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Fire extinguisher; Yes? No? Really needed or?

RVTOY

Well Known Member
Thinking about installing fire extinguisher but have questions about spending the money and adding weight when it seems like this is just kind of the thing to do rather then fires that are inevitable somewhere along our flight hours?:eek:
 
Only need it if you need it...

Bummer if you need one to put out a brake fire and you lose the plane because you saved a couple of pounds.
 
We just recently put one in the club 172. Personally, I would much rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. We stuck ours down on the floor between the seats in the 172, but you'd have to be a bit more "creative" in an RV. Maybe on the passenger side baggage compartment?

They don't way a whole lot, but they do add cost unfortunately. I'd say go for it and be happy if its something that you never have to use :)
 
Thinking about installing fire extinguisher but have questions about spending the money and adding weight when it seems like this is just kind of the thing to do rather then fires that are inevitable somewhere along our flight hours?:eek:

A must for Phase One in my opinion. Keep it for one year or 500 hours then remove. :)
 
Is it not mandated by law in the states? In Canada its mandatory equipment. For the few pounds it saves its not worth the risk in my opinion. I'll choose a salad over a burger to shed pounds before I leave my fire extinguisher at home.
 
I don't think I would go without. As much as I like to save weight, and as cheap a guy as I am, I try to imagine whether the possible outcome would be people saying, "Well, that dumba**". And honestly if someone lost a plane - or worse yet their life - for lack of a fire extinguisher in an experimental airplane I'd probably be tempted to say that.
 
ABSOLUTELY Get one!

Even if not for yourself, there may/will come a time when you or a friends airplane is making smoke. I have had it happen twice, once in a remote backcountry airstrip and my friends carb bowl gave way on landing (was already leaking apparently). He parked next to me and I saw flames coming out of the lower cowl exhaust. 15 seconds of frenzy and my 3 pound halon saved his airplane...no doubt about it. Other time was a friend with a smoke system with a flaming dribble on shut down.

I wouldn't fly without one! Also the halon is far superior if you ever have to use it. Much less mess. When I filled the cowl of my friends RV4 up, we were able to easily clean it up and fly the airplane away after repairs. Would have been a huge mess with a normal fire extinguisher.

The best HALON extinguisher is very very cheap compared to your airplane or a friends plane or life!

Buy one, carry one, and hope you never use it!

Bill
 
Thinking about installing fire extinguisher but have questions about spending the money and adding weight when it seems like this is just kind of the thing to do rather then fires that are inevitable somewhere along our flight hours?:eek:

It's better to have it on hand in case of emergencies.
 
I don't think I would go without. As much as I like to save weight, and as cheap a guy as I am, I try to imagine whether the possible outcome would be people saying, "Well, that dumba**". And honestly if someone lost a plane - or worse yet their life - for lack of a fire extinguisher in an experimental airplane I'd probably be tempted to say that.

Well said!
 
There was a Sonex that crashed a few weeks ago not too far from me. The guy had an inflight fire. Instead of the typical "crash and burn", he burned then crashed. I'm sure he would have survived with an extinguisher.
 
Halon fire extinguisher...

Buy it, keep it handy. It has saved my butt, literally, more than once. Does not need to be huge, as Halon is very effective. Even an RV 8 has enough room for a small extinguisher.

It really is that good!
 
what about "multi-purpose dry chemical" extinguishers? They are very cheap. Any good?

In a word, NO. ABC-type extinguishers are corrosive to aluminum and avionics. BC-type is okay, but Halon is preferred.

Using an ABC type on a plane can, as I understand it, result in totalling the airframe AND ruining the avionics.
 
I fought with this issue for some time, mostly because I couldn't figure out where I wanted to mount it. It needed to be in front because of cg issues but I didn't like it between the seats or on the pump cover. I finally came up with a way to mount it under the control cable bracket clamps under the sub panel. I used the same holes and longer screws holding the clamps and a few spacers. Only drawback is I will need to loosen my shoulder straps to reach it in case of a fire. When reaching for it, the first thing I feel is the latch releasing the extinguisher from the bracket. Big plus is forward cg and you can't really see it unless you duck down and look under the panel. Ive had it there for over a year and 100 hours.

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Boy, you know, we add dozens of pounds to these things when building to guard against any possible situation. The fire extinguisher doesn't seem to me to be the line in the sand.

What's the real downside of having it? What's the downside of not having it?

BTW, it's a handy tool for smashing a canopy if you need to, also.
 
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what about "multi-purpose dry chemical" extinguishers? They are very cheap. Any good?

Not the preferred extinguisher for the reasons stated above, BUT if it's one of those or nothing definitely add one. During a fire inflight in the cabin the last thing I'm worried about is the well being of the aircraft.
 
Not the preferred extinguisher for the reasons stated above, BUT if it's one of those or nothing definitely add one. During a fire inflight in the cabin the last thing I'm worried about is the well being of the aircraft.

