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  #1  
Old 11-12-2018, 03:10 PM
iamtheari iamtheari is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: ND
Posts: 197
Default Flap actuator minimum and maximum extension

So, I did a smart thing and ordered the PH Aviation flap motor with built-in position sensor. But then I did a dumb thing and sent my flap motor back to Van's without first checking the minimum and maximum extension of it to be able to compensate for the differences in the replacement part.

The PH Aviation instructions say "the PHA actuator is not a drop-in replacement for the stock RV actuator. it is actually about 1.5" longer and a little taller." They go on to show a bracket that they built to mount it in an RV-10, which is apparently a very different mounting than in the RV-14.

Does anyone have measurements or tips to help get the PH Aviation unit working properly in an RV-14? I don't want to put it in and find out many moons from now when I attach the wings that I am unable to fully retract or extend my flaps or that I have an over-center condition or other problem. Even just knowing the minimum and maximum angles that the CS-00010 flap torque arms should have relative to the fuselage would be really helpful.
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:13 PM
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Pat Hatch Pat Hatch is offline
 
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Location: Vero Beach, FL
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Default PH Aviation Flap Actuator in an RV-14

We haven't had the opportunity to actually mount one of our actuators in an RV-14 yet, but we have looked at the drawings and it looks like the solution will involve moving the flap motor attach point about 1.5" higher up on the center post between the seats. This will probably require a redesign of the brackets or a modification of the kit brackets to shorten them the required distance. Also it looks like the distance between the brackets would need to be adjusted to the width of the new flap actuator. I think we would try to eliminate the factory brackets and redesign a couple of aluminum angles with enough distance between them to bracket the new actuator and move the attach point about 1 1/2 inches higher on the seat post.

The stroke of both flap motors is identical at 5", so the only issue is to position the attach point so that the rod end bearing ends up in approximately the same place as in the kit motor installation.

Here are a couple of photos showing the factory attach bracket.





I hope you will post your solution here later on for other folks to see. Thanks!
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RV-4 (Gone to RV heaven)
RV-6 (N44PH - Flying)
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  #3  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:49 PM
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Pat Hatch Pat Hatch is offline
 
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Default Hole-to-hole distance of the Vans RV-14 Actuator

We happen to have a stock RV-10/RV-14 flap motor that we use for testing. The hole-to-hole distance of the fully retracted flap motor is 10 1/4". That should help you calculate the position of the flap actuator arm (flap crank in the drawing above) fully retracted (flaps full down). Of course you should have some adjustment leeway in the flap linkage as well.
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RV-4 (Gone to RV heaven)
RV-6 (N44PH - Flying)
RV-7 (Sold)
RV-8 (Helped build Bob Lund's airplane)
www.phaviation.com Trim Relay Boards/Flap Actuators
www.pathatch.com/blog (Photography)
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Last edited by Pat Hatch : 11-12-2018 at 07:52 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:38 AM
iamtheari iamtheari is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: ND
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Default

Thanks for your replies. I'll document what I end up doing. The new flap actuator is at the post office so I haven't had a chance to look at it in context yet. The RV-14 flap motor brackets have lightening holes that eat up nearly the entire web, one of which is almost perfectly centered on the 1.5" mark from the stock flap motor attach point. So, if I use the stock brackets, I will have to add material. I hesitate to throw the stock brackets out, because they are perfectly engineered to fit and rivet on both fore and aft flanges, a level of structural integrity which I probably can't duplicate. I'll have to see if there is room to bolt a bracket onto the stock brackets to keep them in the loop.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:23 PM
iamtheari iamtheari is offline
 
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Location: ND
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Update: I clecoed the flap motor channel and brackets into place in the fuselage and measured. The gap between the brackets is 0.623" while the width of the end of the PH flap motor is 0.783". So the stock brackets definitely won't fit the PH flap motor, regardless of length. It looks like I will have to engineer and fabricate a mount for the PH flap motor from scratch. Now I won't feel so bad calling my plane an "experimental," since there are actual experiments involved.
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:01 AM
DaveO DaveO is offline
 
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Location: Greenfield, IN
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A thought I had, can you narrow the end of the PH Flap Motor to match the width of the original Flap Motor bracket?

I have not seen the PH motor to make an evaluation.
Thanks
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:01 AM
mountainride mountainride is offline
 
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Location: Golden, Colorado
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Following this install closely. Please be sure to share your solution. My stock flap actuator was b/o and I am thinking about the PHaviation actuator. If there isn't a clean install solution I think I will stay stock and avoid adding 1lb. I do like the simplicity of automatic stops and built in flap pos. It would be nice if PH would form and include the alum mounting brackets.

-Jason
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2018, 10:00 AM
iamtheari iamtheari is offline
 
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Location: ND
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The PH actuator is pretty beefy. I like it and I really like that it has a built-in position sensor. I hope I can make it work. I am motivated by the ego factor of having already sent the stock one AND the flap position kit back to Van's last week and not wanting to order them a second time. But I am nervous as I do not like cutting nice things and I do not know if I am up to the task of building new brackets that will have the strength of the originals.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2018, 10:32 PM
iamtheari iamtheari is offline
 
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I've been pondering the possibilities still. I took a couple pictures tonight and that has helped me brainstorm a bit. I'm posting my thoughts here in the hope I'll get some constructive criticism.

If you look at the top view of the PH actuator up against the stock bracket, you can see that the outside edges of the stock bracket are almost perfectly lined up with the actuator. If you look at the side view, it is about 1-1/2" from the stock mounting hole to the center of the lower (right in the photo) lightening hole. That is the difference in length between the PH actuator and the stock one.

Here's my current plan A:

1. Cut the stock brackets at the red line. This will leave both front-side (top left in the picture) rivets and two of the four back-side (bottom row in the picture) rivets intact. I will lose the two lower back-side rivets.

2. Cut some aluminum, probably from a piece of angle, roughly in the shape of the blue outline. One piece on each side.

3. Rivet the new pieces on the outside of the stock brackets, using the rivet locations shown in green. I will probably put thin shim pieces between the stock brackets and the new brackets in order to ensure there is sufficient room for the flap actuator, which is just a hair (0.021") wider than the outside edges of the stock brackets.

4. Mount the PH flap actuator at the position marked in yellow.




Last edited by iamtheari : 11-28-2018 at 11:08 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:12 AM
DaveO DaveO is offline
 
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Location: Greenfield, IN
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My two cents worth:

I think you need to expend the angle you use as indicated in Blue all the way upward. Thereby covering the two open holes. Riveting 3 places in total.

I hope I am clear in my thoughts.
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