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AKZO prep

RV74ME

Well Known Member
As I finish up the empennage, I'm realizing by the time I get to the bigger parts (wings/fuse) that the rattle can is going to be impractical for me, not to mention I'm not confident it's doing anything for corrosion prevention (I am using SEM self etch on the tail).

So in researching other primers, it looks like the AKZO epoxy primer is pretty popular and I haven't read any negative things about it. My question for those that have used it....what kind of prep is necessary for using this primer? Can you get by with just cleaning (isopropyl/acetone/coleman fuel) and mechanical etch (scotchbrite pad), then spray on? I want to keep it simple but effective.

Thanks!
 
Prep

Steve
Congratulations on finishing the tail.
You need a mechanical bond so scuff with maroon scotch brite. Flat parts are easy to do with a random orbital sander. The scotch brite will stick to the velcro pad really well.
As for prep work, I'll probably get flamed but here goes.
The enemy of adhesion with aluminum is aluminum oxide. It forms within hours of exposure to air. The good part is it's very thin. Solvents and soaps won't remove it without some abrasion. There's only a couple ways to remove it and paint needs to be applied within a couple hours or it forms again.
1. Chemicals. Alumiprep is most common. It's an acid.
2. Mechanical. Scrub with a light abrasive pad and a soap. Bon Ami with grey scotch brite works very well.
So my prep is debur, scuff with maroon scotch brite & dimple. On paint day, put on nitrile gloves to keep skin oils off your parts. Scrub parts well with grey scotch brite and Bon Ami. Rinse well. Dry with clean paper towells. Just before spraying, wipe with a tack cloth.
YMMV. Other methods, I am sure, will work just as well. I like to encourage testing to arrive at what works best for you.
 
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I've been using AKZO and use maroon scotchbrite pads followed by wipe over with acetone. The heavy part of AKZO gets sludgy if it sits around too long. I highly recommend getting a pneumatic paint can shaker from Harbor freight, and mix up the heavy component well before using each time.
 
Akzo

I found using scotch brite is unnecessary if you acid wash I use a spray bottle spray parts let sit for about a minute then rinse I also primer every part in kit at once you can mark part with a sharpie if you like ,primer goes on transparent lacquer thinner ,acetone and the like spread contaminates and do nothing to remove oxidation once Akzo is cured it can be drilled, dimpled, cut and bent without damage. I use Alumaprep 33 diluted 3 to1 ,been doing it this way for over twenty years with good results.
 
Thanks all. Just what I was looking for.

Jerry,
So if I understand you correctly, you spray on the alumiprep (spray bottle), rinse, and then its ready for the primer?
 
Thanks all. Just what I was looking for.

Jerry,
So if I understand you correctly, you spray on the alumiprep (spray bottle), rinse, and then its ready for the primer?

Allow me to assist - degrease with acetone, then spray alumiprep, rinse with distilled water and yes, it is ready for primer when dry.

I turned to alodine for all my small parts and experimented with prep methods. Acetone was better than denatured alcohol (we don't know what denaturants they use) then acid (alumiprep) for 2 min. Finally rinse and alodine. You will go directly to primer, so that is ok.

I tried many methods of sanding that work, but the acid alone does the trick even for overly aged material. Finger prints and oils etc would leave a "message" to be seen in the alodine. That is what solidified the degrease step, a must do.

If you have every wiped off a lot of sharpie marks with alcohol, you will know that the degrease cloth, must be wet with solvent. Damp just smears the contaminant.
 
I know a lot of people are against aloding because it's a bad chemical, but it's a very simple step and it adds a later of protection. So I do it. Just submerge for 90 seconds after the acid etch step, rinse, and let dry. Then you are ready to prime.

Make sure you use a mask when mixing and spraying Akzo. It is nasty stuff too, smells really bad, and I'm sure it's bad for you. Even in a well ventilated area you need a mask. It's a great primer though. Rock hard when it dries and it dries fast if you don't put it on too thick.
 
I'm trying to keep the process as simple as possible while still offering some protection. But I dont want to go overboard, especially since i'm not on the coast and it will be hangared. Sounds like there are several ways to skin this cat. I'll have to try these techniques once the next kit comes in
 
I started out with the full process including the alodine step, and somewhere doing the wings, I dropped alodine. I didn't see any difference in the results. Less exposure to toxic stuff, and I didn't have to deal with disposal issues.