If you have ever discharged a dry powder extinguisher and had the wind blow the powder back at you, you would understand that breathing this powder is downright disabling. I can't see how these things would ever be acceptable in a cockpit situation. I can say that during a practice event using a dry powder extinguisher as training the wind blew the powder back at a couple of us. It was almost painful to breath for about 5 minutes after getting some of this into our lungs.

Halon has its disadvantages also- it produced a lethal gas when heated in a fully involved fire situation, but is far less of a problem to use.
 
Downside of no Fire Extinguisher

Boy, you know, we had dozens of pounds to these things when building to guard against any possible situation. The fire extinguisher doesn't seem to me to be the line in the sand.

What's the real downside of having it? What's the downside of not having it?

BTW, it's a handy tool for smashing a canopy if you need to, also.

The downside of no fire extinguisher is the same downside as NO Reserve Fuel. Yes IF it were not against regulation, we could safely fly an airplane from point A to point B and have the engine stop running as we reach our parking spot without needing to turn ignition off or pull mixture to shut engine off. Yes it could be done safely without but if something goes wrong, we sure do not want to be without it.

I have had a HALON extinguisher since the airplane has been flying. The airplane has never flown without it.
 
I have been on the fence on this one for a long time. I guess I am starting to think it is worth having. My hold-up has been that most fires are not going to be fightable from the cockpit. I would be adding a projectile for fighting an instrument panel fire. The components in the panel are suppose to self extinguish when the master is shut off. The FAA, Cessna, Piper, and others apparently do not believe they are necessary. For those that say "Definitely needed", do you also have:

  • [/
  • Helmet
  • Parachute
  • Nomax Flight Suit
  • life preservers
  • Spare air
  • Survival gear
  • First Aid Kit
  • Hand Held Radio
  • Spot Tracker
  • Canopy Breaker
  • 5 Point Harnesses
    LIST]

    One could make a compelling Definitely needed argument for all of these, and they have saved may lives.
 
I have been on the fence on this one for a long time. I guess I am starting to think it is worth having. My hold-up has been that most fires are not going to be fightable from the cockpit. I would be adding a projectile for fighting an instrument panel fire. The components in the panel are suppose to self extinguish when the master is shut off. The FAA, Cessna, Piper, and others apparently do not believe they are necessary. For those that say "Definitely needed", do you also have:

  • [/
  • Helmet
  • Parachute
  • Nomax Flight Suit
  • life preservers
  • Spare air
  • Survival gear
  • First Aid Kit
  • Hand Held Radio
  • Spot Tracker
  • Canopy Breaker
  • 5 Point Harnesses
    LIST]

    One could make a compelling Definitely needed argument for all of these, and they have saved may lives.



  • Like others have mentioned, they are WAY HANDY to have even during non-flight fires. Such as a brake fire or fuel fire while on the ground.... or heck, even an engine fire from a badly flooded start.

    But I will say that from your list I am planning to carry in my RV-7:
    • fire extinguisher (Club 172 has one as well)
    • canopy breaker
    • 5 point harness (we have a 4 point in the 172)
    • spot tracker (will also do an APRS since I am a HAM guy)
    • Hand Held Radio (Carried one in my flight bag since day one). Really handy to have around actually.
    • I'll buy a parachute and wear it for when I am doing aero one day.
    • As for survival gear and first aid kits, I fly in pretty populated areas, so I don't think I'd be waiting long for rescue services in the event I kicked off my ELT. But, if I ever do a flight over sparsely populated areas, I will probably carry something along the lines.
    • Life preserver will only be carried when flying over large bodies of water, where required.
 
one more point

ok, so since nobody has quite covered it yet; here's how I equipped my Rv.

1. spray foam can between the seats, passenger can easily grab and wet down both pairs of legs, to buy some time.
2. Halon or 1-2 lb. B-C between seats on flap motor cover, for continued inflight supression, with understanding the possibly loss of visibility etc.
3. 2 or 3 lb B-C behind flap motor tower in baggage area, for fighting fires outside the aircraft, yours or others!

and yes, everyone wears something fire resistant, nomex coveralls, gloves, canopy breaker in reach ( sharp bolt on base cap of flashlight) survival vest, inflatable life vest, and 4 point harness at a minimum.

(no, I don't get a lot of dates!):D
 
NO dry chemical of any kind ABC, BC, Purple K, for use inside the airplane while in flight. You will not be able to see or breathe. Halon or one of it's newer versions for in flight fires. Also Halon is a gas and will dissipate quickly if used outside like a brake fire.
 
So have we worked out where we can purchase these Halon replacements from yet? I've been looking for a small handheld 3M Novec extinguisher (or any other aircraft safe non ozone depleting product) to mount between the seats, but have been unable to find anything. Anyone have any leads?
Tom.
 
But I will say that from your list I am planning to carry in my RV-7:
  • fire extinguisher (Club 172 has one as well)
  • canopy breaker
  • 5 point harness (we have a 4 point in the 172)
  • spot tracker (will also do an APRS since I am a HAM guy)
  • Hand Held Radio (Carried one in my flight bag since day one). Really handy to have around actually.
  • I'll buy a parachute and wear it for when I am doing aero one day.
  • As for survival gear and first aid kits, I fly in pretty populated areas, so I don't think I'd be waiting long for rescue services in the event I kicked off my ELT. But, if I ever do a flight over sparsely populated areas, I will probably carry something along the lines.
  • Life preserver will only be carried when flying over large bodies of water, where required.

