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Question for fastback builders/owners

9

9erDriver

Well Known Member
Would you do it again?

Considering the Showplanes conversion, and I like the thought of better interior ergonomics, rear panel access, and especially the overall look.... BUT...fear I will really miss the convenience of the slider.

Feedback from fastback guys requested.

thanks -steve
 
9erDriver said:
Would you do it again?
Click to expand...

Yes, no question.

Considering the Showplanes conversion, and I like the thought of better interior ergonomics, rear panel access, and especially the overall look.... BUT...fear I will really miss the convenience of the slider.
Click to expand...

Convenience? You'll need to explain.
 
My friends having his engine re-built in his RV 8 so he has been flying with me for a few weeks in the Fastback. He cant believe how cosy it is without all the cold wind he gets in his with the slider!

extra work but well worth it

Dave
 
Dave Stephens said:
My friends having his engine re-built in his RV 8 so he has been flying with me for a few weeks in the Fastback. He cant believe how cosy it is without all the cold wind he gets in his with the slider!
Click to expand...

Well now there is something I hadn't considered. Interesting point.
 
DanH said:
Yes, no question.



Convenience? You'll need to explain.
Click to expand...


Maybe 'convenience' is not the right word, Dan. Specifically, I like the fact that in my 9 while taxiing I can slide the canopy open for unlimited fresh air in warm weather, also it would seem to me that entering and exiting the cockpit might be easier with the slider - I may be wrong, and that's why I'm seeking opinions of fastback drivers. thanks for yours.

BTW, how easy and comfortable is taxiing with the fastback partially open in warm weather? -steve
 
9erDriver said:
BTW, how easy and comfortable is taxiing with the fastback partially open in warm weather? -steve
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You get more air than with the slider, since the prop blast blows directly through from the front.

Visibility straight ahead is a bit worse; I need to lean forward for a clear view over the nose if the canopy is latched into taxi position. Wouldn't make any difference on an A-model.

I can always reach the canopy when I'm solo.

If you wear a parachute and expect to get out, the tipup may be a better bet. No, I'm not testing mine for you ;)

It is indeed less drafty than a slider.

It is easier to clean the inside.

The mid-cockpit roll bar (a huge handhold) makes entry and exit far easier for both seats. The canopy is completely out of the way, unlike a slider where the backseater tends to bump his butt. And the raised turtledeck is another means of support for stepping to/from the wing walk.

I could go on, but......yeah, I like it.

 
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piece o cake

9erDriver said:
Would you do it again?

Considering the Showplanes conversion, and I like the thought of better interior ergonomics, rear panel access, and especially the overall look.... BUT...fear I will really miss the convenience of the slider.

Feedback from fastback guys requested.

thanks -steve
Click to expand...

Hey Steve:

Putting the higher back on the fuse is no problem, and getting a slider to seal up is another process that has been well worked out on 160+ versions of the F1. While the F1 parts won't actually fit your ship, ones that mimic them, but made to fit your ship, will work fine. The fwd slant of the windshield bow gives more room to get in & out, if that is any sort of factor.

I can help with some tips if you want to proceed with producing your own parts for this application.

Carry on!
Mark
 
excellent feedback

Thanks, guys, for all of the valuable feedback. You sold me - I'm gonna do it. Do we know of any other 8A fastbacks out there, or will mine will be the first?

-steve
 
A different view

With a recent incident of a plane coming immediately over me from behind during my climb-out and my visibility being blocked until within a few hundred feet due to the center/overhead brace and fastback on my -6 (despite a controller telling me the plane was there), I have really become aware of the wonderful 360 degree view of the slider -8. I now look frequently behind me in the -8, easily seeing the right and left side of the tail. My only complaint is the visually disruptive bar in front of me, but I doubt that it compromises safety as much as a fastback. I can't wait to fly the completely unencumbered, tip-over RV-3B! I have no interest in a fastback. And, personally, I don't like the fastback looks as much as the full-bubble canopy.

Might feel different if I was into racing, but certainly not for recreation and commuting use.
 
Louise Hose said:
....my visibility being blocked until within a few hundred feet due to the center/overhead brace and fastback on my -6.....I have really become aware of the wonderful 360 degree view of the slider -8. I now look frequently behind me in the -8, easily seeing the right and left side of the tail.
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The height of the fastback mod is indeed near identical to the height of the stock fastback on the 6 and 7. Of course the 8 is far more narrow. Here's the eyeline view over my shoulder....



....which unlike a 6/7 is the same to either side.

My only complaint is the visually disruptive bar in front of me, but I doubt that it compromises safety as much as a fastback.
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Only when you look forward or up into a turn ;)
 
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Steve----

Here's mine. Taken one year ago today, coincidently....looks remarkably similar today :eek:

P1010005.JPG





One of the flying examples I know of....owner unknown

IMG_0026.JPG





And one I got from ShowPlanes

IMG_0747.jpg
 
I got to sit in this Show Planes 8a when I visited them a couple years back.