I did the acetone wipe down, alumiprep & scuff with scotchbrite pad, rinse, air dry, mark with blue sharpie (if needed) and shoot AKZO within a day, and let dry. On the interior, I followed with JetFlex WR within 24 hours for top coat of color.
 
AKZO Protection?

So I just got my AKZO delivered, still setting up shop to spray. The warnings were nasty (heart, liver, kidney, CNS, peripheral nervous damage, chemical burns to skin...)

Obviously full suit and face mask. Need good air.

So I've been looking hard for a fresh air respirator, but can't seem to find one under a grand online, and nobody sells one in town that I could test out first. So let's say I took the chance and used a filter & cartridge to protect me from these nasty carcinogens. Where/how could I verify that a filtered respirator will actually do the job against the chemicals in the AKZO? No odor doesn't necessarily mean safe....
 
So I've been looking hard for a fresh air respirator, but can't seem to find one under a grand online, and nobody sells one in town that I could test out first. So let's say I took the chance and used a filter & cartridge to protect me from these nasty carcinogens. Where/how could I verify that a filtered respirator will actually do the job against the chemicals in the AKZO? No odor doesn't necessarily mean safe....

I attended an EAA Sportair workshop recently in which my instructor (composites) said he'd modified a 3M or equivalent full face mask to have a connection to an oil-free air compressor with low PSI and flow control. He said to make sure the compressor is upwind of where you're going to work. He also said to make sure you seal up the filter cartridge ports on the mask very well. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have a decent filter between the compressor and the mask. I got my 3M full face mask for < $100 from Amazon, cartridges are about $20/set if you go that way. I think some of the lightweight air hose and fittings that Cleaveland Air Tools sells would be useful. Sounds like a solution that would probably cost less than $300. Heck, Blue Cross/Blue Shield might pay you to do it, cuz it's a lot less expensive than getting treated for cancer, COPD, or liver failure. :D
 
Hobby air

I attended an EAA Sportair workshop recently in which my instructor (composites) said he'd modified a 3M or equivalent full face mask to have a connection to an oil-free air compressor with low PSI and flow control. He said to make sure the compressor is upwind of where you're going to work. He also said to make sure you seal up the filter cartridge ports on the mask very well. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have a decent filter between the compressor and the mask. I got my 3M full face mask for < $100 from Amazon, cartridges are about $20/set if you go that way. I think some of the lightweight air hose and fittings that Cleaveland Air Tools sells would be useful. Sounds like a solution that would probably cost less than $300. Heck, Blue Cross/Blue Shield might pay you to do it, cuz it's a lot less expensive than getting treated for cancer, COPD, or liver failure. :D

You can get a complete Hobby Air positive pressure system for about the same.
Love mine. I put a fitting in the wall between the shop and house. Works great.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/cata...MIt56Ajafo5wIVyp-zCh18ywJ1EAQYASABEgLL2fD_BwE
 
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So I just got my AKZO delivered, still setting up shop to spray. The warnings were nasty (heart, liver, kidney, CNS, peripheral nervous damage, chemical burns to skin...)

Obviously full suit and face mask. Need good air.

So I've been looking hard for a fresh air respirator, but can't seem to find one under a grand online, and nobody sells one in town that I could test out first. So let's say I took the chance and used a filter & cartridge to protect me from these nasty carcinogens. Where/how could I verify that a filtered respirator will actually do the job against the chemicals in the AKZO? No odor doesn't necessarily mean safe....

cartridges are graded. The cheap ones are only for organic solvents. YOu need the high end ones for chemicals. I can't remember the grade name. The organic solvents are simply irritants. The killer is the isocyanates. It is not an organic solvent and the basic cartridge won't filter it out. It is mostly odorless.
 
cartridges are graded. The cheap ones are only for organic solvents. YOu need the high end ones for chemicals. I can't remember the grade name. The organic solvents are simply irritants. The killer is the isocyanates. It is not an organic solvent and the basic cartridge won't filter it out. It is mostly odorless.

Isocyanates aren't listed at all in the 3m filter application guide. Previous threads on vans have stated that the basic organic vapor filters are all you need. Any chance you can provide more details?
 
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