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Wing tip alignment

H

Hornet2008

Well Known Member
Searched the forums but couldn't find anyone who had made the same mistake. I attached my wing tips without aligning them with the ailerons. The port tip is 3/8th" low but the starboard one is 9/16th" low. I have used piano hinges to join them to the wings and they look good, however, there is a serious alignment issue. I've read the tips have to be in trail with the flaps and aileron for stability. I saw a couple of posts where the tips have been cut across the trailing edge and up the sides and re-glassed. Is this a possibility?

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dfa6w9.jpg
 
Pete, I have slit wingtips on several project RV's to take care of small misalignment issues, I'm talking about maybe up to 3/16" or so. You have a major alignment problem. A common mistake it is to install the tips prior to installing the wings! The wings have to be installed, flaps set at proper trail and matching each other and the ailerons adjusted to match the flaps. Only then can the tips be installed. I would suggest removing the tips, sealing all holes with epoxy and milled glass mix and start over again. Not only do the tips have to be in trail with the ailerons but the tip trailing edges need to be inline with the aileron trailing edges. To clarify, I mean getting down and sighting down the tip, aileron and flap trailing edges. The only way to achieve that is to start over. What you currently have is not only unsightly but will have a drastic effect on roll trim.
 
You did set the ailerons by using the aileron alignment tool from section c-c on page 15 right? You can't just run a straight edge off the top skins, or match the flaps....
 
Thanks Rex and Derek. Yes, the flaps and ailerons are set to the W-930 tool and the wing chord indicator. I actually did the reverse Rex, I set the wing tips prior to setting flaps and ailerons, hence the problem I now have. Re-doing the whole thing is an option but I've read somewhere( can't find it now) that someone cut across the trailing edge and down along the outboard centre line using a fine tooth blade in a jigsaw. He then adjusted the trailing edge of his wing tips. Is this possible or will it affect the flying characteristics of the wing? I can almost bend them up into position but it buckles the top side of the tip.
 
I don't think that splitting the ends will work with the amount of correction you need. It would only impart a bunch of unwanted twist to the tips.

I would drill out the piano hinges on the fiberglass tips, patch up the holes then redrill. You can offset the new holes in the tips and on the existing hinge section between the original holes.

The wing tips can be moved around as it sits inside the wing skins at the leading edge. Trailing edge end will move quite a bit up or down as you move around the wing tips at the leading edge. Once you get the aft trailing edge aligned with the ailerons, clamp it down and start drilling/clecoing.
 
Dbro172 said:
You did set the ailerons by using the aileron alignment tool from section c-c on page 15 right? You can't just run a straight edge off the top skins, or match the flaps....
Click to expand...
I'm away I'm my plans at the moment, but I'm fairly sure the tool you're talking about only provides the necessary movement at the bellcrank - not the aileron - so the length of the aileron pushrod will affect the final position of the aileron even with the bellcrank in the proper position.

To set the aileron, you need to run a straight edge off the top of the wing, and have the top skin of the aileron up against it, IIRC...
 
Unfortunately I have drilled 3/16" flox holes in between the soft rivets and filled them with flox. Probably won't be too hard to get the old hinges out. I had planned to use a long length of AL angle clamped under the aileron and flaps to align the wing tip once I cut it( haven't decided to cut as yet). Worst case scenario is to replace both wing tips. Hope it isn't going to come to that. How is phase one going Bruce? I often visit your great website, there is a wealth of information there.
 
I'd just remove everything, lay down a couple of plies of fiberglass cloth over the existing holes inside the tips, fill the existing holes with flox and start over. The great thing about fiberglass is that you can fix mistakes most of the time. All it takes is patience and a willingness to do it right
 
Don't think so...

KRviator said:
I'm away I'm my plans at the moment, but I'm fairly sure the tool you're talking about only provides the necessary movement at the bellcrank - not the aileron - so the length of the aileron pushrod will affect the final position of the aileron even with the bellcrank in the proper position.

To set the aileron, you need to run a straight edge off the top of the wing, and have the top skin of the aileron up against it, IIRC...
Click to expand...

There are two tools; the aileron alignment tool and the bellcrank jig. The ailerons are NOT set by running a straight edge off the top wing skins. (At least on the -9)

It is possible to set and rig the ailerons and the wing tips without ever installing the flaps, or the wings on the plane.
 
Dbro172 said:
There are two tools; the aileron alignment tool and the bellcrank jig. The ailerons are NOT set by running a straight edge off the top wing skins. (At least on the -9)

It is possible to set and rig the ailerons and the wing tips without ever installing the flaps, or the wings on the plane.
Click to expand...

For the RV-8, this is the guidance the instructions provide: center the ailerons using the aileron alignment tool (to neutral) and then set the wing tips with the ailerons neutral. We shall see if this works for me, but isn't the point to have the ailerons neutral with the wing tips installed? I would presume the wing tips and the flaps are set against the neutral ailerons.
 