Helmet?

Natural fiber clothing and shoes?

Dave
 
- One forty-five caliber automatic
- Two boxes of ammunition
- Four days' concentrated emergency rations
- One drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine,
vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills
- One miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible
- One hundred dollars in rubles
- One hundred dollars in gold
- Nine packs of chewing gum
- One issue of prophylactics
- Three lipsticks
- Three pair of nylon stockings.
 
Anyone thought about...?

plumbing a tube into the engine compartment to allow discharging a Halon bottle from inside the cockpit and ducting the contents onto an engine fire?

Spring-loaded flap closure might suffice to keep the passageway closed until it was needed to discharge Halon "upstream" into the engine compartment.

Just spitballin'.:confused:
 
- One forty-five caliber automatic
- Two boxes of ammunition
- Four days' concentrated emergency rations
- One drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine,
vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills
- One miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible
- One hundred dollars in rubles
- One hundred dollars in gold
- Nine packs of chewing gum
- One issue of prophylactics
- Three lipsticks
- Three pair of nylon stockings.

Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff. - Maj Kong
 
653d3b07-ea33-45d2-9046-ccf6f74f1870_1000.jpg


We have sold quite a few of these over the years at the shows... although they aren't worth it fiscally. We just like the product.

They have several advantages over Halon. The spray stays put, non-toxic, non-corrosive, cheap. Spray it on your legs if flames are coming in. Cons: the liquid will freeze (but will thaw out too). More of a mess, but easily wiped up or hosed off.

Blake has a limited number of bottle brackets. I have and will continue to have one in my plane. Makes a nice addition to the Halon, or, in my opinion, a suitable substitute.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fire-Gon...DFbYgsYi8EQMbd_zMBDDjhoCKW3w_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
 
653d3b07-ea33-45d2-9046-ccf6f74f1870_1000.jpg


We have sold quite a few of these over the years at the shows... although they aren't worth it fiscally. We just like the product.

They have several advantages over Halon. The spray stays put, non-toxic, non-corrosive, cheap. Spray it on your legs if flames are coming in. Cons: the liquid will freeze (but will thaw out too). More of a mess, but easily wiped up or hosed off.

Blake has a limited number of bottle brackets. I have and will continue to have one in my plane. Makes a nice addition to the Halon, or, in my opinion, a suitable substitute.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fire-Gon...DFbYgsYi8EQMbd_zMBDDjhoCKW3w_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Again, an ABC type extinguisher. Although it might be good for an in-flight fire, if you use it on the ground, you run the risk of totalling your airframe or avionics or both.

I have a BC type extinguisher in my hangar for ground fires, although the county came along about 6 months later and insisted on putting in an ABC extinguisher right next to it. I labelled both accordingly, but of course, in the event of a fire it's likely someone is going to just grab whatever is available and use it.

You can only do so much preparation, I guess.
 
Again, an ABC type extinguisher. Although it might be good for an in-flight fire, if you use it on the ground, you run the risk of totalling your airframe or avionics or both.

I have a BC type extinguisher in my hangar for ground fires, although the county came along about 6 months later and insisted on putting in an ABC extinguisher right next to it. I labelled both accordingly, but of course, in the event of a fire it's likely someone is going to just grab whatever is available and use it.

You can only do so much preparation, I guess.

Since this is not a dry type, does it cause the same risk to the airframe?
 
plumbing a tube into the engine compartment to allow discharging a Halon bottle from inside the cockpit and ducting the contents onto an engine fire?

Spring-loaded flap closure might suffice to keep the passageway closed until it was needed to discharge Halon "upstream" into the engine compartment.

Just spitballin'.:confused:

This system has been posted here before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kswau1mGBE8

To my knowledge, no one has installed one under the cowl of an RV.

The activation temp of 248F may be too low for our under-cowl temps...but it's a neat idea I would love to see adapted to GA.

http://blazecut.com/

https://jogrusa.com/collections/blazecut/products/blazecut-fire-suppression-system-tv100-3
 
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Again, an ABC type extinguisher. Although it might be good for an in-flight fire, if you use it on the ground, you run the risk of totalling your airframe or avionics or both.

I have a BC type extinguisher in my hangar for ground fires, although the county came along about 6 months later and insisted on putting in an ABC extinguisher right next to it. I labelled both accordingly, but of course, in the event of a fire it's likely someone is going to just grab whatever is available and use it.

You can only do so much preparation, I guess.

Joe,

That is incorrect.

DRY chemical ABC extinguishers are the ones that are corrosive.

These AQUEOUS FOAM types are not. You can research it if you like. Here's a simple company brochure:
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/Documents/1894_msds.pdf

If you dig into the chemical properties, you'll see that the two types are completely different.
 
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