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Adding smoke system

N941WR

Legacy Member
A friend bought an RV-12 that is registered as an E-LSA.

Has asked if he can install a smoke system.

A couple of questions:

1. Is there an existing smoke system for the -12?
2. If the answer to #1 is no, has anyone added one and can you provide details?
3. Can he install one in his E-LSA or does he need to convert his -12 to an E-AB, which he doesn't want to do?
 
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Back when I had a Yak-52 I remember reading about one guy who made an oil tank out of 4? PVC pipe and used a DC aquarium aerator pump to feed a fitting on his exhaust collector ring to make a smoke system. I guess that?s why they call it ?EXPERIMENTAL ?!😁
 
...You can install it in your ELSA after you get your experimental ELSA Airworthiness certificate or install it as your building if your building EAB.

...
I don't understand that comment.

E-LSA stands for "Experimental - Light Sport Aircraft".

My question is, do they operate the same way as an E-AB; meaning, can he had the smoke system without converting his E-LSA to an E-AB or must it be approved by Van's?
 
He can add it to his E-LSA without having to convert to E-AB. Which is a good thing, since you CANNOT convert an E-LSA to E-AB.

PS... If he does add a smoke system, have him post here and show how he did it. It’s on my list of things I’d love to do one of these days. :)
 
Like DaleB says; you cannot convert ELSA to EAB. After certification, one may perform any modifications to an ELSA that doesn't take the aircraft out of LSA parameters.
 
Like DaleB says; you cannot convert ELSA to EAB. After certification, one may perform any modifications to an ELSA that doesn't take the aircraft out of LSA parameters.

Thanks Dale & Mel, we have discussed the pro's and con's of converting his -12 to an E-AB (including the no going back clause), I have recommended against it, and he agrees. However, what I don't know are the rules surrounding modifying an E-LSA.

Can he install it himself and note it in the logbooks, same as an E-AB, or must an A&P do the install and document it? The owner is not the builder, not that it matters with an E-LSA.
 
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2. If the answer to #1 is no, has anyone added one and can you provide details?

Bill, I'm slowly installing a custom made 4-port system on a 912S in an S-7. Might have a report for you in a few months.
 
Thanks Dale & Mel, we have discussed the pro's and con's of converting his -12 to an E-AB (including the no going back clause), I have recommended against it, and he agrees. However, what I don't know are the rules surrounding modifying an E-LSA.

Can he install it himself and note it in the logbooks, same as an E-AB, or must an A&P do the install and document it? The owner is not the builder, not that it matters with an E-LSA.

The rules for E-AB and E-LSA are almost the same. Anyone can perform any maintenance, repair or alteration to the airplane, regardless of what certificate they do or do not hold. My dog Buddy could perform maintenance on my plane, if only he had opposable thumbs and knew how to read a torque wrench. I'm not 100% certain what log book entries are required other than the condition inspection, but it's certainly a good idea to note the work in the log.

There are a couple of "quirks" to E-LSA. One is that anything that takes the airplane outside the limits of an LSA -- gross weight increase, in-flight adjustable prop, etc -- means you basically have a large airplane-shaped paperweight. It's no longer a legal LSA (and never can be again), and there is no path to E-AB. It simply cannot be done. You can convert an S-LSA to E-LSA, but that's it.

The other quirk is that, unlike E-AB, an owner who did not build the airplane can obtain the repairman certificate with inspection privileges (LSR-I), which allows him or her to perform the condition inspection. That is the ONLY thing the LSR-I certificate does... allow you to do the CI on that specific airplane, listed by serial number. it's not required for anything else.

Hope that helps. I have a rather lengthy article about LSA certificates and rules that I keep threatening to finish and submit for publication, if I ever get the time.
 
The other quirk is that, unlike E-AB, an owner who did not build the airplane can obtain the repairman certificate with inspection privileges (LSR-I), which allows him or her to perform the condition inspection. That is the ONLY thing the LSR-I certificate does... allow you to do the CI on that specific airplane, listed by serial number. it's not required for anything else.

So, why does the the endorsement issued by FAA say "Repairman Light Sport Aircraft" instead of "Repairman Certificate with Inspection Privileges (LSR-I)"? It's just odd that this piece of plastic doesn't mention "inspection" in the title and that you have to flip it over and read the fine print...
 
For the few who are insure about Repairman ratings there are two.

“inspection” or “maintenance.” The rating is identified on the repairman certificate with the appropriate limitation.

Inspection Rating
The owner of an ELSA may apply for a repairman certificate with an inspection rating after completion of the required 16 hour training course. The training must be for the same class of aircraft for which the owner seeks inspection privileges. This rating allows an aircraft owner to perform the required annual condition inspection on an aircraft that he or she owns, which has been issued an airworthiness certificate under 21.191. The aircraft will be identified on the owner’s repairman certificate by registration and serial number. If an individual owns several similar makes and models of LSA or owns an LSA in another class, that individual will be issued a repairman certificate that lists each aircraft that the repairman is eligible to inspect if the required training is completed.

Maintenance Rating
Any individual may apply for a repairman (LSA) certificate with a maintenance rating after completion of the required training for a specific class of LSA. The length of required training varies depending on the class of aircraft for which the owner seeks privileges. A repairman with a maintenance rating may perform maintenance and required inspections on SLSA within the class of his or her rating. A repairman may also hold several aircraft class ratings on his or her repairman certificate. Each rating will also allow the individual to perform the annual condition inspection for LSA within that class.

I know a lot of us know this but there are some that don't.
 
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