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Convert VFR aircraft to IFR

H

HBpilot

Active Member
With a Dynon D-180, a non ADS-B compliant transponder, no other instruments installed, what would it take to modify it, to make it ifr capable ?
Only looking for enroute IFR flying in Florida, nothing less than 1000ft ceiling.
I was not the builder on that RV so I cannot do the work, any estimate on time and cost, to do such modification ?
Thanks
 
A Garmin GNX 375 will do it, $8,000. Install would depend on how much work needs to go into mounting it in your panel but it just needs a coax connection to its antenna which is an easy install ... it's the panel mounting that would be the big question mark.

The only thing that makes it IFR is a certified navigator and the pilot rating.

Also consider spending $1200 on a Garmin G5 as a backup instrument, easy install. The G5 will give you a 4 hour safety net in the case all your gear fails in the muck.
 
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HBpilot said:
With a Dynon D-180, a non ADS-B compliant transponder, no other instruments installed, what would it take to modify it, to make it ifr capable ?
Only looking for enroute IFR flying in Florida, nothing less than 1000ft ceiling.
I was not the builder on that RV so I cannot do the work, any estimate on time and cost, to do such modification ?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Do you have a Comm radio? The GTN635 does not have a comm nor do my options.

A Garmin GTN 375 will give you IFR GPS navigation and an ADS-B compliant transponder in one box at $8K
A GPS 175 will give you a GPS navigator, slightly smaller form factor than the 625 for $5K.
 
1. Anyone, including you, may work on an EAB. You can?t do the annual condx inspection.
2. ADSB has nothing to do with ifr. If you?re staying below 10,000?, not over the gulf, not in class B or C, you don?t have to have it.
3. Do you really mean enroute only? Then get a VOR (maybe a used SL30) and you?re done. For more flexibilty add a non-WAAS 400/430.
4. For backup get a GRT, Dynon, or Garmin mini-EFIS with built-in backup battery.
 
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RV10Pilot said:
Do you have a Comm radio? The GTN635 does not have a comm nor do my options.

A Garmin GTN 375 will give you IFR GPS navigation and an ADS-B compliant transponder in one box at $8K
A GPS 175 will give you a GPS navigator, slightly smaller form factor than the 625 for $5K.
Click to expand...

The 635 does have a comm radio... the 625 does not.

Just because you didn't build it does not mean that you cannot do the work. Sounds like this might be out a bit outside of your wheelhouse so would second the opinion of asking Jesse Saint to get you hooked up.
 
Thank you all for all your great advice. Ideally a the GTN375 sounds perfect.
I do have a radio available but wouldn't mind a backup. And this would take care of the ADS-B.
On the other hand, a VOR/ILS solution might just do it. As I mentioned, I only want to be able to file IFR for enroute. I am not interested to do low ceiling approaches in a single engine. I'd rather drive on those days.

One more question...How do you feel about using the synthetic horizon from foreflight with a stratus as a backup for enroute IFR ? Again, for Florida flying and no low ceiling.
I figure, it would most likely give me enough time to get out of the clouds, and cancel IFR at that point if something happens.
I am asking this question more out of ignorance than trying to be smart. I have lots of IFR experience, just not much in a piston single engine. Just trying to learn from all of you.

Once again, thanks for your help.
 
Go talk to Jessy Saint at X35 Dunnellon. He can give great advice and most likely provide installation guidance
 
HBpilot said:
On the other hand, a VOR/ILS solution might just do it. As I mentioned, I only want to be able to file IFR for enroute. I am not interested to do low ceiling approaches in a single engine. I'd rather drive on those days.
Click to expand...
If you just want to legally "get into the system" and nothing else, then the VAL-429 VOR/ILS solution is the least expensive way to go. BUT unless you will never fly within Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Jacksonville, Sarasota, Ft. Myers or any other "Rule Airspace" you really should consider an IFR solution that includes ADS-B out. "Pay me now, or pay me later."

Just my 2 cents.