IMG_0747.jpg


Visibility is superb, and although I did not get a chance to taxi or fly it, when they demonstrated the canopy in taxi position, I could definitely see the advantage it offered over a standard slider.

And for me, the big plus is the additional shoulder room that the changing of the top rail covers make.

Additional benefit is the access to the rear of the instrument panel.

If I ever get to build an 8, the Show Planes canopy is number one on my list of mods.
 
Mike S said:
Visibility is superb, and although I did not get a chance to taxi or fly it, when they demonstrated the canopy in taxi position...
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Can you describe the "taxi position"? I've seen this configuration with both a tip-over and a slider canopy. The only one that would appear to lend itself to having a taxi position would be the slider. Conversely, a tip-forward or tip-aft canopy would have its attractions, as well.
 
The tip over of the ShowPlanes mod has an intermediate or partial "open" setting on the tilt/lock...maybe 2-3 inches above the left rail. It is held in this position mechanically. It allows quite a bit of prop air flow to blow through the front area of the canopy skirt as well.

Dan, do have any pics?

Joe
 
Which Canopy to use?

In an email I got from Todd (Todds Canopies) he mentioned some RV-8 fastback builders have used the Harmon Rocket bubble. Don't think he meant Showplanes specifically? (He shows a slider on the website)
Does anyone have any experience of this, or any recommendation which one to use on the ShowPlanes FB
1 stock vans (tint?)
2 Todds RV-8
3 Todds Harmon Rocket
4 Other?

Paul
 
I see what DanH means, but....

DanH said:
The height of the fastback mod is indeed near identical to the height of the stock fastback on the 6 and 7. Of course the 8 is far more narrow. Here's the eyeline view over my shoulder....

hwhjq1.jpg


....which unlike a 6/7 is the same to either side.
Click to expand...

I see that you're right in the -8. I had been thinking about what it would do in the -3, where the pilot's head is immediately against the opaque back (as the passenger's head is in the -8). I, personally, wouldn't like that situation as either the pilot of a -3 or passenger in the -8 nearly as well.
 
Option 2

Louise Hose said:
I see that you're right in the -8. I had been thinking about what it would do in the -3, where the pilot's head is immediately against the opaque back (as the passenger's head is in the -8). I, personally, wouldn't like that situation as either the pilot of a -3 or passenger in the -8 nearly as well.
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Geez Louise

How 'bout a lil' maneuvering to see what's behind/below etc? Kick the tail over a bit if nothing else. These are kinda maneuverable ships, ya know...;)

Carry on!
Mark
 
Count Me In!

I plan on doing the showplanes conversion when I start my 8 in the spring. It will make it so the plane can be flown more often in the winter, as there will be less draft. I also like the fact that there is not a front crossbar about forehead height (for me) in front of the pilot. I have used the tilt up like this in the Pitts and it works nicely. Also emergency egress has been proved with this design already, as it tends to come off when opened for emergency in flight. If you are jumping out of the plane, you are not going to be too worried about messing up your empennage.

Is the rear visibility hampered. Absolutely, but it is still way better than a Mooney, Piper, Beechcraft, and Many Cessnas. Not to mention Cirrus, Lancair, and many other planes. As already mentioned, listen to position reports, and move yourself a little to clear and check you area. That is one of the first things I learned when I started to fly.

There is my 2 cents!
 
I think that the rear visibility issue is a total non issue. I very much doubt that if your shoulder harnesses are done up correctly that you could actually swivel your head 180 degrees; at least my head does not do that. As Mark Fredrick stated you can kick the tail a bit if you need to see directly aft. I have to admit that I have not been passed that often...
In looking at the show planes pictures it just does not seem that the line of the canopy and aft fuselage deck is correct. Either the bubble is too high or the turtle deck needs to be a bit higher. This is just personal preference but I never cared for the lines of the standard RV8 bubble and this modification just did not go far enough. Check out pictures of F1s and HRIIs to see what I mean, it really does make a difference.
 
I think if you use a todd's canopy for the f1 or harmon rocket in conjunction with the showplanes kit you'll get the appropriate rake on the canopy blending in with the fastback.
 
Rearview Visibility

As far as rearward visibility goes, I've seen mirrors, shaped a little like parentheses, on the canopy bows of tactical aircraft. I seem to recall seeing a picture of an RV-8 that had at least one of them. I mean, when I fly a C-172 I use a little handheld mirror to see the aft control surfaces move during my runup. Anyone have any thought, or maybe sources, for mirrors like this?
 
