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RV-4 for first build?

ijustwannafly

Well Known Member
Well here I am wanting to order a kit. A complete rookie. I have ordered my isham tool kit which is on the way.

I am a first time builder and I'm leaning towards a 7.
However i can't shake the fact that i think the 3 and 4 are the sexiest looking of them all. I know they have totally different missions and thats fine. However, for my none specific mission of just having fun flying locally and occasional trip the 4 or 7 would meet the bill

I am terrified to even consider a 4 with the lack of availability of match drilled kits.

So here is my question. I do believe that anyone can build these planes just like vans says. With enough time, study and persistence I'm sure anyone can. However, i feel like the 3 and 4 non match drilled kits really present a whole new level of difficulty.

What do you guys think about a complete rookie embarking on a none match drilled kit like the 4? I personally think its lunacy but that is because i don't know much of anything at this stage in the game. I think a match drilled kit is much better for the rookie (me)!
Because of this I'm leaning towards a 7.

Does vans provide plans for building jigs for the 3 and 4?
Are they any commercially available jigs? I read somewhere about something called a "frey" jig?
 
I built a 4 and it was not difficult. There is very little jigging required and Vans instructions are very good. I happen to like the configuration of the 4, but the side by side of the 7 will have advantages. If you want to get instruction in your plane a 7 would be much more likely to please an instructor. It is probably a bit easier to sell the 7 later. They both fly in a very similar fashion, so no advantages there.
Having said all that I still prefer the 4, it is just good fun to fly.
 
It isn't lunacy. 1,371 RV-4's have been built according to Van's website, and most of those were built by first-timers. Don't let it stop you from building the airplane you want.
 
My first project was an RV4. I was a bit hesitant at first but after drilling a few holes I really got into it and 17 months later the airplane was flying. They are NOT harder to build then the RV14 that I am working on now, they just take more time. With the RV14 you are pretty limited on what you can do to the aircraft structure, prepunched parts do not allow any minor deviations from the plans.
Each RV4 is a bit different from the next one, which I think is kind of cool.
I would suggest that as a first time builder you purchase a pre made main spar.

Go for it!
 
Figure ou the Mission

i agree with Moose. HOWEVER, despite what Yen says, in my opinion, the plans and the drawing need some work. I love my 4 and have been flying it for two years.
The photos in the plans book are very poor quality and Vans has decided not to put any money or effort into updating the plans with quality photos and better organization. Not even a FAQ addendum.
I know I will take some incoming for this, but for crying out loud, if you are going to sell a product, then sell the best product you can sell. If you are going to list the 4 as one of the aircraft kits in your stable, then improve the offering at least a little bit.
If you build a 4, there will be times when you need a dimension and it will be like ?Finding Waldo?. If it's the weekend then you wait till Monday and call the support guys at Vans. Can?t complain about the guys on the support line. They will answer your questions. But it goes like this, ? Oh that dimension, that?s on drawing 4, I know you are on drawing 6 but that is where the dimension is? Go figure. In fact, you will have a lot of those go figure moments. As far as a jig goes, for the fuselage, a carefully built wooden jig per vans plans will work just fine. There are some very good build logs on the web. For the 4, Steve Sampson?s ?Ikon? was the most helpful for me. The videos can be bought second hand or at retail and are worth the price.

You will be flying sooner if you go with a pre-punched kit. I built my 4 for me. The times that I have passengers are probably in the 1 to 3 percent. If you plan to fly with passengers a lot, then a side by side will probably be better. If your passengers are not small aircraft veterans, then the back seat of a 4 (or an 8) can be a little scary.
There are more that one RV7 that has been built after the builder had already built a 4 or an 8 because the wife needed to sit beside her hubby.

If you can find someone nearby that has a flying 4. Give him/her a call and find out when they are doing their condition inspect so the cowlings will be off and the avionics bay will be open. You will see how crowded everything is on the 4. I can tell you that when the guys at my field have their cowlings off on the 8 or the 7, I marvel at how much room they have for all the components.

Figure out what the mission is for your aircraft then make the decision on which one to build.
 
Thanks for all the good suggestions and thoughts.

Like i was saying in the OP, the mission is not the problem like most people have.

The 4 or 7 would fit my mission plan as its a very basic one. Just recreational fun flying with the occasional trip. Like once a year perhaps.

This is more about the fact that i have no idea if i have the skills required to attempt a non pre punched kit. Like suggested above, i will def order the prebuilt Spar and it seems i can get match drilled wings. I have this little thought in my head, "as if building an airplane is not hard enough do we really wanna build one that is svn harder then a regular kit"

So the issue is now the fuse and emp kit.
I just think the 4 is ooooooooooo so sexy :D
 
I'm building an RV-3B and the lack of pre-punched holes is not a big deal. It just takes more time to line things up and check positions before drilling.

The plans are definitely not as good as the newer aircraft, especially the double-digit models, with their step-by-step process. The -3 plans are a set of drawings and a manual and are mostly sufficient but you'll have to do some thinking. A lot of thinking.

