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51% Rule for RV10

S

Shays

Active Member
Hi Guys,

I am currently using a builder assist and I am working with them together, not in all times, some of the time I work alone. I was trying to determine how much credit I get for each task that I do. The only source I found was this:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultralights/amateur_built/kits/media/am_blt_chklist_job_aid.pdf

Is there any other source for RV10 or is this it?

Should I consider that all the task amount under the AM-Builder columns (C&D) as the maximum amount of credit I will get assuming I did that entire task? Or is there another source per plane that brakes it down differently?

Did anyone create an excel or some other system to help track this based on tasks allocated by the FFA for each portion?

Much appreciated,

Nir
 
From my research, any work that you are a part of, including professional assistance, counts towards the 51%. You can have 100% professional assistance as long as you are present for every hour of it. In fact, it doesn't have to be you. It can be ANY amatuer builder. What doesn't count is paying someone to do the work that you are not a part of.

If you are doing a quick build, that could be a problem, as 49% has already been done by professionals.

EDIT: Ignore the previous statement. I misread your post and thought the assistance service did work without you.

Larry
 
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lr172 said:
(SNIP)
If you are doing a quick build, that could be a problem, as 49% has already been done by professionals.

Larry
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I don't think that's correct. I'm sure MEL or someone will come along and provide a proper quote of the regs.

The so-called "51%" rule is often misunderstood. IMHO, the rule states that an amateur builder must perform 51% of the OPERATIONS that are required to build an aircraft. NOT 51% of the hours required to build one.

A quick-built kit merely buys you time. The builder of a Quick Built aircraft still can perform nearly 100% of the OPERATIONS required to build the plane. (Otherwise, how could a "2-weeks to taxi" program exist?)

I stand ready to be corrected, of course...............
 
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lr172 said:
From my research, any work that you are a part of, including professional assistance, counts towards the 51%. You can have 100% professional assistance as long as you are present for every hour of it. In fact, it doesn't have to be you. It can be ANY amateur builder. What doesn't count is paying someone to do the work that you are not a part of.

If you are doing a quick build, that could be a problem, as 49% has already been done by professionals.

Larry
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The reg and form for compliance, use the term tasks. As one who built a QB kit, I can assure you that the QB does NOT do 49% of the tasks. In fact I had to drill out rivets and redo two of the main longerons on my QB because they were riveted with skins dimpled and longerons NOT countersunk. The QB does nothing for the fiberglass work, which is both a large number of tasks and huge amount of hours. It does nothing for wiring, and clearly paid close attention to keeping the remaining tasks to well above the 51% level.
 
Unless you are writing a check for the aiplane to be built, you should be OK. There is a FAA checklist for kits that are not on the approved 51% kit list. My recommendation would be to discuss it with your DAR.

Vic's opinion (and as a DAR)---the fact that you are aware of your obligations tells me that you should be fine. :). Just be prepared to have documentation if asked.

Vic
 
Pete is correct. Plus there are tasks that don?t account against the percentage, because the FAA expects them to be done by professionals.

To educate yourself and get the real facts, call Van?s on Tuesday and ask for the form they submitted to the FAA for the RV-10 quick build. It will list all the tasks the FAA measures and the exact percentages for the quick build kit. You have the generic form, but the Van?s version will have some of the data filled in and approved by the FAA to meet the 51% rule.

At the end, you have to sign a document stating the the aircraft was 51% amateur built. Also, this doesn?t mean built by you. It could be fifty people as long as you didn?t pay any of them. It also asks what tasks were professionally done.

If you list quick build by Van?s, panel by AFS, Stein, or Aerotronics, and painted by your favorite painter, you?ll be fine. I can assure you that FSDO or a DAR won?t question you on the details unless they have direct knowledge of you using a paid professional builder to assist that would cause you not to be 51% amateur built.
 
vic syracuse said:
Vic's opinion (and as a DAR)---the fact that you are aware of your obligations tells me that you should be fine. :). Just be prepared to have documentation if asked.

Vic
Click to expand...

I would assume that the conversation during the DAR inspection would make it clear that you did build the plane. Is that sufficient? What documentation would you recommend? Would a handwritten builders log and photos be enough? Would you recommend completing the FAA task list to show which tasks you completed to meet the 51% rule.
 
From my experience, the required AND notarized 8130-12 will satisfy the DAR responsibilities and concerns regarding fabrication issues. After all the builder/applicant is certifying to the FAA that the aircraft complies with the amateur build standards. Additionally the form allows for more than one person to be included in the certification.
 
Thank you all for your response.

I will call Vans to see if they have a broken down tasks list. I do not have a QB kit just a standard kit. What I wanted to do is brake down the number of tasks that are considered tasks, it seems like not everything is considered a task under the 51% rule. If I am able to get a hold of a list of what is considered a task what does not and based on that accumulate my side of things the would be great.

Does anyone know where I can find a list of DARs in my area?

Thank you,
 
RV10Pilot said:
I would assume that the conversation during the DAR inspection would make it clear that you did build the plane. Is that sufficient? What documentation would you recommend? Would a handwritten builders log and photos be enough? Would you recommend completing the FAA task list to show which tasks you completed to meet the 51% rule.
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No. I honestly think you are too concerned about it if what you are saying is true---that you are doing most of the owrk. Handwritten builder's logs and photos are sufficient. Again---talk to your DAR. For me as a DAR, what you have described is no problem.

Vic
 
I will keep updating on my findings as this might be useful to others:

One thing I learned today after reading the AC 20-27G is that there are some items that are A non-checklist item, Paint, Avionics and interior work basically whatever is not in the Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist (2009)

AC 20-27G Link https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-27G.pdf

Identifying Which Items Can Be Installed Using Commercial Assistance. You may get unlimited commercial assistance for non-checklist items on a kit evaluated by the FAA. A non-checklist item is a task or process that is not listed on the Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist (2009). These items also include painting and the installation of interior upholstery or avionics. Such a task or process would not be required to be personally completed by the amateur builder for the aircraft to receive an airworthiness certificate under ? 21.191(g). Other non-checklist items include fabrication of engines, propellers, wheels and brake assemblies, and standard aircraft hardware.
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