That is a lot of adjustment needed, but try the "slit tip re-bond" method first. It might work. You have nothing to lose. If it does not work, then re-align the tips.

By the time that you fly, and adjust for heavy wings, and aileron height, etc etc it is possible that you will be making other adjustments anyway.

I really don't think that a slight twist in the tip cap will ever be noticed in flight characteristics or drag.
 
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I am with Bruce. I think you would get too much twist by splitting the ends.
I would replace just the top or bottom hinge half at the wing. It won't take much to get it back in alignment. Probably a 1/8" movement of the hinge. Drilling twenty rivets would be easier than repairing the fiberglass.
My other concern is the gap at the top of the aileron. From the picture it looks like you have a larger than normal gap between the aileron and top wing skin. I found another picture online and cropped it to get a similar angle to yours and it looks like a smaller gap.
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Could you also have something else going on.
 
aerovin said:
For the RV-8, this is the guidance the instructions provide: center the ailerons using the aileron alignment tool (to neutral) and then set the wing tips with the ailerons neutral. We shall see if this works for me, but isn't the point to have the ailerons neutral with the wing tips installed? I would presume the wing tips and the flaps are set against the neutral ailerons.
Click to expand...

Correct! Set the ailerons neutral with the alignment tool. (Mark or secure this location somehow so you can remove the alignment tool and set the wing tips.). Align the wing tips to the aileron neutral position. Flaps can't be set until the wings are installed to the fuse and the rear spar is drilled. Then the flaps are adjusted to match alignment of the ailerons as well, but at this point there is also some alignment of the flaps to the bottom of the fuse that can be referenced and adjusted too.

I boogered up one wingtip, it is about 1/4" low per se. Like someone else mentioned though, I think I'm going to fly it first and go from there
 
Hornet2008 said:
How is phase one going Bruce? I often visit your great website, there is a wealth of information there.
Click to expand...

Phase 1 is on hold for me. I shipped my COM unit back to Dynon for diagnostics, and also have the SV backup battery and EMS unit out for servicing. :mad:

You should be able to get the hinge off the fiberglass with some dremel bit persuasion. Buy a new hinge section and reattach. Heck of a lot cheaper than buying new tips.
 
Before you cut any fiberglass on the wing tips. Make sure that your aileron is aligned using the tool. Essentially it draws a strait line between the tooling holes on the ribs extended out to the center of the aileron trailing edge. Then with the bellcrank rest position fixture in place, adjust the aileron pushrod so it is centered on that strait edge position. The fiberglass tip should align to that position. Flap rest position is aligned to aileron.

Mine worked out without any deviation at all using this method. Tips were spot on. Your aileron looks like it is up slightly to me. Recheck it's alignment before doing anything drastic.
 
If you're not wild about the wooden alignment tool, I ran a couple of short AN3 bolts through the tooling holes and used a long aluminum straightedge to gauge the aileron alignment. I didn't happen to have a long strip of wood around (easily fixed) and my table saw is in the storage unit so I have room for the airplane (not so easily fixed). The straightedge method worked just fine for me.

Description and pics here. I didn't get a picture after the last tweak of the pushrod, so it doesn't look like the aileron was dead on center - but it was when I finished.
 
On my 7, I aligned the aileron with the TOOLING holes in the outer rib and long straight edge, and then locked the bell crank with the alighnment tool, then adjusted the rod from bell crank to aileron, Then you can remove your straight edge from the outer rib and install the tip, as long as you make certan the bell crank does not move with the bell crank tool installed.
 
Difference with Wingtip

Hello All,
Bringing this post back. Reading it I saw that the fix would be reworking the wingtips. I would like to get opinions on my case as well.
I used the Aileron Alignment Tool and after set the aileron t neutral, I positioned the wing tip and this is what I got:

For RH Installation
AXTSYA8l.jpg



For LH Installation
7xtWPodl.jpg



Tool Setup
45mA4S8l.jpg


Appreciate any review, thank you.
 
Similar to what I had

That?s similar to what I remember having, about a half inch either side, opposite direction on white gel coat tips. I had rejected fwd and rear ribs along with some fab ( faking the aileron extension) that I used as jigs for revision. My pictures tell me I cut across the back and forward about 16?. I also got to do the second one twice because I twisted it, it had a droop to the outboard edge (half-a55ed Horner tip ;) ), so watch out for that. I used a few dabs of 5-minute epoxy to get the position set, then went into the real layup. Really, it was not bad and a decently rewarding task, as fiberglass goes.
 
It?s been awhile but I split the trailing edge and re glued them. Then f/g for strength and micro to fair in and then paint. Flying 18 months, no problems.
 
Good Info

Thank you all for the feedback on this. Seems like I will be adjusting the wingtips. Probably not big deal. If anyone has pictures to share about the rework process, I do appreciate.
Happy flying weekend!
 
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