The jigs are reasonable but you will need to make some.

Dave
 
Get over the fear.

You will just have to do some research and get a used copy off ebay or someplace of the "First X number of years of the RVAtor" or whatever it is called. Back in the day the newsletter was actually printed on paper and you had to actually mark and drill your own holes. Despite recent trends in building airplanes will fly just fine if the rivet holes aren't located with 0.003" tolerance. The old RVAtors were filled with tips and such on how easily to located the wholes, etc. but just to get your started here is one for free: Invest in a stainless steel drill and on a drill press drill a number of holes spaced at 1.25" apart in a straight line down the center of the rule. Then when you need to lay out a number of rivet holes that spacing can be marked easily with a sharpie by using this rule. There are other ways but that worked for me. There are other rivet spacings called for that that is common one for 3/32 rivets on the RV-4.

BTW - while not match drilled the sing skins are prepunched on the RV-4 now which simplifies things a bit. Caution -the rib spacing called on the lanes doesn't jive perfectly with the pre-punched wing skins so you need to adjust that. Don't worry by the time you get to that point you will know what I'm talking about and how to do it.


Net net.

Go for it.
 
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I built a -4 14 years ago. The drawings and directions left much to be desired. I recently ordered -4 drawings on CD. They are essentially unchanged from 25 years ago. The -7 and -14 drawins I have seen are much better than the -4 drawings. While it is true that many have built -4's, I would bet the build times are longer and the completion rate lower than with the newer kits. If you want a plane to fly, pick the one want to fly. If you want to build a plane, pick based on that. You can always buy a flying -4 for less than its parts value.
 
Well thanks for all the thoughts guys

The decision just became much easier! The wife just nixed my 4 lol

She finally fessed up and admitted she likes sitting up front with me

Maybe someday a 4 will be in the cards or perhaps a 3.

Now, time to call vans and order my EMP kit!!

Thanks again for all the great points.
 
Told you so..

Well thanks for all the thoughts guys

The decision just became much easier! The wife just nixed my 4 lol

She finally fessed up and admitted she likes sitting up front with me

Maybe someday a 4 will be in the cards or perhaps a 3.

Now, time to call vans and order my EMP kit!!

Thanks again for all the great points.

You coulda just listened to me and saved these people all that typing! :cool: Just kidding. Glad to see you've made a decision. When you're done with the 7 and flying, we can finish up a couple of 3s together.. :rolleyes:
 
I love my RV4. With that said the side by side models make more sense. You don't have to worry so much about CG. A tail heavy RV can be extremely light in pitch (as in no stick resistance). Each will cost about the same to build and face it, RV4s do not bring as much $$ in the market. I think you are making a good choice.
I still have a cool factor that money can't buy though :D
 
Maybe a wet blanket -- but ...

Well thanks for all the thoughts guys

The decision just became much easier! The wife just nixed my 4 lol

She finally fessed up and admitted she likes sitting up front with me

Maybe someday a 4 will be in the cards or perhaps a 3.

Now, time to call vans and order my EMP kit!!

Thanks again for all the great points.

Good choice! Happy Wife, Happy Life.
If she's your soulmate, she will still have to be a source of moral support while building whatever it is to be.

Any decision to build an airplane has many other elements; Mission, Finances, Length of build, Cost to operate, Skills & Resources of builder, etc.

Your thread is "I Just Wanna Fly ..." so pick what gets you in the air. Your wife may be less willing to wait as long as mine has.

After 8.5 yrs building a "QuickBuild" RV-6A I can attest to the length of time, project interruptions, and difficulty of a first-time builder ... and have already decided to become a repeat offender on an RV-14A someday to finish an airplane in under 2 yrs instead.

gary
 
Good choice! Happy Wife, Happy Life.
If she's your soulmate, she will still have to be a source of moral support while building whatever it is to be.

Any decision to build an airplane has many other elements; Mission, Finances, Length of build, Cost to operate, Skills & Resources of builder, etc.

Your thread is "I Just Wanna Fly ..." so pick what gets you in the air. Your wife may be less willing to wait as long as mine has.

After 8.5 yrs building a "QuickBuild" RV-6A I can attest to the length of time, project interruptions, and difficulty of a first-time builder ... and have already decided to become a repeat offender on an RV-14A someday to finish an airplane in under 2 yrs instead.

gary

Thanks gary

The name "i just wanna fly" is actually the name of my aviation blog and it just made sense to carry it over here.

Thanks for the thoughts though! Finish up that 6 so we can hear how cool it is! I wanna see first flight pictures!
 
Good choice :). Aside from building and flying the plane you want......no one mentioned value/resale. I've had 5 RV4's and forget how many 7's I've had. If you are building, the best value will be the 7.......by a long shot.


Well thanks for all the thoughts guys

The decision just became much easier! The wife just nixed my 4 lol

She finally fessed up and admitted she likes sitting up front with me

Maybe someday a 4 will be in the cards or perhaps a 3.

Now, time to call vans and order my EMP kit!!

Thanks again for all the great points.
 
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