:cool:
 
RV8iator said:
Not required for legal IFR.
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For standard aircraft, a heated pitot tube is required if it's going to be flown IFR as per Part 23 however some may argue it doesn’t apply to experimental aircraft and only Part 91.205 applies.

Part 91.205 lists the gyros and radios required in addition to the VFR equipment needed and doesn’t mention heated pitot tubes but also mentions standard category airplanes. Now the good stuff, what does your Ops Limits say regarding IFR flight?
 
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Pilot135pd said:
For standard aircraft, a heated pitot tube is required if it's going to be flown IFR as per Part 23 however some may argue it doesn’t apply to experimental aircraft and only Part 91.205 applies.

(4) Part 91.205 DOESN'T LIST a heated pitot tube as a necessary element required for IFR flight. It only lists the instrument panel gyros, instrumentation, and radios required in addition to the VFR equipment needed.
Click to expand...

The Operating Limitations define what is required for IFR and or night flight. Some Operating Limitations have the Limitation of DAY VFR ONLY.

Operating Limitations require that we meet requirements of 91.205 for night and or IFR operations.

Part 125 only applies to aircraft with 20 or more passengers. Part 23 only applies to Standard Category aircraft. Again, Operating Limitations have what requirements that our EXPERIMENTAL aircraft are required to meet. Latest version of FAA Order 8130.2 has the FAA Requirements for an amateur built experimental airworthiness certificate.
 
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GalinHdz said:
If you just want to legally "get into the system" and nothing else, then the VAL-429 VOR/ILS solution is the least expensive way to go. BUT unless you will never fly within Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Jacksonville, Sarasota, Ft. Myers or any other "Rule Airspace" you really should consider an IFR solution that includes ADS-B out. "Pay me now, or pay me later."

Just my 2 cents.

:cool:
Click to expand...

So I?m considering an ADS-B product that?s going to cost me $1300 then I add a VAL-429 for another $1800 for a total of $3100. What would you recommend that?s cheaper than that?
 
HBpilot said:
I was not the builder on that RV so I cannot do the work
Click to expand...

As others have mentioned, you can do the work yourself. I'm in an almost identical situation myself. I bought my RV as well, and while it was already minimally equipped for IFR, I'm working on improving its capabilities. I've found it to be an uphill battle learning everything required, but I've enjoyed the journey so far. I've done lots of reading, studying, and planning, and I'm almost ready to start cutting and stripping my first wires!

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is to check your Operating Limitations. Most that I have seen have language like, "After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with ? 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only." If yours lacks the underlined text (or something very similar), other folk smarter than me will have to advise what your options are for issuing new OLs.

EAA has an article that would answer most of your questions.
https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aircraft-building/intro-to-aircraft-building/frequently-asked-questions/equipping-a-homebuilt-for-ifr-operations
 
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RV8iator said:
Not required for legal IFR.
Click to expand...
Apparently there is some room for debate on this, but I can tell you in my own personal risk management profile, there is no way I want to be in any visible moisture without a heated pitot. So for my VFR to IFR conversion, that will be a non-negotiable include (I?ll add AOA while I?m at it).
 
Not yet mentioned, but you also gotta comply with marker lights etc for IFR/night flight......

The VAL unit other guys have mentions is slick, tho I'd personally go with a used SL30 and then youve got an extra panel radio to boot.....would cost more tho.
 
I have a d180 based panel. I would recommend a used garmin 400w. It gives all the ifr enroute and approach capabilities i will ever need. Can be bought for $3500-$4000 or possiblity the new gtn-175. This also gives you a waas ouput for adsb. I also have a d10a as a secondary attitude indicator and a trutrack vizion 385 autopilot that shoots beautiful coupled approaches. D10a used for under $1000 and the autopilot is $1800. The autopilot has its own ahrs system that can fly even if both dynon’s die which is unlikely since both have backup batteries installed. To be basic ifr, all you need is a single radio and appropriate nav radios for the intended route. A single vor system will work, but is probably not the level of equipment most pilots will accept. This entire panel cost $13k.

