means go out and make the purchase.
The above is simply 'my experience' and others will most certainly disagree. Not a problem....what is important is that you practice, practice, practice and learn how set nice, clean, show quality rivets with the rivet gun that works best for you.
Hope this helps!
For the archives.
