Electronic Ignition Comparison Matrix

rv6ejguy said:

Lightspeed and Pmag both offer optional and expensive equipment to observe values and modify existing curves but they are not fully user programmable for custom curves. Yes, you can drop $600-$900 more for to get some of this capability with a Pmag.

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Ross,
If we are to keep this objective, then we ought to use the same format for all brand, that is all I am saying. I would have found it objective if you had put extra cost, much as it has been done for SDS for Backup power.

Then the user can investigate to see how much and to what extend those capabilities exist, whether is programmability or the back up power.

To be fair though, there is some confusion about "programability". Some believe that the curve shift offered on the Pmag qualifies, but it's not the same as the SDS stuff. It's a grey area we need to work through as new products emerge.

N941WR said:

I'm not sure how they measure MAP but I do know if you disconnect the line and leave it open to ambient pressure, it will not advance.

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That only addresses if the MAP sensor gets disconnected from it's source. That doesn't address what Michael was talking about, which is a failure of the MAP sensor and the eroneous data it will provide to the CPU.

Larry

Bavafa said:

Ross,
If we are to keep this objective, then we ought to use the same format for all brand, that is all I am saying. I would have found it objective if you had put extra cost, much as it has been done for SDS for Backup power.

Then the user can investigate to see how much and to what extend those capabilities exist, whether is programmability or the back up power.

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I agree with you except that none of the other EIs are truly programmable as SDS, as Mike says below, so you'd need to qualify that in your chart.

My aim was a simple chart showing the basics of standard capabilities, costs and features, which can't go into great detail. I threw the floor open for someone to make a more detailed chart as was done before by the OP of this thread. The invitation is open.

For detailed comparisons, I'd suggest folks hit each EI manufacturer's website and see which features and price best suits their mission.

rv6ejguy said:

Lightspeed and Pmag both offer optional and expensive equipment to observe values and modify existing curves but they are not fully user programmable for custom curves. Yes, you can drop $600-$900 more for to get some of this capability with a Pmag.

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As for Lightspeed, you can connect a simple 10k potentiometer to the box to be able to shift the existing timing curve up or down or both (forgot which), and you can connect an output of the box to your EFIS to display the actual timing. No need to buy the (expensive) standalone indicator from Lightspeed.

While we're being fair, let's add Paisley's System 32, since he has now posted an installation manual.

The EDIS-based system too.

Is the System 32 actually flying, or is it still vaporware?

I just listed the popular, commercially available systems. There are others. Home made stuff is usually one-off unless Dan is going to offer EDIS kits? I've built fixed timing stuff 20 years ago with a couple Hall Effects and an HEI module for $50 but I won't be producing them for sale.

Anyone who wants to compile a bigger list and all features- go for it. I just responded to George's post for an update.

Efii

The system32 is NOT vaporware. I have the complete system, in hand. First star very soon...

rv6ejguy said:

I just listed the popular, commercially available systems. There are others. Home made stuff is usually one-off unless Dan is going to offer EDIS kits? I've built fixed timing stuff 20 years ago with a couple Hall Effects and an HEI module for $50 but I won't be producing them for sale.

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Assuming apple-to-apples crank triggering, the only "homemade" components (cue the dire music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B38ohaelNBQ ) for an EDIS based system are a toothed wheel and a pickup bracket.

EDIS box, Ford OEM - I've bought NOS units for $100. Used EDIS units are found everywhere, worldwide. It's a sealed brick.

Megajolt/E MK2 controller - AutoSport Labs - $199

Pickup, coil, plug wires, boots, plugs - generic auto parts

Plug bushings - multiple sources (including SDS)

It's an electronic ignition, not a nuclear weapon.

DanH said:

Assuming apple-to-apples crank triggering, the only "homemade" components (cue the dire music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B38ohaelNBQ ) for an EDIS based system are a toothed wheel and a pickup bracket.

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These parts are hard to make for folks without machining capability. If you want to spin your own, you already have a thread for that. You're one of the few who made you own EI. Most folks want to buy something all done and ready to install.

rv6ejguy said:

These parts are hard to make for folks without machining capability.

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Hard, like emailing one of these files to a waterjet shop?

https://www.danhorton.net/Misc/

Trigger Wheel Large.dwg
Trigger Wheel Small.dwg

You're one of the few who made you own EI.

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That was my point. I didn't make my own EI. I just made some hardware. The rest is wiring components together, most of which are common as dirt.

Most folks want to buy something all done and ready to install.

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Then they will select something else from the matrix. Review the EDIS thread and you'll note I suggested your CPI.

We build airplanes. The need to actually fabricate something is not an excuse for eliminating a choice.

One possible comparison column to add might be “upgradable firmware/software?” or “Software-free?”

It’s a brave new world out there, and the knee-jerk expectation might be that programmability/upgradability would be an obvious positive. Even speaking as a very broadly tech-positive person, I’m conflicted when it comes to this subject. I personally draw the line on software where basic operation of the engine is concerned.

Although I do respect the advantages of programmability and the objectives of products offered by SDS and others, I elected to install LightSpeed Plasma III’s for their software-free, hardwired, discreet-logic circuitry. I’m forgoing the advantages of most available EFI systems for the same reason.

This is an entirely personal choice, perhaps over-cautious in today’s world, but I’ve got to go with my own intuition. My concern is two-fold. First, potential software or firmware glitches can simultaneously disable both elements in a redundant system. Second, such glitches can be insidiously difficult to trigger via standard debugging procedures, thus making all users in a small world like ours default guinea-pigs.

I’m not trying to talk anyone else out of installing software-based essential systems here, but it would be good info to have in the chart for those who share my concern.

I WOULD suggest avoiding simultaneous firmware/software alterations in both elements of redundant systems whenever possible and for as long as possible, though!- Otis

Updated ignition chart

Hi Dan,
Here is an updated chart.
You can add your info,
Robert

Bob, as I read the chart you just put up, it shows the Bus Manager as the backup power------is it included as a standard part in the EFII dual ign system??

If it is not included in the standard system, should it not be labeled as "extra cost" like the other systems?

From what I could determine from your website, it looks like the bus mgr is an extra cost. Like $575 extra.

Bus Manager

Correct Mike,
But the Bus Manager supplies the power distribution with main bus and essential bus for the whole plane. It's generally not supporting just the ignition or EFII system. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison to the other ignition backup solutions.

Robert

rcpaisley said:

Correct Mike,

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Thought so.

rcpaisley said:

It's generally not supporting just the ignition or EFII system. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison to the other ignition backup solutions.

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Agreed, not apples at all.

But-------isnt the whole purpose of a chart like the one being floated in this thread to show an "Apples to Apples" comparison??? So buyers can make an informed decision?

Your unit is an extra cost item, and should have been listed as such, IMHO. If you wanted to add an additional line for features ------- that would have been a more appropriate way to do things. Again, just IMHO.

And, just to keep things straight up-------I believe the CPI2 has the smarts built in to manage a backup battery, the builder just needs to supply a battery. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1361769&postcount=14

but...

"...Your unit is an extra cost item,..."

An item that is NOT required for the system (EFII) to be functional...

DanH said:

Hard, like emailing one of these files to a waterjet shop?

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Yup, and how many folks are doing this? Bet you can count all of them on this forum on one hand.

Like I said, people can build something even cheaper than this if they know something about electronics, not the point of this thread IMO.

rcpaisley said:

Hi Dan,
Here is an updated chart.
You can add your info,
Robert

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The P-mags are user configurable, with either our EICommander or the EICAD program. Also, the timing can be set for LOP operations, not that they need it, as this image points out.