8-F5831-EB-2-CE8-47-EB-9-DAE-35-A4-FFC7292-B.jpg
 
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There have been a couple of posts highlighting the fact that the IFR equipment lists are specific to standard category aircraft. But realistically, does anyone have OLs that permit instrument flight without referencing 91.205(d)?
 
titanhank said:
I have a d180 based panel. I would recommend a used garmin 400w. It gives all the ifr enroute and approach capabilities i will ever need. Can be bought for $3500-$4000 or possiblity the new gtn-175. This also gives you a waas ouput for adsb.

......
Click to expand...

A 420w would also give you a second comm radio.

I currently have one for sale on that other big selling site....
 
The FARs, for EAB in IFR (assuming the usual op limits), are very generous. No mention of backups, dual power sources, or heated pitots. But that just means, just like many other choices, they?ve left it up to your judgement as to what is really needed for a reasonable level of safety. BTW, some EFIS boxes -Dynon and Garmin among them-require airspeed or gps data to reach an attitude solution. That may influence your heated/not heated pitot decision.
 
Well I just got back from the still useless North Dallas FSDO ( at least they’re consistent in being useless ). I got my replacement airworthiness certificate due to a registration number change and they didn’t include that I could fly if I have the equipment as per 91.205. He told me that he can’t change ops limits when replacing the aw certificate. Of course he showed me a highlighted piece of paper he printed but I showed him that had to do with replacements after a person losing his aw certificate and that wasn’t my case.

So he told me if I have everything needed for IFR flight then someone from their office has to come out to my plane and see it then they’ll add that to my op limitations. Anyone heard of this before ?
 
Pilot135pd said:
Well I just got back from the still useless North Dallas FSDO ( at least they?re consistent in being useless ). I got my replacement airworthiness certificate due to a registration number change and they didn?t include that I could fly if I have the equipment as per 91.205. He told me that he can?t change ops limits when replacing the aw certificate. Of course he showed me a highlighted piece of paper he printed but I showed him that had to do with replacements after a person losing his aw certificate and that wasn?t my case.

So he told me if I have everything needed for IFR flight then someone from their office has to come out to my plane and see it then they?ll add that to my op limitations. Anyone heard of this before ?
Click to expand...

Are you saying your original Op Limits did not have the phrase ?VFR only unless equipped as per 91.205...?? If so they must be pretty old; and he?s right, there are separate hoops to jump thru to get them changed. But if they did have this phrase, and the new ones don?t, then the FSDO screwed up in changing them; call them back.
 
No, my original ops limits say that if equipped I can fly at night and IFR but he chose to not include that even though I clearly told him about it. Now I'm grounded from flying my plane at night too !

I'm telling you, this North Dallas FSDO needs adult supervision quickly !!!

I'm preparing an email right now with copies of everything to send to Washington, I'm done dealing with these inept employees.
 
Instead of pushing up, why not let someone in real authority push down? You're an EAA member, right? Call 'em up, tell 'em your problem. They'll contact FAA HQ, and HQ will 'educate' the FSDO.
 
Oh we're way past that. This has been going on for over 9 months. It's already in Washington, I just needed to update them on today's fiasco. Email has gone out. Regarding EAA and AOPA I think that's the next step, thanks for the suggestion !
 
Pilot135pd said:
Oh we're way past that. This has been going on for over 9 months. It's already in Washington, I just needed to update them on today's fiasco. Email has gone out. Regarding EAA and AOPA I think that's the next step, thanks for the suggestion !
Click to expand...

Why not just give Mel Asbury a call, pay him a couple of bucks and let him handle it. He's the Guru for this kind of stuff.
 
Pilot135pd said:
He told me that he can?t change ops limits when replacing the aw certificate.
?
Click to expand...

And yet, they did just that. I understand the poster?s outrage. He shouldn?t have to pay anyone to get the FSDO to do what they said they did (but didn?t), which is nothing (with regard to the Op limits).
 
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