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  #1  
Old 10-01-2018, 02:21 PM
Bill Boyd's Avatar
Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Landing field "12VA"
Posts: 1,176
Default windscreen base fairing layup

I've been studying the plans, and watching the video for the -14 canopy fairing on YouTube.

Is there a good reason for not using dry micro as a substrate or as a filler sandwich for maybe three glass plies vs the ten plies called out in the plans?

Same question for high density expanding foam, allowed to fully expand first...

I can't see the mechanical or aesthetic need for a heavy chunk of glass and resin 10 plies thick up there. What am I missing?
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Hop-Along Aerodrome (12VA)
RV-6A - N30YD - flying since '98
RV-10 - N130YD reserved - under construction

donating monthly to the VAF - thanks, Doug
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  #2  
Old 10-01-2018, 04:46 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
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Default There is another way...

I used this all aluminum fairing instead of of the glass. It turned out great and was easily completed in a few hours...

http://www.mlblueskunk.com/Fairing_Photo_s.html
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Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:14 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Default

I didn't think that thick micro was very strong. On my 6, I faired out the intersection to a nice curve with epoxy/cabosil, then maybe 4 layers of glass. Made a nice smooth curve.

That said, I would want something stronger than micro below it. Epoxy doesn't grab to alum or plexi very well, so also want my best chances. Not sure if the micro impacts adhesion.

Larry
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  #4  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:02 PM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
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Thumbs up DIY metal

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
I used this all aluminum fairing instead of of the glass. It turned out great and was easily completed in a few hours...

http://www.mlblueskunk.com/Fairing_Photo_s.html
That was a purchased one. Some DIY instructions are here from the 27 years of the RVator book.

Page 146. https://books.google.com/books?id=4d...page&q&f=false

I did this on my -6A and was pleased with the results. I did it in two halves - the first half took a couple of hours and in normal building fashion, the second half took about 45 minutes.

I intend to do the same on my -10
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EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2018, 07:42 AM
rcoleman-10 rcoleman-10 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bastrop, TX
Posts: 16
Default Windscreen layup

Has anyone experienced de-lamination across the top of the windscreen after several years? I bought my RV10 last Oct (2017) with Total time of 189hrs no issues observed at that time as part of the pre-buy inspection. Since then around Jun of this year I started to see some cracking above the pilot door right at the windscreen cabin interface. I generally know how i will need to repair it but wanted to know if anyone else has seen any de-lamination or cracking.
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2018, 08:03 AM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 1,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
I've been studying the plans, and watching the video for the -14 canopy fairing on YouTube.

Is there a good reason for not using dry micro as a substrate or as a filler sandwich for maybe three glass plies vs the ten plies called out in the plans?

Same question for high density expanding foam, allowed to fully expand first...

I can't see the mechanical or aesthetic need for a heavy chunk of glass and resin 10 plies thick up there. What am I missing?
Some thoughts:
- Never get anything like expanding foam near your airplane.
- You can use mico to make a nice “bed” for the glass. Do that first to get everything fixed. Do not have so much that you have it coming out the bottom on the inside of the plane. Recommend you add epoxy color so that you see black instead of white on the inside: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...lickkey=455661
- After the micro is set, sand to the profile you want. The micro should not extend up the glass, or more that a an inch or so on the aluminum.
- I did not like the “10 ply” thing either. I used carbon instead of glass for this as I find it much easier to work with - and it does not need the color add. I did a two bid layup about 1” wide, then a four bid layup about 2” wide over that.
- YOU MUST AGGRESSIVLY sand the windshield for good adhesion. Get the 30 grit paper out. The scratches get filled with resin so no worries about them.

For all window to fiberglass joints I filled the junction with micro, sanded smooth than overlaid two bids of regular fiberglass. If you don’t do this, the micro will crack at the glass to fiberglass joint and you get the “window frame” effect in your very expensive paint job.

Carl

Last edited by Carl Froehlich : 10-04-2018 at 09:45 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2018, 09:18 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 7,862
Default

Consider how big the windshield is.....

The attachment of the base to the fuselage should be considered somewhat structural in the context of the windshield. I.E., this is more than a simple aerodynamic fairing you will be making.

For that reason, a bunch of non-structural filler (foam, micro mixture, etc., are all non structural fillers) and just a couple of layers of glass (or carbon fiber) cloth will not meet the structural strength intend for this area.
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  #8  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:49 AM
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Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
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Location: Landing field "12VA"
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Default thanks, everyone.

I have bedded my windows in SilPruf silicone so they are free-floating inside the joggle space, no fiberglass overlap and cracking paint to worry about. I would suggest the factory consider officially endorsing this method of window installation as an alternative to the fiberglass on top of plexi method. The latter sounds like a science project on differential coefficients of expansion, and the troubles it has caused some builders are well-documented here.

Already on top of that resin tinting thing, have the black pigment in hand.

Will do the fairing as specified, then, for the reasons Scott listed.

Expanding foam of the high-density LocTite type already used in closing out my control surface ends with zero issues with creep/continued "bloom" under the fiberglass caps. Understand abundance of caution, but I certainly got away with it.
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Hop-Along Aerodrome (12VA)
RV-6A - N30YD - flying since '98
RV-10 - N130YD reserved - under construction

donating monthly to the VAF - thanks, Doug
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2018, 11:37 AM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
I have bedded my windows in SilPruf silicone so they are free-floating inside the joggle space, no fiberglass overlap and cracking paint to worry about. I would suggest the factory consider officially endorsing this method of window installation as an alternative to the fiberglass on top of plexi method. The latter sounds like a science project on differential coefficients of expansion, and the troubles it has caused some builders are well-documented here.
SNIP
We are of very different schools of thought on how to finish a window - but we all get do build as we wish.

Carl
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2018, 12:00 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
I have bedded my windows in SilPruf silicone so they are free-floating inside the joggle space, no fiberglass overlap and cracking paint to worry about.
Bill, I imagine that the silicone should be OK. However, I know that auto manufacturers have moved to urethane adhesive on the windshields, because the designers now utilize the windshield as part of the structural rigidity of the frame. I would be a little concerned that Van's did something similar. If they did, I am sure that a structural adhesive would be required over a sealant.

Larry
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