Mark12A said:
As far as rearward visibility goes, I've seen mirrors, shaped a little like parentheses, on the canopy bows of tactical aircraft. I seem to recall seeing a picture of an RV-8 that had at least one of them. I mean, when I fly a C-172 I use a little handheld mirror to see the aft control surfaces move during my runup. Anyone have any thought, or maybe sources, for mirrors like this?
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Do a forum search for "mirrors", and I bet you'll get lots of information - these are discussed fairly frequently....;)
 
Ironflight said:
Do a forum search for "mirrors", and I bet you'll get lots of information - these are discussed fairly frequently....;)
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Thanks; the mirrors I remember seeing are on Don's RV-8 "Smoky". We couldn't put them on F-16s, but it wasn't a big deal. Simple solutions like Auto Zone or the local motorcycle shop are often the best...
 
Tom Martin said:
...In looking at the show planes pictures it just does not seem that the line of the canopy and aft fuselage deck is correct. Either the bubble is too high or the turtle deck needs to be a bit higher. This is just personal preference but I never cared for the lines of the standard RV8 bubble and this modification just did not go far enough. Check out pictures of F1s and HRIIs to see what I mean, it really does make a difference.
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I agree. It would be nice if the turtle deck was just a bit higher to smooth out the top line. If you could get the smooth lines of the Tom Clark fastback in a showplanes tip over I'd be all over it. (I hope Deene doesn't mind me linking his picture) http://i48.tinypic.com/5d89u.jpg
 
Tom Martin said:
I think that the rear visibility issue is a total non issue...
...In looking at the show planes pictures it just does not seem that the line of the canopy and aft fuselage deck is correct. Either the bubble is too high or the turtle deck needs to be a bit higher. This is just personal preference but I never cared for the lines of the standard RV8 bubble and this modification just did not go far enough. Check out pictures of F1s and HRIIs to see what I mean, it really does make a difference.
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Agree on all counts.

A friend of mine has this drop dead sexy F1:

vertical1.JPG


This configuration has to be the most ?limited? in visibility of any fastback configuration (windscreen bow, high turtledeck) and it is still vastly superior to most any other airplane out there. Certainly better than a Cherokee, Mooney, Bo, etc. Anybody want to see what limited visibility is like, try a Hiperbipe... It's like flying while looking through a cardboard tube.

To the OP?s question, though I don?t have a fastback, I don?t find the ?slider? canopy all that appealing in actual practice. I did get the ?opportunity? to add the flat wrap windscreen to the -8, and if (God forbid) I need to replace the canopy some day, I will seriously think about doing a fastback conversion. It will almost certainly feature a throw over canopy as well.
 
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Too funny!!! :eek::eek::eek:The guy from post 7 is hosting a new picture where he had an aircraft picture before. How embarrassing, someone should tell him.

To keep this post ON Topic. My fastback 4 is coming along nicely just need to stop having second thoughts about making it a slider too.
 
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How high is it?

Hey guys and gals,

How tall is the Showplanes turtle deck from the upper longeron?

Just picked up a partially built 8 project and I'm planning on doing a fastback. I'd like to just buy the Showplanes kit and be done with it, but as a previous poster mentioned, I'm not crazy about the bubble. I want the turtle deck to blend in smoothly. So, while I'm ordinarily lazy, I'll do it from scratch to get the right angle. I'll also talk to Todd about using the rocket canopy.

Feel free to throw any other advice my way.

Thanks, Lance
 
southtarnation said:
Too funny!!! :eek::eek::eek:The guy from post 7 is hosting a new picture where he had an aircraft picture before. How embarrassing, someone should tell him...
Click to expand...

Thats the problem with some of these picture hosting sites. Apparently, the URL for "your" picture gets reused after a time. Ive had a few changed on me as well.
 
Answer to your question is that the top of the forward end of the fastback is about 18.5" above the longeron.

I didn't care for the 'bubble' (as you describe it) either, plus I prefer a slider canopy over a flop over canopy. I had one of Brian's FB kits and just used the tail cone section. Then I used the parts left over from Vans and made mine into a slider. Nice smooth fastback and best of all (for me) is that it's a slider.

If someone needs a flop over I have all the parts leftover collecting dust.

judoka5051 said:
Hey guys and gals,

How tall is the Showplanes turtle deck from the upper longeron?

Just picked up a partially built 8 project and I'm planning on doing a fastback. I'd like to just buy the Showplanes kit and be done with it, but as a previous poster mentioned, I'm not crazy about the bubble. I want the turtle deck to blend in smoothly. So, while I'm ordinarily lazy, I'll do it from scratch to get the right angle. I'll also talk to Todd about using the rocket canopy.

Feel free to throw any other advice my way.

Thanks, Lance
Click to expand...
 
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